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UT Revisions, Part 1?

MarvelFanatic119 said:
So Undertale's going back to tier 7 should LordXcano's calc is accepted? What about Speed?
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My earlier suggestion on Perp's blog was "At least Massively Hypersonic+, probably higher" due to MHS+ being the highest calced but other potentially better speed feats being hard to 100% quantify.

I guess characters like Sans would get SoL attacks.
 
Still don't really agree but apparently the results are more or less the same, and I've already made all of my points as to why I don't believe the logic's there so there's not much more point in needlessly continuing an argument

One second, I'll get a blog up
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
My earlier suggestion on Perp's blog was "At least Massively Hypersonic+, probably higher" due to MHS+ being the highest calced but other potentially better speed feats being hard to 100% quantify.

I guess characters like Sans would get SoL attacks.
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MHS+ Undertale I can get behind, but where the heck does guys like Sans end up having SoL attacks? Isn't that a HUGE jump in Speed?
 
SoL attacks != SoL reactions

The modern American military has SoL attacks
 
@LordXcano

I didn't say it scaled to his reactions.

@MarvelFanatic

I don't see why they would. They act like the other lasers in the game, which even Mettaton can use.
 
@Azzy I wasn't saying you did. I was replying to Marvel but you posted while I was typing so it didn't show.
 
I'd say probably, they behave fairly similarly to lasers and there's other other legit lasers that behave similarly in the game as well, so I see no reason to assume otherwise.
 
We can't assume a generalized speed either, sorry

That was literally exactly one of the problems with the last version. Gimme a second.
 
Doesn't matter. The Tsunderplane calc is done and that's all we need. Papyrus would scale to that, presumably.
 
Aah, yes, that's next on the list isn't it? Aight, I'll be getting to it, just had one to finagle with really fast as I recently did.

(Thanku)
 
ThePerpetual said:
Aah, yes, that's next on the list isn't it? Aight, I'll be getting to it, just had one to finagle with really fast as I recently did.
(Thanku)
Click to expand...
YASS! can`t wait for FFXIll upgrade when you do it :D
 
Btw, did we ever decide which value we were using for Frisk's wall bust? Honestly I'm leaning towards pulverization as weird as that sounds, even small fragments left over would be scattered all over the doorway past it and all, and none of this accounts for the speed at which the mass was blown away by the bust so it's a bit of a low-ball in the first place.
 
ThePerpetual said:
Btw, did we ever decide which value we were using for Frisk's wall bust? Honestly I'm leaning towards pulverization as weird as that sounds, even small fragments left over would be scattered all over the doorway past it and all, and none of this accounts for the speed at which the mass was blown away by the bust so it's a bit of a low-ball in the first place.
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hmmm, the wall dissapearing seems more like a secret contraption than a destruction feat. The clue leading Frisk to it even says to "Check" the wall not "Destroy" it. It's like in one of those old-school video games where something dissapearing (eg. doors in the older Zelda games) is equivalent to a contraption. The "check" is meant in a "check for a button" kind of way, not a "hit it to destroy it" way.

Even if he did destroy it, it seems more like a graphical limitations than actual pulverization.
 
I think so?

At any rate, literally nothing suggests that any switch was pulled or anything of the sort, and Frisk is fairly blatantly superhuman even without determination regardless: what with the being able to survive Hotland, balance 29 hot dogs on their head, get up from falling at terminal velocity without really being hurt at all (not a single point of damage at Lv 1, with no items equipped), et cetera. Sans would know that, and again he's almost assuredly the one who dropped the hint since we know for a fact he A: more or less follows you your entire journey, B: can see into other timelines and thus already knows the answer, C: is the only monster heavily associated with the telescopes, et cetera. Besides, even were it a basic hint left for other monsters, they are superhuman and thus able to bust down walls, as well, so not really seeing that argument.

Graphical limitations don't really restrict feats from being feats when logic contradicts said graphical limitations, Snake's P-Bomb calculation is a prime example of this. Not really seeing that as an argument in and of itself.
 
Okay, so are all the calcs still considered legit?
 
