Unicron Upgrade

[LordTracer]

Bump

 

[LordTracer]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to ask Ultima Reality or DontTalkDT to comment here?

 

[LordTracer]

I'll ask Ultima.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I really don't see anything supporting Low 1-A here. Vector Prime seems to be talking about Universes with different effective laws of physics and dimensionality that are completely unlike our own, and then noting that even those crazy Universes fail to capture the full extent of the Omniverse, which is uncountably infinite in size.

Also, yeah, besides what Prom said, you all are gonna need evidence of beings who are Tier 1 specifically because of their dimensionality, not Tier 1 beings who happen to be higher-dimensional, to prove Dimensions can equal higher infinities in Transformers.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[LordTracer]

He was asked about what is outside of the multiverse and said that everything he mentioned is outside of the multiverse. Universes are inside of the multiverse. It makes no sense for him to be referring to universes and not dimensions, especially when he was already referring to the seventeen dimensions and universes have already been stated to function like the normal 4-D structure.

 

[Promestein]

The word dimension isn't mentioned there at all, though.

My preferred rating would be "At least Low 1-C, likely/possibly 1-C".

 

[LordTracer]

It shows universes work as they would in multiverse theory.

 

[Promestein]

That's irrelevant as to how dimensions are treated in the setting. So many verses portray universes as such and still have weird, different approaches to dimensions.

 

[LordTracer]

Hm, well either way, universes are inside the multiverse and would therefore not be what Vector Prime was referring to as the question he was asked is about things outside of the multiverse and he stated that everything he mentioned was outside of the multiverse.

 

[Antvasima]

I trust Promestein's sense of judgement.

 

[KarmodF]

@Ultima

The text is weirdly phrased, that's why It's impossible to distinct If he is talking about the universes in the omniverse or the dimensions, that's why I proposed a possibly.

1-B (Is known that a single universe of the multiverse can contain 13 to 17 dimensions) likely Low 1-A or far higher (Stated by Vector Prime that those universes "fail to capture the uncountable infinities that exist in the Omniverse", however is unknown if he was refering to universes or dimension)

 

[Promestein]

A) It's definitely not above Low 1-A so there's no far higher

B) 1-B isn't even justified

 

[KarmodF]

a) No, what Im trying to say:

• 1-B likely Low 1-A

or

• 1-B likely far higher

b) The quote for 1-B is there, just that we lack the evidence for higher infinites.

 

[Promestein]

a) It's not some nondescript far higher though. If it's anything that high, it's Low 1-A, nothing else, but that's not justified.

b) There is no such evidence, so there is no quote for 1-B, just a quote on dimensions that has no bearing on tiering.

 

[KarmodF]

a) I guess, but we are still kinda debating it.

b) I mean, we have a quote for 17-Dimensions but we lack any evidence for them being higher infinites, ergo it has no current meaning.

I guess Low 1-C for Alternity and God tiers is fine until we search more evidence for the cosmology.

 

[LordTracer]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

So should we apply the tiering that Promestein suggested then? It seems most well-motivated.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I think the 17D is fine to use because of the quote Crab posted.

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think Ultima and Promestein?

 

[Promestein]

I still disagree.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Then I think that we should apply your suggestion.

 

[KarmodF]

I agree with Prom, we need more evidence for the higher dimensions being higher infinites, is the main reason why many Tier 1 were downgraded.

 

[LordTracer]

I think Crab said he had proof of dimensions being higher infinities, but I don't recall him posting it.

 

[Crabwhale]

I don't.

 

[Crabwhale]

I specifically said what is on this thread is all I possess knowledge of.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Are you fine with if we apply Promestein's suggestions ?

 

[Crabwhale]

Yes.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Is somebody willing to handle these updates?

You can write down the exact titles of the pages that I need to unlock for you here.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I think that Crabwhale makes sense.

Should we downgrade some of the higher-dimensional Transformers characters if the higher dimensions are not treated as greater infinities?

Low 1-C since there are "higher infinite's" but it's not real elaborated upon?

 

[Antvasima]

I do not know much about the specifics. How do other members here think that we should handle the revisions?

 

[Ogbunabali]

If they get Low 1-C it would be because of uncountable number of universes.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Crabwhale]

If they get Low 1-C it would be because of uncountable number of universes.

^

 

[Antvasima]

So is somebody knowledgeable willing to apply these changes?

 

[Crabwhale]

So just to clarify, I believe the Alternity and the Hytherion should be placed at "Low 2-C, at least 2-A as a collective" as the Hytherion eats entire timelines and the entire phenomenon manages said timeline culling throughout the entire infinite multiverse, whereas the Alternity are comparable.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine to me.

 

[Promestein]

So

• Alternity / Hytherion: Low 2-C, at least 2-A as a collective
  • It seems just 2-A to me, though, no at least necessary.
• Unicron / Primus / Other multiversal singularities: Low 1-C