Upgrades for Black Sperm and Genos

[Tural2004]

An AP calc for Black/Golden Sperm and a speed calc for Genos. Low ends seem fine IMO.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Your calcs aren't even accepted yet

 

[Tural2004]

How to get them accepted?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Put them in the evaluations thread or ask calc members

 

[Tural2004]

Thanks

 

[Qawsedf234]

As I said in the general thread, the BS calc isn't useable at the moment and even if it was it would at best be Environmental Destruction.

If you want 6-C GS you would need to scale him to Atomic Samurai and Homeless Emperor.

 

[King]

As I said in the general thread, the BS calc isn't useable at the moment and even if it was it would at best be Environmental Destruction.

If you want 6-C GS you would need to scale him to Atomic Samurai and Homeless Emperor.

It shouldn't be Environmental destruction as he can literally cause that much damage. If he can already trample entire cities then why shouldn't it be accepted as his AP? You would need a comparable or greater level of AP in order to stop the wave of BS.
6 C GS is pretty reasonable. He isn't scaling to Atomic Samurai as it was only after using the sun blade (which is a different being entirely) was he able to cut off GS's arm. So, Atomic Samurai isn't 6 C, the sun blade is. Plus, where was it ever implied that GS and homeless Emperor are even remotely comparable? We just saw that AS with the sun blade easily defeated HE.

6 C GS becomes even more believable once you realize that he has been fighting almost all of the s class along with the council of swordsman for quite some time. Darkshine and and characters like Silverfang are high 7 As already and they weren't able to defeat him. So, he should scale above them.

In the end, it's up to the calc members to decide whether it should be added or not.

 

[Qawsedf234]

It shouldn't be Environmental destruction as he can literally cause that much damage.

But not on single target. Only the entire wave would yield that result.

A hurricane is Tier 7 or 6, but a human isn't Tier 7 or 6 for not dying to it. Because the surface area difference.

would need a comparable or greater level of AP in order to stop the wave of BS.

If you stopped the entire wave at once.... still no.

You just need to kill them with an attack and considering their terrible durability that could be accomplished with enough AoE or just by blowing away a section of them.

Plus, where was it ever implied that GS and homeless Emperor are even remotely comparable? We just saw that AS with the sun blade easily defeated HE.

The only way to legitimately get 6-C is Giant Sphere HE < Sun Blade < GS < Special Sun Blade attack.

6 C GS becomes even more believable once you realize that he has been fighting almost all of the s class along with the council of swordsman for quite some time.

That's not enough to upscale since none of the S-Class currently in the fight are 6-C or in peak condition.

Silverfang are high 7 As

Silverfang upscales to High 7-A with a mountain of upscaling. GS doesn't have the scaling chain to support a 4.3x AP upgrade. Especially when he's failed to one tap people.

 

[King]

But not on single target. Only the entire wave would yield that result.

A hurricane is Tier 7 or 6, but a human isn't Tier 7 or 6 for not dying to it. Because the surface area difference.

If you stopped the entire wave at once.... still no.

You just need to kill them with an attack and considering their terrible durability that could be accomplished with enough AoE or just by blowing away a section of them.

The only way to legitimately get 6-C is Giant Sphere HE < Sun Blade < GS < Special Sun Blade attack.

That's not enough to upscale since none of the S-Class currently in the fight are 6-C or in peak condition.

Silverfang upscales to High 7-A with a mountain of upscaling. GS doesn't have the scaling chain to support a 4.3x AP upgrade. Especially when he's failed to one tap people.

You are forgetting that an individual Black S, although weak compared to s class, is still superhuman and they have enough strength to hurt atomic samurai as well as stagger metal bat. Plus, he can also achieve a large size by his body size manipulation.

The scaling chain actually holds true. We literally saw Sun Blade destroy HE's energy ball, so sun blade is definitely above HE. Sun blade was then blocked by Golden Sperm who was then defeated by the special attack. So it stands like this : HE orb < Sun blade < GS durability < Sun blade special attack

None of them? Both Darkshine (he didn't take any significant damage as stated by GS) and Silverfang were both in their proper physical condition. Silver fang even states that he can't hold off BS for long.