ThePerpetual said:
I think so?
At any rate, literally nothing suggests that any switch was pulled or anything of the sort, and Frisk is fairly blatantly superhuman even without determination regardless: what with the being able to survive Hotland, balance 29 hot dogs on their head, get up from falling at terminal velocity without really being hurt at all (not a single point of damage at Lv 1, with no items equipped), et cetera. Sans would know that, and again he's almost assuredly the one who dropped the hint since we know for a fact he A: more or less follows you your entire journey, B: can see into other timelines and thus already knows the answer, C: is the only monster heavily associated with the telescopes, et cetera. Besides, even were it a basic hint left for other monsters, they are superhuman and thus able to bust down walls, as well, so not really seeing that argument.

Graphical limitations don't really restrict feats from being feats when logic contradicts said graphical limitations, Snake's P-Bomb calculation is a prime example of this. Not really seeing that as an argument in and of itself.
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Wall level Firsk I'm completely fine with. Makes perfect sense using the feats. But I wouldn't say the wall thing counts a destruciton feat. We all know Link is above wall level but we still don't take doors opening by dissapearing in the old zelda games as a destruction feat.
 
Not entirely true actually

At any rate, there's actually context here so that problem is circumnavigated entirely.
 
The whole thing with Legend of Zelda. If there was context implying that he was breaking down the doors rather than them just being secret passageways or something along those lines, then whether or not they're pixelated is a touch irrelevant, and in this there's a impact sound effect as the screen shakes a bit when the wall goes down. That seems to imply that something happened other than the wall somehow disappeared when Frisk walked up to it just because.
 
ThePerpetual said:
The whole thing with Legend of Zelda. If there was context implying that he was breaking down the doors rather than them just being secret passageways or something along those lines, then whether or not they're pixelated is a touch irrelevant, and in this there's a impact sound effect as the screen shakes a bit when the wall goes down. That seems to imply that something happened other than the wall somehow disappeared when Frisk walked up to it just because.
Click to expand...
There's not other context either in Undertale expect, "He has free-falling feats that were calculated as wall level therefore he should physically be able to do it". Which tbh, Link does too. The impact sound if anything could be the contraption working and moving the inner workings, like... you know... in Zelda. The word "Check" implies nothing of destruction. If it was that obvious Sans would have said "destroy"/"hit" etc. "Check" implies to examine something.

Not that it matters as we seem to both agree that Frisk is at least Wall level with very little determination.
 
Everyone's more or less okay with it from what I can tell so really whenver I find the time? Might grab Azzy to help out with that
 
Just a quick question, since Sans doesn't have a "this article is under revision", is he going to get downgraded to MHS+ speed wise?
 
I think Crazy's calc is probably better since it doesn't assume the planes are the size of actual planes, and if we're assuming monsters are actually the size of what they're based on, couldn't we have skipped all this for the fact that Vulkin is, well, a volcano?
 
The difference is that Vulkin is a monster that looks like a volcano, whereas Tsunderplane appears to actually be a plane possessed by a monster's SOUL (it doesn't turn to dust when killed, but instead crashes and explodes, something only it and Mettaton do). But that's besides the point, since so far, I don't believe anyone has done a calc getting a middling size for Tsunderplane by scaling it to the bullets, which appear next to it in the battle.
 
Also, I actually can't believe I forgot to mention this, but even just using the bullets and our value for lightning, the result was ~1.7 kilotons, which is Small Town, not MCB. Just letting everyone know since we use a different energy scale than the OBD.
 
@Azzy While I understand what you mean with it being a plane and not a monster resembling a plane I have to say... why would the Underground's planes be anything like ours? It's not like they need them for transportation. You get around the whole place on foot in a day. Plus having a whole plane just flying around in such a small area seems a bit... odd? Especially with all the hallways and such that a plane would not be able to fit through.
 
But that begs the question of what Tsunderplane carries, since no monsters seen are that tiny.

Though could be answered by the fact that the game itself doesn't care much about logic, most of the time.
 
@XCano There's very clearly more to the underground that we never explore: all the forests way off in the distance in the snowy area is simply one instance of this being evident.
 
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