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Ungrim Ironfist vs Santa Claus
- Thread starter DaReaperMan
- Start date
- 40,551
- 35,063
- Thread starter
- #42
Very true
Also I love how now the fight is just gonna be Ungrim becoming in line with the Christmas Spirit while Santa is resorting to trying to gun him down while both are saying nice things to eachother, this fight looks to going to Stamina and... well... Ungrim's stamina section speaks for itself lol
- 15,589
- 11,879
I mean, Santa Claus' stamina is pretty irrelevant here, he's just gonna be shooting away and teleporting, hell if he gets tired he can just teleport 400 km away, take a breather and come back since Self-BFR is only if you stay away one week. Nevermind that he isn't the one constantly being shot. Or the one who's 40 cm tall.
- 40,551
- 35,063
- Thread starter
- #44
Which would also give Ungrim time to take a breather if he's even been hit at all...
This looks like an incon at this point, both struggle hard to hit the other to the point where it ain't even funny lol
- 15,589
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If he's smaller that means he moves much slower, which makes shooting him easier, and also makes him weaker which means the weapons will do vastly more damage. Ungrim does have a fuckton of stamina but he can't go on literally forever.
- 40,551
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- Thread starter
- #46
Speed is equal and I don't think Santa's guns are all that much faster then he is, Ungrim can quite literally dodge and just go off of willpower and the stamina he gains back when Santa TPs away
- 15,589
- 11,879
Speed is equal at the start but logically if your legs are shorter you can move much less. Also Ungrim doesn't have regen or healing so he can't go on quite literally forever, while Santa could in practice. Imo only real way for Ungy to win is either if Santa goes in for melee, which might or might not ever happen considering Santa's ESP does at the very least tell him Ungrim is real dangerous, or if Ungrim manages to get a lucky axe throw in.
- 40,551
- 35,063
- Thread starter
- #48
Ungrim is like 4'7 at least, he's not short to the point where he can't dodge a beam from at least five dozen meters away.
And where is the scan of this ESP telling Santa whether someone is skilled in combat and powerful or not? Cause this is the only scan on ESP for Santa that I can see
And where is the scan of this ESP telling Santa whether someone is skilled in combat and powerful or not? Cause this is the only scan on ESP for Santa that I can see
- 15,589
- 11,879
After the size manipulation, I mean.
Which let him know that a criminal was guilty of a specific crime and he seems to have sensed a person who could help that case, so clearly it's fairly specific.
- 15,589
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He also could see She-Hulk's past, which would definitely help with knowing Ungrim lol
- 3,633
- 2,504
Ah. That's fair, I suppose. Speed equalization usually only affects their base stats.
Amps can still change it, and other abilities can too.
- 40,551
- 35,063
- Thread starter
- #53
That's highly unspecified and as such can't be assumed to have a range other then straight up melee. Which Santa REALLY does not want to be in.
He'd see a guy who has fought a ton of battles against human-like to utter monsters combat-wise lol
- 15,589
- 11,879
The person he sensed was in Australia lmao. Do you really think Santa needs to walk within melee range of every human alive every year to tell if they've been nice or naughty that year?
Yeah, so, someone he'd stay the **** away from
- 40,551
- 35,063
- Thread starter
- #55
Did it even SOUND like I was talking about the ESP of that post? Really?
- 15,589
- 11,879
Yeah, it did lmao, pipe down. But considering literally every other ability of Santa's, including Transmutation which is likely related, has far higher range than that, I think it's much more realistic to assume Size Manip has longer range than that
- 40,551
- 35,063
- Thread starter
- #57
It's easy to assume that but otherwise the range on Size Manipulation is straight up unknown, which I don't how how we handle that for range but it doesn't bode well IIRC
- 15,589
- 11,879
I don't think we assume that short for thought-based stuff anyway.
Also, something else Santa can do is Probability Manip, he can't make Ungrim unlucky but he can make himself lucky, which would be pretty useful
Also, something else Santa can do is Probability Manip, he can't make Ungrim unlucky but he can make himself lucky, which would be pretty useful
- 40,551
- 35,063
- Thread starter
- #59
Guess what Ungrim resists lol
- 15,589
- 11,879
"he can't make Ungrim unlucky but he can make himself lucky, which would be pretty useful"
- 40,551
- 35,063
- Thread starter
- #61
Thought you said he could do both, brain fart lol
- 40,551
- 35,063
- Thread starter
- #62
Also this is all just solidifying me thinking this is incon lol
- 15,589
- 11,879
Eh, I dunno, Santa's got more options, I'd like to get some third party opinion but I am thinking he might win
- 40,551
- 35,063
- Thread starter
- #64
En before I switch back to Thorgrim just to have the offense of Santa be basically negged lol
- 3,633
- 2,504
I'd hope you're not that biased.