Mountain of upscaling? Silverfang was already Mountain Level + by defeating elder centipede. This was without the Awakening Breath. It is not exaggerated as you are saying it to be. Plus, it's even on his wiki page. GS has all the scaling that is needed to put him at 6 C. GS recently one shot Darkshine casually and he wasn't able to do anything in order to defend against GS's punch. He also easily defeated Fuhrer Ugly who was previously able to match darkshine's punch.
Note: 4.3X AP gap isn't enough to One TAP people. There is a huge difference between tapping and punching.



You're looking down on him, aren't you?

 

[Qawsedf234]

You are forgetting that an individual Black S

That's not individual Black Sperm. That's still a cluster of hundreds of cells. A singular Black Sperm is so weak it being considered a wolf threat is questionable.

None of them?

Yes, because this is what my comment said

That's not enough to upscale since none of the S-Class currently in the fight are 6-C or in peak condition.

The or separates the two claims in my sentence. None of the S-Class are 6-C and those that are above 6-C are not in peak condition, like Tornado or Genos. So there's not scaling to be had.

Silverfang was already Mountain Level + by defeating elder centipede.

Note: 4.3X AP gap isn't enough to One TAP people. There is a huge difference between tapping and punching.

Silverfang is High 7-A based on scaling to Elder Centipede who molted which scaled from his previous form and Goketsu and then with an Awakening boost all added together. With all of that we considered that he clears the small 1.3x to 1.2x AP gap between what he scales to and the 1 Gigaton minimum rating.

GS has none of that and you're suggesting he upscales to 6-C because he's vaguely stronger than people. It doesn't work like that.

 

[King]

That's not individual Black Sperm. That's still a cluster of hundreds of cells. A singular Black Sperm is so weak it being considered a wolf threat is questionable.

Yes, because this is what my comment said

The or separates the two claims in my sentence. None of the S-Class are 6-C and those that are above 6-C are not in peak condition, like Tornado or Genos. So there's not scaling to be had.


Silverfang is High 7-A based on scaling to Elder Centipede who molted which scaled from his previous form and Goketsu and then with an Awakening boost all added together. With all of that we considered that he clears the small 1.3x to 1.2x AP gap between what he scales to and the 1 Gigaton minimum rating.

GS has none of that and you're suggesting he upscales to 6-C because he's vaguely stronger than people. It doesn't work like that.

What? Wolf level? Of course, an individual black sperm isn't enough to put a dent on the s class, but a few thousand of them demolished Atomic Samurai who is already an accepted 7 A via calcs.

Defeating one 6 C or four 7 A's at the same time is the same thing. You just need to stomp a High 7 A in order to be considered a 6 C right? Golden S has been doing that continuously. Defeated VFU, stomped Darkshine. Defended against the Sun blade's initial attack and was about to overpower through Bang's defenses. What other feats do you need after this?

Silverfang is 7 A based on Darkshine. Darkshine was able to (Effortlessly cracked the metal walls of the Hero Association). From here, both of them massively upscale. Bang was able to go toe to toe with an evolved Garou who earlier defeated Darkshine. "At Least 7 A " already refers to a low ball. It's a minimum value and that he could possibly be higher.


I already said that he is massively stronger than both Darkshine and Vommited Fuhrer Ugly. If that's not enough proof, then I don't think anything else will satisfy you.
It shouldn't work the way you are describing it. GS is not gonna suddenly come up and say that he is 4 times stronger than Darkshine. That'll not happen and we can only base our ratings on estimates. So bear with the current scaling chain.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Of course, an individual black sperm isn't enough to put a dent on the s class, but a few thousand of them demolished Atomic Samurai who is already an accepted 7 A via calcs.

That's not an individual Black Sperm. Those are still bodies with hundreds of cells in them. A single cell Black Sperm is incredibly weak based off of our current understanding. He was supremely confident that a dog would be able to kill him with a single cell.

You just need to stomp a High 7 A in order to be considered a 6 C right?

