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Uryu Ishida Vs Itachi Uchiha
- Thread starter HokageMangaVox
- Start date
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Pretty sure Genjutsu isnt limited by power, otherwise Itachi wouldnt have been capable of putting characters like Naruto under Genjutsu. As well as Uryu having no resistance to mind hax so regardless of power it's working on him.
Since when is the Almighty useless on Uryu's Antithesis?
Since when is the Almighty useless on Uryu's Antithesis?
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@Clorox92
When did that happen?
When did that happen?
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Itachi. Even if Uryu could tell he was under an illusion, with Itachi's Tsukiyomi, he can control perception of time. As an example he made Kakashi experience 3 days of Torture in 1 second. By time Uryu realizes he's in a Genjutsu, he can already be dead. Also, even Base Ginjo could Harm Uryu. Quincy aren't like Shinigami. Uryu can easily be taken out by the likes of Itachi.
Antithesis is usless against Tsukiyomi when it controls time perception at such a level.
Antithesis is usless against Tsukiyomi when it controls time perception at such a level.
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It has shown multiple times tho. I gave the proves.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
1) Jugram which possessed The Almighty said he saw everything but surprised with Uryuu's action.
http://www.***********.net/bleach/661/9
http://www.***********.net/bleach/661/10
2) Like Jugram said before, he saw everything but he didn't know Uryuu's ability, The Antithesis.
http://www.***********.net/bleach/679/8
http://www.***********.net/bleach/679/10
3) He admitted that The Antithesis is the perfect counter against The Almighty
http://www.***********.net/bleach/679/11
4) Yhwach with The Almighty but it failed to see Uryuu's arrow.
http://www.***********.net/bleach/684/11
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@Clorox92
1.) You forgot that Jugram's version of the Almighty is not on Yhwach's level and thus he cannot see as many futures as Yhwach.
2.) Refer to 1.
3.) All he said was that Ishida could oppose the Almighty and then refused to elborate on what exactly he meant. Even Ishida didn't know what he meant. This never got an actual explanation which can be blamed on the fact that Bleach was being rushed to meet a deadline. It's a plot point that went nowhere.
4. Yhwach is not infallible. He basically admits this right before Ichigo cuts him in half. He already had knowledge of that outcome but had dimissed it as a dream. That would explain why he didn't notice Ishida.
There is no straight evidence that Ishida's Antithesis prevents Yhwach from predicting him but there is evidence that Yhwach can have a bias when using the Almighty.
1.) You forgot that Jugram's version of the Almighty is not on Yhwach's level and thus he cannot see as many futures as Yhwach.
2.) Refer to 1.
3.) All he said was that Ishida could oppose the Almighty and then refused to elborate on what exactly he meant. Even Ishida didn't know what he meant. This never got an actual explanation which can be blamed on the fact that Bleach was being rushed to meet a deadline. It's a plot point that went nowhere.
4. Yhwach is not infallible. He basically admits this right before Ichigo cuts him in half. He already had knowledge of that outcome but had dimissed it as a dream. That would explain why he didn't notice Ishida.
There is no straight evidence that Ishida's Antithesis prevents Yhwach from predicting him but there is evidence that Yhwach can have a bias when using the Almighty.
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@TheC2
It was Uryuu's assumption and he didn't know that his ability can be useful against The Almighty. But it changed when Jugram said that he was right to stop Uryuu because The Antithesis can be a problem against The Almighty. Jugram said he saw everything, on how Yhwach effortlessly destroyed Ichigo so he didn't need to be there yet he couldn't see his Uryuu's future and know his ability? Weird.
And again Yhwach possesed The Almighty and he used it during the battle with Aizen and Ichigo so he should know that Uryuu was there too but why did he fail to notice him? Still you explanation still doesn't make make any sense.
It was Uryuu's assumption and he didn't know that his ability can be useful against The Almighty. But it changed when Jugram said that he was right to stop Uryuu because The Antithesis can be a problem against The Almighty. Jugram said he saw everything, on how Yhwach effortlessly destroyed Ichigo so he didn't need to be there yet he couldn't see his Uryuu's future and know his ability? Weird.
And again Yhwach possesed The Almighty and he used it during the battle with Aizen and Ichigo so he should know that Uryuu was there too but why did he fail to notice him? Still you explanation still doesn't make make any sense.