I'd also like to wait for more opinions.
- 15,589
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that would not be very cool
- 40,551
- 35,063
- Thread starter
- #67
I'm not, plus Thorgrim doesn't have any real decent resistance to Aethyr manip lol
- 3,633
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I'll say that these are my general conclusions so far:
1.) I'm extremely skeptical about the size manipulation. We'd have to assume:
a.) It's combat applicable
b.) It has decent range
c.) He'd use it in-character
Therefore, I don't personally think it's a valid win condition for Santa.
2.) Santa has a range advantage in general, and teleportation would make it extremely difficult for Ungrim to hit him.
3.) However, that's all he has going for him. The Empathic Manipulation takes a while, and Ungrim has practically every other advantage.
All that in consideration, I'm leaning towards Ungrim being able to simply outlast Santa, but I'd like to get someone else's opinion on it before I make the leap to voting.
1.) I'm extremely skeptical about the size manipulation. We'd have to assume:
a.) It's combat applicable
b.) It has decent range
c.) He'd use it in-character
Therefore, I don't personally think it's a valid win condition for Santa.
2.) Santa has a range advantage in general, and teleportation would make it extremely difficult for Ungrim to hit him.
3.) However, that's all he has going for him. The Empathic Manipulation takes a while, and Ungrim has practically every other advantage.
All that in consideration, I'm leaning towards Ungrim being able to simply outlast Santa, but I'd like to get someone else's opinion on it before I make the leap to voting.
- 15,589
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I genuinely don't see how Ungrim outlasts given that he literally cannot hit Santa and Santa can just leave the fight at any moment if he wants to rest if he wants, nevermind that teleportation is incredibly casual to him and wouldn't tire him much if at all.
- 3,321
- 1,833
This is a very weird match-up. I'll already say as a disclaimer that I do not know Warhammer Fantasy as well as I do 40k, so many of my assumptions about how Aethyr works may be misjudged.
I also don't think I need to make the analysis topic to topic as I usually do, as things are... Quite straightforward. Ungrim is stronger and more durable, Santa has a stupid range advantage and has more powers. Ungrim resists most of the powers, and if he somehow gets his hands on the jolly old man, Santa is going to have a terrible, terrible time. Ungrim also has a far, far greater stamina, which is his greatest trump card here, which I'll get into.
The thing about this match is that this depends completely on what Santa does in a fight, usually. From the get-go, unless Santa has some incredibly powerful forms of the haxes listed on his profile, I would bet on none of it working directly on Ungrim. Maybe affecting him a bit up to a certain point as it is normal with WH characters, but not really dealing him in, and that is a optimistic scenario. However, Santa has the simplest and greatest advantage in warfare, in the entirety of story of mankind: Range. With his sled, teleportation and a gun, he can play shooting ducks with Ungrim until he falls down and, well... There ain't much to do about it.
I mean, of course, this depends on the terrain a bit. I can think of Ungrim getting into a terrain that would make gunfire largely impractical. And, really, Santa does not seem to be an expert marksmen, and even if he was, straight fire, even if perfectly aimed at one-hit kill places, and assuming said gun WOULD one hit kill Ungrim, are still a very obvious trajectory and rather easy to avoid, considering his skills, IR and all powers that complement it. While Santa will tire way less than Ungrim since he only needs to stay afar and shoot, Ungrim's stamina is so unbelieveably greater that he might just outlast him still.
I guess that someday Ungrim could throw him axe and hit Santa, but at that point, I am tugging at strings. I see this match going for several days until any of the two men realise how stupid their predicaments are. Scratch that, Santa would realise that and try to get away, Ungrim would realise that and only get angrier and more motivated to kill'im.
In any case, I honetly tend to say inconclusive, assuming Santa stays far away and tries to snipe Ungrim. Even if he had perfect aim, Ungrim is far too good to be caught by straight projectiles, even energy-based ones.
