Undertale wanking?

[LoudCloud]

What is it with taking the bullet hell portions of the game as to scale? What evidence is there that it's that literal size? There is even plenty of inconsistonsies with the Souls (hearts in the game) having different sizes (eg. bullet hell soul compared to human souls in overworld cutscenes).

If Papyrus used a femur that big to attack it would crush the neighbouring houses anyway. It all seems like it's hardly to scale. There's even people complaining in the comments recently that using his relativistic speed for calculating the force of his attacks is stupid (scroll down). This is especially troubling as most characters are powerscaled to his stats meaning most of the verse is wanked.

What's funny is that they then take tsundere plane's bombs as literal warheads that can destroy cities even though the explosions they cause are, to scale with Frisk/Chara's soul, nowhere near that big (they'd be building size tops). Also if the warheads were that powerful, they would surely destroy the slim bridge the characters are standing on (you fight a lot of tsundere planes in slim metallic bridges in hotland).

Long story short, there are ridiculous inconsistencies with bullet hell portions of the game being proportional and lack of evidence that it's even the case in the first place.

 

[LoudCloud]

That's not even including things like claiming that Vulkin's lighting (which has no proof that it's real lightning anyway) is relativistic and that Knight Knight's "sun" attack fires literal light speed sun beams.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The scaling changes from every battles. In the case of Papyrus', the height of the SOUL is comparable to the Annoying Dog, who is a dog.

It has been proven that things happening in the bullet box are real things and not just magic, with Papyrus creating real bones.

The lighting comes from a cloud created by Vulkin (Clouds created out of volcanoes can create lighting btw) and Frisk dodges lighting coming out of machines later.

 

[LoudCloud]

The sun beams even travel slower than most attacks in the game, so we'd be impying that (to scale) some of the weaker enemies attacks are that fast/faster despite the fact frisk/chara, who have barely been introuced to the under world, dodges them. Lightspeed Froggit anyone? Asgore himself couldn't even dodge a bunch of attacks from random village humans according to the games' own story.

See? I can just make up inconsistencies on the go without even wanting to.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

-sigh- This again.

1. The bullet hell sections aren't scaled against each other. We had a whole discussion about that. Frisk's soul is scaled specifically to the Annoying Dog who appears in the fight and due to them having an actual comparison in the overworld.

2. Knight Knight's sun attack isn't the only place the rel+ stat comes from. Napstablook was also able to react to the flash of light which absorbed the rest of the Underground when given enough of a heads up.

3. Claiming Papyrus' giant bone attack would crush neighboring houses is ridiculous. Clearly he would not aim in such a direction to do so, and the fight takes place on the outskirts of the village away from the town, anyway.

4. Vulkin's lightning wouldn't be relativistic for being real lightning. Real lightning is massively hypersonic.

 

[Reppuzan]

I can't say much since I've never played the game, but take it up with one of the calc team members like Khapoios if you have that much of a gripe with it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I can't say much since I've never played the game, but take it up with one of the calc team members like Khapoios if you have that much of a gripe with it.

It's not the calc itself that he brought up, here. The result of that was already agreed upon.

 

[Promestein]

Asgore himself couldn't even dodge a bunch of attacks from random village humans according to the games' own story.

You mean an Asriel who let them kill him?

Besides, even the most random human within Undertale can become far stronger through Determination. They wouldn't reach Frisk's level normally, but they're far above monsters in the verse.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

that using his relativistic speed for calculating the force of his attacks is stupid (scroll down)

Did you bother to read the whole discussion? Because that's taking things incredibly out of context.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

You mean an Asriel who let them kill him?

Besides, even the most random human within Undertale can become far stronger through Determination. They wouldn't reach Frisk's level normally, but they're far above monsters in the verse

Not to mention Asgore himself actually hates fighting and never actually wanted to hurt anyone.

