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****. Thorgrim probably tanks everything and eventually murders then... hmmm... Ungrim'll probably be more fair
 
****. Thorgrim probably tanks everything and eventually murders then... hmmm... Ungrim'll probably be more fair
It doesn't change the AP since Throgrim scales to Ungrim anyways, but I edited my post.
 
By the way I'm giving Santa everything he could ever ask for like it being on Christmas eve and with his equipment lpl
 
Santa typically leads with hax in character since he's a pacifist (most of the time, his characterization is all over the place since obviously most Marvel writers don't really care to make him a cohesive character lol), which includes Transmutation (Resisted, is the resistance baseline? Cause Santa does it to like, 4-5 people at once. But I bet it's gonna be 1-C or something), Memory Manipulation (Don't see a resistance) and BFR by teleporting him somewhere far away. He has been portrayed as much more of a fighter once or twice but that isn't really in line with his usual appearances so I personally wouldn't count it.
 
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If there's a hax on that page Ungrim resists a conceptual variant of it, and if we're talking RoC stuff yes that is currently 5-D resistances lol
 
Watch your wording on things lol, cause you specifically said hax, if you said stuff in general I would have told you straight up he did have a few 5-D resistances and specifically the ones from the RoC lol
 
Actually, CTRL+F does not bring up any results for Size Manipulation and Morality Manip on the Aethyr page, is he vulnerable to that?
 
I'm not gonna read the longest page on the wiki, does he resist being teleported away to the other side of the world?
Yes
Actually, CTRL+F does not bring up any results for Size Manipulation and Morality Manip on the Aethyr page, is he vulnerable to that?
Ungrim would just as willingly incap a friend as he would kill an enemy, and Size Manipulation would depend on how much it effects Ungrim
 
Also here's the probably somewhat incomplete High 6-C Scaling Chain

Be’lakor >= Archaon (crowned) >Malekith (Avatar of Asuryan)=Tyrion (Avatar of Khaine)= Aenarion=Sigmar>=Orion=Nagash>Archaon (Slayer of Kings)>=Malekith=Tyrion>= Prince_Ograx= Archaon (Armour of Morkar) >=Karl Franz (with Ghal Maraz)= N’kari/Skarbrand/Kairos/Ku’gath= Flamefang (after feeding on enough people)=Cathay Royal Family?>=Vlad von Carstein=Eltharion the Grim=Gor-rok=Greasus Goldtooth?=Gotrek=Throgg>= Archaon (Mark of Chaos Undivided)=Krell=Sigvald>=Wulfrik=Valkia the Bloody>= Count Mordrek>=Nakai=Kroq-Gar=Grimgor=Thorgrim=Ungrim>Belus Pul>=Galrauch the First Chaos Dragon>>Diedrick Kastner=Valnir the Reaper=Festus Leechlord=Vilitch the Curseling> Chakax>Generic powerful Dragons=Generic Greater Daemons=Daemon princes=Daemonslayers=Grail Knights>=Ice Bear?>Alith Anar>=Lord Skrolk> Karl Franz (with Dragontooth)>= Prince Imrik>=Generic Chaos Champions>Dragon Ogre Shaggoth> Saurus Old-Bloods=Phoenix guard=Blackguard>Chosen>
 
Morality doesn't make you Santa's friend, it makes you believe in the Christmas Spirit, which includes all the usual sappy stuff like being kind, believing in the power of friendship, giving up a life of crime immediately and resigning yourself to the authorities, I don't think "he'd fight a friend in character" really matters here after he no longer believes in fighting.

I don't think using guns is immediately in character, but if he does want to attempt it Santa can do it at any time by keeping his distance with teleports.

He only says he can change the size of objects and that it "comes in handy" which I think is referring to him shrinking down the toys in his sack
 
Morality doesn't make you Santa's friend, it makes you believe in the Christmas Spirit, which includes all the usual sappy stuff like being kind, believing in the power of friendship, giving up a life of crime immediately and resigning yourself to the authorities, I don't think "he'd fight a friend in character" really matters here after he no longer believes in fighting.

I don't think using guns is immediately in character, but if he does want to attempt it Santa can do it at any time by keeping his distance with teleports.

He only says he can change the size of objects and that it "comes in handy" which I think is referring to him shrinking down the toys in his sack
I'm pretty sure the Slayer Oath would probably just sear itself all over that, as Santa would probably need to memory wipe Ungrim for him to actually abandon combat against anything, which Santa, obviously, lacks the capabilities to do.

True, but if Ungrim gets his hands on Santa I'm afraid Father Christmas is getting a taste of why Warhammer Fantasy are imfamous for being skill gods for people who've seen them debated or have debated against them

Probably not gonna work too well on Ungrim then
 
I meant the Slayer Oath has a tendency to be a bit of a death sentence if not followed, considering Grungi literally killed a dwarf or few for not following some grudges

And Morality looks to be quite slow and expends time Santa doesn't have if Ungrim gets close or yeets his own shit back at him with Attack Reflection
 
I'm pretty sure the Slayer Oath would probably just sear itself all over that, as Santa would probably need to memory wipe Ungrim for him to actually abandon combat against anything, which Santa, obviously, lacks the capabilities to do.
Why would that be needed?
True, but if Ungrim gets his hands on Santa I'm afraid Father Christmas is getting a taste of why Warhammer Fantasy are imfamous for being skill gods for people who've seen them debated or have debated against them
If Ungrim gets his hands on Santa, the dude has canonically used teleports to avoid melee attacks and it doesn't really matter how skilled you are if your enemy just doesn't get in your range.
Probably not gonna work too well on Ungrim then
Why not? Nothing prevents Santa from making Ungrim fun-sized, which would greatly slow him down and basically make him easy pickings if Santa ever does start using his gun.
I meant the Slayer Oath has a tendency to be a bit of a death sentence if not followed, considering Grungi literally killed a dwarf or few for not following some grudges
... So?
And Morality looks to be quite slow and expends time Santa doesn't have if Ungrim gets close or yeets his own shit back at him with Attack Reflection
It is quite slow. However, "The Rune of Spite gives a large chance of melee damage to be completely negated and reflected, damaging the attacker instead of Ungrim", I'm not sure how that matters against ray guns.
 