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@Clorox92
You forgot that Ishida said that Jurgram hadn't fully grasped the powers and that's why he was surprised to see Ishida.
http://www.***********.net/bleach/661/10
You also just went back on one of your previous statements. You claimed that Ishida's Antithesis makes it so that the Almighty's future vision doesn't work on him. But then you say that Jurgram's Almighty can predict him and his actions and that's why he was there to stop Ishida.
Make up your mind. Either the Almighty can account for Ishida's actions and, thus, you're entire argument of him negating precog makes no sense. Or, like Ishida himself stated, that Jugram hadn't mastered the power, which has nothing to do with Ishida's Antithesis in the first place.
Yhwach was sent a vision from Jurgram, while he slept, showing him the moment when Ichigo would cut him in half and kill him. But he had dimissed that as him simply dreaming.
http://www.***********.net/bleach/672/11
http://www.***********.net/bleach/684/16
http://www.***********.net/bleach/684/17
This shows that while Yhwach may see a future, he may not interept it as such and thus, due to his own failing, may not account for anything.
You forgot that Ishida said that Jurgram hadn't fully grasped the powers and that's why he was surprised to see Ishida.
http://www.***********.net/bleach/661/10
You also just went back on one of your previous statements. You claimed that Ishida's Antithesis makes it so that the Almighty's future vision doesn't work on him. But then you say that Jurgram's Almighty can predict him and his actions and that's why he was there to stop Ishida.
Make up your mind. Either the Almighty can account for Ishida's actions and, thus, you're entire argument of him negating precog makes no sense. Or, like Ishida himself stated, that Jugram hadn't mastered the power, which has nothing to do with Ishida's Antithesis in the first place.
Yhwach was sent a vision from Jurgram, while he slept, showing him the moment when Ichigo would cut him in half and kill him. But he had dimissed that as him simply dreaming.
http://www.***********.net/bleach/672/11
http://www.***********.net/bleach/684/16
http://www.***********.net/bleach/684/17
This shows that while Yhwach may see a future, he may not interept it as such and thus, due to his own failing, may not account for anything.
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@TheC2
Uryuu did say that Jugram hadn't fully control The Almighty but that was his first assumption. Even me myself thought this at first. But something weird happened when Jugram had no idea at all about Uryuu's true ability despite having The Almighty. He supposedly to know The Antithesis considering the power of The Almighty to look into the future, right? Then, Uryuu explained the ability and it made Jugram realized that he was right to stop Uryuu instead of helping Yhwach. And again, Uryuu didn't know that his Antithesis can counter The Almighty until Jugram told him later. Then, this makes me realized that it wasn't Jugram who failed to fully used The Almighty but the Antithesis somehow disrupted the vision. Get it?
Yeah, Yhwach's dream was actually Jugram's vision when he possessed The Almighty. It makes me think that why did Jugram can see the later event (Ichigo slashed Yhwach) but not Uryuu's future, his current opponent who stood right in front of him. And then, Yhwach got The Almighty back and used it multiple times during his battle against Ichigo and Aizen. Heck he even said that he saw every single future but why there's no Uryuu parts in his vision? You can say that Jugram may not fully grasped the power of The Almighty but this is Yhwach, the rightful owner. Any explanation on why Uryuu's part always missed from the vision? That's why I confidently said that this may be connected to the power of Antithesis.
Uryuu did say that Jugram hadn't fully control The Almighty but that was his first assumption. Even me myself thought this at first. But something weird happened when Jugram had no idea at all about Uryuu's true ability despite having The Almighty. He supposedly to know The Antithesis considering the power of The Almighty to look into the future, right? Then, Uryuu explained the ability and it made Jugram realized that he was right to stop Uryuu instead of helping Yhwach. And again, Uryuu didn't know that his Antithesis can counter The Almighty until Jugram told him later. Then, this makes me realized that it wasn't Jugram who failed to fully used The Almighty but the Antithesis somehow disrupted the vision. Get it?
Yeah, Yhwach's dream was actually Jugram's vision when he possessed The Almighty. It makes me think that why did Jugram can see the later event (Ichigo slashed Yhwach) but not Uryuu's future, his current opponent who stood right in front of him. And then, Yhwach got The Almighty back and used it multiple times during his battle against Ichigo and Aizen. Heck he even said that he saw every single future but why there's no Uryuu parts in his vision? You can say that Jugram may not fully grasped the power of The Almighty but this is Yhwach, the rightful owner. Any explanation on why Uryuu's part always missed from the vision? That's why I confidently said that this may be connected to the power of Antithesis.