Also, this has been said a million times, humans in Undertale are NOT the same as regular humans. Regular humans can't increase their strength, come back from death, or reset time with sheer determination.

 

[Promestein]

Well no one responded to them

"but with ftl characters, the relativistic mechanics fall apart, but the newtonian ones stay put (once again it is s choice to whether use them or not as well)

but in this case, it does seem that every non multiversal is bellow light speed, so relativistic mechanics may work fine, so i am ok with this after looking at profiles "

 

[LoudCloud]

Well no one responded to them

"but with ftl characters, the relativistic mechanics fall apart, but the newtonian ones stay put (once again it is s choice to whether use them or not as well)

but in this case, it does seem that every non multiversal is bellow light speed, so relativistic mechanics may work fine, so i am ok with this after looking at profiles "

Woops, my bad

 

[LoudCloud]

-sigh- This again.
1. The bullet hell sections aren't scaled against each other. We had a whole discussion about that. Frisk's soul is scaled specifically to the Annoying Dog who appears in the fight and due to them having an actual comparison in the overworld.

2. Knight Knight's sun attack isn't the only place the rel+ stat comes from. Napstablook was also able to react to the flash of light which absorbed the rest of the Underground when given enough of a heads up.

3. Claiming Papyrus' giant bone attack would crush neighboring houses is ridiculous. Clearly he would not aim in such a direction to do so, and the fight takes place on the outskirts of the village away from the town, anyway.

4. Vulkin's lightning wouldn't be relativistic for being real lightning. Real lightning is massively hypersonic.

2. When was that Napstablook feat?

4. Tell that to whoever put it as an example of Frisk being relativistic

 

[Promestein]

It's not an example of Frisk being Relativistic, it's just a general speed feat worth noting.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

When was that Napstablook feat?

Post-game, returning to Napstablook's house and talking to him. He talks about seeing the flash of light as it enveloped the snails on the farm and reaching his doorstep, though he closes his blinds before it gets in and just goes back to what he was doing. He was the only monster you fought and befriended who doesn't show up to cheer you on, and was the only one who wasn't absorbed due to being farther away and having time to actually react.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Also he was the only one who saw that the light was a threat

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also he was the only one who saw that the light was a threat

Indeed. Because he actually saw it absorb the snails, whereas no other monsters would have time to actually see something like this and react accordingly.

 

[LoudCloud]

When was that Napstablook feat?

Post-game, returning to Napstablook's house and talking to him. He talks about seeing the flash of light as it enveloped the snails on the farm and reaching his doorstep, though he closes his blinds before it gets in and just goes back to what he was doing. He was the only monster you fought and befriended who doesn't show up to cheer you on, and was the only one who wasn't absorbed due to being farther away and having time to actually react.

And how fast was that flash of light? Did it envelop the whole of the underworld like normal, or did it creep along at a certain speed (similar to a sunrise for example). This would make a huge difference.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

And how fast was that flash of light? Did it envelop the whole of the underworld like normal, or did it creep along at a certain speed (similar to a sunrise for example). This would make a huge difference.

Looking at the scene in which Flowey does so, he basically charges up, then the screen flashes white for a second, then he's Asriel. It appeared to happen incredibly quickly, which would make sense, as it covered the entire Underground.

 

[LoudCloud]

And how fast was that flash of light? Did it envelop the whole of the underworld like normal, or did it creep along at a certain speed (similar to a sunrise for example). This would make a huge difference.

Looking at the scene in which Flowey does so, he basically charges up, then the screen flashes white for a second, then he's Asriel. It appeared to happen incredibly quickly, which would make sense, as it covered the entire Underground.

Meh, in a way, it makes sense but on the other hand the light could be "fictional" light. There's plenty of light in fiction that is slower than normal light despite it being called light (eg. Stella's attacks from Winx (don't judge me for watching that show, it was the only example I could find)).