Why would that be needed?

If Ungrim gets his hands on Santa, the dude has canonically used teleports to avoid melee attacks and it doesn't really matter how skilled you are if your enemy just doesn't get in your range.

Why not? Nothing prevents Santa from making Ungrim fun-sized, which would greatly slow him down and basically make him easy pickings if Santa ever does start using his gun.

... So?

It is quite slow. However, "The Rune of Spite gives a large chance of melee damage to be completely negated and reflected, damaging the attacker instead of Ungrim", I'm not sure how that matters against ray guns.
Cause Ungrim is also on a fundamental scale sworn to the Slayer Oath. Like you'd need to wipe it from his memory for him to give up fighting

Interesting

Proof this Size Manipulation works on living beings?

So yes.

Forgot it's with melee attacks lol
 
Cause Ungrim is also on a fundamental scale sworn to the Slayer Oath. Like you'd need to wipe it from his memory for him to give up fighting
I mean, if his morality changes, then he would no longer agree with that Oath.
Proof this Size Manipulation works on living beings?
Other toy-related abilities like transmutation work perfectly fine on people, and typically we don't assume powers don't work on living beings unless there's a reason to anyway
 
Considering this is a Warhammer Fantasy Dwarf we're talking about Ungrim would find a way to make that all fit with the Slayer Oath.

Last I checked Transmutation needs proof to work on living beings as well IIRC.
 
Considering this is a Warhammer Fantasy Dwarf we're talking about Ungrim would find a way to make that all fit with the Slayer Oath.
I'm not sure how "I renounce acts such as crime and killing, I only want to spread my happiness to everyone I meet" and "Boy I love revenge-motivated killing" work together but alright
Last I checked Transmutation needs proof to work on living beings as well IIRC.
I mean, his Transmutation does work on living beings considering he temporarily turned the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants into toys. And no I haven't really heard of that either
 
I'm not sure how "I renounce acts such as crime and killing, I only want to spread my happiness to everyone I meet" and "Boy I love revenge-motivated killing" work together but alright

I mean, his Transmutation does work on living beings considering he temporarily turned the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants into toys. And no I haven't really heard of that either
More like "I've done some bad shit so I have to fight until I find a foe that kills me", and yes, Ungrim would find a way to make that fit into it lol

Neat, and it was in a Barney match. But we were talking about Size Manipulation which works on inanimate objects, so in theory Santa could shrink Ungrim's armor and crush him to death
 
I'm not sure why him being a "Warhammer Fantasy Dwarf" is anything special in regards to resisting Empathic Manipulation.
A lot of fictional characters take oaths.
I feel as if you should elaborate on what makes this oath anymore special than others which are easily broken by a change in heart.
 
Neat, and it was in a Barney match. But we were talking about Size Manipulation which works on inanimate objects, so in theory Santa could shrink Ungrim's armor and crush him to death
I really don't think that's a rule, the power pages say nothing about it, consider that sometimes people on matches just lie to ya... But yeah I guess he could do that, little brutal for him but it's an option, and he's done worse depending on the writer. Fun fact, Marvel Santa Claus once kicked an inuit tribe out of their homes and built a nuclear plant on them.
 
I'm not sure why him being a "Warhammer Fantasy Dwarf" is anything special in regards to resisting Empathic Manipulation.
A lot of fictional characters take oaths.
I feel as if you should elaborate on what makes this oath anymore special than others which are easily broken by a change in heart.
Oh believe me, they find a way to even make contradicting shit Match together, like how Ungrim is stuck in a city as it's king but is also under the Slayer Oath and makes that work quite nicely
 
I mean, even if he still manages to keep his Oath, that doesn't mean he'll continue the fight against Santa Claus specifically considering Santa is literally the incarnation of something he believes he must protect and spread. (Like, he is literally the incarnation of Christmas)
 
Slayers would willingly fight Grungi whom is literally one of their gods that they believe in so I don't think that's an issue lol
 
I mean, why would he do that here tho considering Santa doesn't want to fight and wants to spread happiness, which is something Ungrim also wants.

Of course this is all relatively fringe considering this ability is a little slow
 
Also Ungrim would probably also just kill Santa and continue the Christmas spirit in his stead while also juggling that with the Slayer Oath and Kingship, if there's anything Dwarves are good at besides being stubborn as all hell, it's making multiple contradicting things work together and multi-task them all lol
 
Oh believe me, they find a way to even make contradicting shit Match together, like how Ungrim is stuck in a city as it's king but is also under the Slayer Oath and makes that work quite nicely
Wouldn't this leniency actually work against him by allowing him to justify not fighting?
 
Wouldn't this leniency actually work against him by allowing him to justify not fighting?
Probably not, it would probably make Ungrim say nice things to everyone including those he is fighting to try and make them happy lol
 
Also Ungrim would probably also just kill Santa and continue the Christmas spirit in his stead while also juggling that with the Slayer Oath and Kingship, if there's anything Dwarves are good at besides being stubborn as all hell, it's making multiple contradicting things work together and multi-task them all lol
He does rock the beard pretty well already
 
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