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@Clorox92
No.
Because of something called Occam's razor. You're explanation assumes a lot of things that have no true proof. You're assuming that the Antithesis gives Ishida an ability that he has never been stated to have. Ishida claims that Jugram's Almighty isn't as good as Yhwach's and Jugram doesn't refute that, IIRC. The fact Jugram didn't know anything about Ishida's Antithesis and only says he was right to stop him after he's suffered through it and Ishida explained it to him, supports that. Even then, again, he doesn't elborate on what exactly he means either.
Antithesis is Attack Negation and Redirection. That's it. Ishida never used Antithesis on Yhwach. Ever. So we have no idea how truly effective it would have been or what the interaction between Anthithesis and the Almighty would have been like.
As for why Yhwach didn't see Ishida, it's called PIS. Plot-Induced Stupidity: something that happens only because the plot demanded it. It's that simple. It happened in face of the logic presented to us. Yhwach should have seen it coming but seemingly did not. THere are only two beings that the Almighty can never see the future of: Mimihagi and the Soul King. It's due to bad writing not because Ishida has some super-duper power that he's never said to have.
You really think that Ishida is immune to precog? Take it to Content Revision and see what they say. I will even participate. Because if people really believe that Ishida is immune to precog, then that's a big deal.
No.
Because of something called Occam's razor. You're explanation assumes a lot of things that have no true proof. You're assuming that the Antithesis gives Ishida an ability that he has never been stated to have. Ishida claims that Jugram's Almighty isn't as good as Yhwach's and Jugram doesn't refute that, IIRC. The fact Jugram didn't know anything about Ishida's Antithesis and only says he was right to stop him after he's suffered through it and Ishida explained it to him, supports that. Even then, again, he doesn't elborate on what exactly he means either.
Antithesis is Attack Negation and Redirection. That's it. Ishida never used Antithesis on Yhwach. Ever. So we have no idea how truly effective it would have been or what the interaction between Anthithesis and the Almighty would have been like.
As for why Yhwach didn't see Ishida, it's called PIS. Plot-Induced Stupidity: something that happens only because the plot demanded it. It's that simple. It happened in face of the logic presented to us. Yhwach should have seen it coming but seemingly did not. THere are only two beings that the Almighty can never see the future of: Mimihagi and the Soul King. It's due to bad writing not because Ishida has some super-duper power that he's never said to have.
You really think that Ishida is immune to precog? Take it to Content Revision and see what they say. I will even participate. Because if people really believe that Ishida is immune to precog, then that's a big deal.
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I wonder why genjutsu is being referred to as a wank jutsu or NLF when it has worked on stronger opponents than the user before.
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@Burning
Probably because of what you just. Genjutsu, and illusions in general, are a type of hax that you need to have some kind of counter for it.
The issue really seems to be that people think that Ishida's Antithesis can counter anything when all we ever seen it do is reverse physical damage back at his attacker while healing him. Basically, peole are turning the Antithesis into a NLF while claiming that the general premise of genjutsu is a NLF, which isn't even the case.
Probably because of what you just. Genjutsu, and illusions in general, are a type of hax that you need to have some kind of counter for it.
The issue really seems to be that people think that Ishida's Antithesis can counter anything when all we ever seen it do is reverse physical damage back at his attacker while healing him. Basically, peole are turning the Antithesis into a NLF while claiming that the general premise of genjutsu is a NLF, which isn't even the case.
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My vote is for Itachi.
-Sufficient Skill and Abilities/Hax
-Sufficient AP (Uryu's Durability is Low as a quincy without Blut (Fatally Injured by Base Ginjou-Pre Stealing Ichigo's power))
In my opinion, its either Itachi wins or Hax Stomp Via Genjutsu.
-Sufficient Skill and Abilities/Hax
-Sufficient AP (Uryu's Durability is Low as a quincy without Blut (Fatally Injured by Base Ginjou-Pre Stealing Ichigo's power))
In my opinion, its either Itachi wins or Hax Stomp Via Genjutsu.
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