I would usually not mind the feat but since it has such a HUGE impact on the series tiers (that feat effects Papyrus' feat which effects everyone else in turn) I'm a little cynical to just accept it so quickly without further proof or outliers being taken into account. Oh well, your call.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well there isn't much hinting at it not being real light,imo.

Talking about that, I need to do a Undertale downplay debunk thread, because some of my friends thinks that Papyrus loses to RWBY Jaune and that is unacceptable

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The main reason it's considered at least comparable to natural light is due to the fact that it covered the entire Underground (which is...all of underground) while absorbing everyone's (except Napstablook's) souls almost instantly.

The reason it's not considered an outlier is mainly due to there be nothing to contradict it. If monsters stronger than Napstablook had been unable to do something similar from the same distance, it would likely be an outlier. However, all monsters who are actually superior to Napstablook were at the epicenter of the attack, making sense as to why they couldn't react.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Talking about that, I need to do a Undertale downplay debunk thread

Please, please do so. The downplay is borderline painful at this point.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Talking about that, I need to do a Undertale downplay debunk thread, because some of my friends thinks that Papyrus loses to RWBY Jaune and that is unacceptable

All of my kek.

 

[LoudCloud]

Meh. Don't mind tbh. If something it found that debunks this I'll say so but until then relativistic seems fine.

 

[LoudCloud]

Also, one more thing, where is the evidence that what happens in the bullet hells is actually what happens in battle? I'm just curious.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

We have physical appearances of characters in said bullet hell, like the Annoying Dog

 

[The_Everlasting]

We see a couple times that the objects exist in the "real world", such as some characters physically interacting with the hit box (Asgore, Asriel and Temmie being some examples) and Papyrus' bones showing up in his and Sans' house.

 

[LoudCloud]

We have physical appearances of characters in said bullet hell, like the Annoying Dog

Yeah, but that's the annoying dog. He's a reality-warping gag character

 

[LoudCloud]

We see a couple times that the objects exist in the "real world", such as some characters physically interacting with the hit box (Asgore, Asriel and Temmie being some examples) and Papyrus' bones showing up in his and Sans' house.

Wouldn't the character's interacting with the boxes as evidence of them being real events mean it would scale to them?

That actually brings up an intresting point. So we're scaling the box to the annoying dog (who is a multi-universal gag character) but not the characters who interact with it?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Wouldn't the character's interacting with the boxes as evidence of them being real events mean it would scale to them?

That actually brings up an intresting point. So we're scaling the box to the annoying dog (who is a multi-universal gag character) but not the characters who interact with it?

Again, the size is likely inconsistent between battles. Which is why we specifically scaled from Papyrus' own battle.

We're not scaling the box at all. We're only scaling the size of Papyrus' bones to Frisk.

 

[LoudCloud]

Wouldn't the character's interacting with the boxes as evidence of them being real events mean it would scale to them?

That actually brings up an intresting point. So we're scaling the box to the annoying dog (who is a multi-universal gag character) but not the characters who interact with it?

Again, the size is likely inconsistent between battles. Which is why we specifically scaled from Papyrus' own battle.
We're not scaling the box at all. We're only scaling the size of Papyrus' bones to Frisk.

The bones were scaled to the annoying dog irrc

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The bones were scaled to the annoying dog irrc

Yes, who was scaled to the soul. The Annoying Dog has never been shown to change size.

 

[LoudCloud]

The bones were scaled to the annoying dog irrc

Yes, who was scaled to the soul. The Annoying Dog has never been shown to change size.

But the souls have

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

But the souls have

Yes, which is why it's only scaled within the context of the battle, which is what gives us the result.

 

[LoudCloud]

But the souls have

Yes, which is why it's only scaled within the context of the battle, which is what gives us the result.

Sure

 

[Ducktales123]

Fourth Wall Breaking = Omnipotence


/#VsBattlesWikiLogic.

 

[Huesito88]

Lol that nerco someone close this and this like 2 years ago when universal bugs bunny was a thing