No. That just makes you a higher level of High 7-A. You need a stated power multiplier or a enormous scaling chain to overcome a 4.3x AP gap for a tier upgrade. You don't get it for failing to one shot people who are at most 7-A or High 7-A.

If that's not enough proof

Its not. We don't upscale SnyderCut Superman to 6-C from Steppenwolf and his AP gap is under 3x because he lacks the sheer mountain of scaling chain evidence.

 

[King]

That's not an individual Black Sperm. Those are still bodies with hundreds of cells in them. A single cell Black Sperm is incredibly weak based off of our current understanding. He was supremely confident that a dog would be able to kill him with a single cell.

No. That just makes you a higher level of High 7-A. You need a stated power multiplier or a enormous scaling chain to overcome a 4.3x AP gap for a tier upgrade. You don't get it for failing to one shot people who are at most 7-A or High 7-A.

Its not. We don't upscale SnyderCut Superman to 6-C from Steppenwolf and his AP gap is under 3x because he lacks the sheer mountain of scaling chain evidence.

There's a thread going on in the calcs group regarding characters with large size and KE. It is completely fine to use characters who are more than large size 0 and their KE in order for their AP to be calculated.

There is nothing called High High 7 A. "GS is not gonna suddenly come up and say that he is 4 times stronger than Darkshine. That'll not happen and we can only base our ratings on estimates. So bear with the current scaling chain." This.
Failing to one shot? He casually punched Darkshine and called him far too weak.
If you have any problems with the calc, state it. otherwise, this can be accepted.
BTW, what about the speed upgrade for Genos?

 

[King]

Why hasn't the OP not posted this in the evaluations thread?

 

[Qawsedf234]

It is completely fine to use characters who are more than large size 0 and their KE in order for their AP to be calculated.

But the issue here is what I said before. You're doing the entire wave, which is Environmental destruction along with a calc stacked speed, then scaling that to a character who has no showings close to it at the moment.

There is nothing called High High 7 A

You're confusing our terminology. John Wick and Jason Voorhees are 9-B, but Jason is a higher degree of 9-B than John Wick is. A High 7-A can defeat another High 7-A and not be 6-C, just a higher level of High 7-A.

He casually punched Darkshine and called him far too weak.

Darkshine is still conscious and he failed to kill Furher Ugly.

If you have any problems with the calc, state it

I.... I have.

BTW, what about the speed upgrade for Genos

Its fine in my view. But I don't think its been accepted yet.

 

[King]

But the issue here is what I said before. You're doing the entire wave, which is Environmental destruction along with a calc stacked speed, then scaling that to a character who has no showings close to it at the moment.


You're confusing our terminology. John Wick and Jason Voorhees are 9-B, but Jason is a higher degree of 9-B than John Wick is. A High 7-A can defeat another High 7-A and not be 6-C, just a higher level of High 7-A.

Darkshine is still conscious and he failed to kill Furher Ugly.

I.... I have.

Its fine in my view. But I don't think its been accepted yet.

So, according to your logic, if a character with hands the size of a city, slaps someone, they wouldn't be damaged because of the difference in surface area?
He didn't go for the kill against either of them. Against Darkshine, he was just mocking him and against Fuhrer, he was stopped by Homeless Emperor.

general question: How does a calc get accepted anyway?

 

[Qawsedf234]

So, according to your logic, if a character with hands the size of a city, slaps someone, they wouldn't be damaged because of the difference in surface area?

They would receive less damage, yes. Would they be undamaged? I wouldn't go that far.

How does a calc get accepted anyway?

A calc group member looks over it and gives their judgement for usability.

 

[King]

They would receive less damage, yes. Would they be undamaged? I wouldn't go that far.

A calc group member looks over it and gives their judgement for usability.

So, like you post it in the calc discussions group until some member accepts it?

 

[Qawsedf234]

So, like you post it in the calc discussions group until some member accepts it?

Yes, you ask for it to be evaluated here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/calculations-evaluations-new-forum.107523/

 

[King]

They would receive less damage, yes. Would they be undamaged? I wouldn't go that far.

A calc group member looks over it and gives their judgement for usability.

But Golden S has the combined power of those 12 trillion other cells......