I also don't think I need to make the analysis topic to topic as I usually do, as things are... Quite straightforward. Ungrim is stronger and more durable, Santa has a stupid range advantage and has more powers. Ungrim resists most of the powers, and if he somehow gets his hands on the jolly old man, Santa is going to have a terrible, terrible time. Ungrim also has a far, far greater stamina, which is his greatest trump card here, which I'll get into.
The thing about this match is that this depends completely on what Santa does in a fight, usually. From the get-go, unless Santa has some incredibly powerful forms of the haxes listed on his profile, I would bet on none of it working directly on Ungrim. Maybe affecting him a bit up to a certain point as it is normal with WH characters, but not really dealing him in, and that is a optimistic scenario. However, Santa has the simplest and greatest advantage in warfare, in the entirety of story of mankind: Range. With his sled, teleportation and a gun, he can play shooting ducks with Ungrim until he falls down and, well... There ain't much to do about it.
I mean, of course, this depends on the terrain a bit. I can think of Ungrim getting into a terrain that would make gunfire largely impractical. And, really, Santa does not seem to be an expert marksmen, and even if he was, straight fire, even if perfectly aimed at one-hit kill places, and assuming said gun WOULD one hit kill Ungrim, are still a very obvious trajectory and rather easy to avoid, considering his skills, IR and all powers that complement it. While Santa will tire way less than Ungrim since he only needs to stay afar and shoot, Ungrim's stamina is so unbelieveably greater that he might just outlast him still.
I guess that someday Ungrim could throw him axe and hit Santa, but at that point, I am tugging at strings. I see this match going for several days until any of the two men realise how stupid their predicaments are. Scratch that, Santa would realise that and try to get away, Ungrim would realise that and only get angrier and more motivated to kill'im.
In any case, I honetly tend to say inconclusive, assuming Santa stays far away and tries to snipe Ungrim. Even if he had perfect aim, Ungrim is far too good to be caught by straight projectiles, even energy-based ones.
- 40,551
- 35,063
- Thread starter
- #71
The only things that work kind of don't do much to Ungrim for this fight/Santa is probably going to have to get into melee range to do it, a place Santa REALLY does NOT want to be in
- 3,633
- 2,504
The obvious problem with that argument is that if Santa leaves to rest then Ungrim will get to rest as well.
I see it likely that Ungrim would avoid being hit anyways.
I think I can confidently vote inconclusive at this point.
- 1,320
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Yeah everything im seeing here doesn't really lean either way, it's a strong incon, ignoring unknown elements like axe throwing
- 2,267
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Incon FRA
- 15,589
- 11,879
I am also voting Incon, but a couple of nitpicks
I know this is a figure of speech but grappling is the absolute worst thing Ungrim can do cause that give Santa some time to teleport.
I'll be real here Santa is just not a character in Marvel, he's different in personality every time he appears, so I can only tell you that typically he does not enjoy combat and tries to use hax.
Fight is in the North Pole so I dunno if he's finding one, keep in mind Santa also knows the pole way better too.
The issue here is that Santa Claus would genuinely just be able to rest for a bit in a safe location, and while Ungrim could rest too that would not heal his wounds, and as I understand it he does have a limit after which he will no longer be able to fight, if a very high one, so a battle of attrition would eventually work out better for Santa.
SBA prevents abandoning a fight.
Fair enough ig, Incon FRA
- 12,662
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Incon it is then ig
- 3,321
- 1,833
Oh yeah, for sure. By getting his hands on him I meant dealing a blow on him.
Figures. Well, anything goes then I guess.
That is bad for Ungrim... So, yeah, I can only see this going into incon.
Oh, certainly. But in that time that Santa is resting, so would Ungrim be able to do so - any second Santa is not interacting with him is a second of rest for Ungrim as well. I agree that Ungrim would tire far more than Santa, but considering how incredibly high his stamina is, I think he can rest up as well just fine.
i know, if santa is for some reason fighting someone, he probably has a very good reason to
'cause idk about ya, but at christmas i never got a knuckle sandwich as a present-
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SBA also states that forcing someone to give up via hax is valid and since morality works then Santa can just hax Ungrim into being Santa's little helper.
- 40,551
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- Thread starter
- #79
- 126
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Does Grungi have any hax that stops people from wanting to fight him? If not why are you bringing it up?
