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Undertale CRT: 2-C and FUN Values

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Roachman40

Roachman40

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As of now, we currently have the base tier for the big guys being 2-C, with the reason for that being FUN Values and those 100 variables being how many timelines that are existing at once, so to speak. I don't think we should use this as the base tier, 2-C somehow being 'more likely' than 2-B is a stretch to me.

First thing. FUN values do not contradict 2-B, They are merely numbers in the games data that determine certain events that happen in a timeline, which does not mean that there is only 100 timelines, but just that a newly born timeline could have certain variations unbound by the player's influence. Timelines having the same events occur in them doesn't exactly mean they are the same timeline, just that they both share the same features, just as every timeline shares certain similar features to each other, so to speak.

Second thing. While the events fun values determine happen, the values themselves are never actually acknowledged in the game and are only found in the games data. With that I don't think we should consider the values themselves canon, as said they are merely numbers in the game data which determine certain factors that make certain timelines more unique than others with no other thought put into it other than it being a thing that generates a number from 1 to 100 on reset. We've disallowed using certain game data stats if I remember correctly and the dirty hacker ending for similar reasons.

I probably could go on and on about my opinions on 2-C, but I feel this gets to the point a little quicker. All in All we should just take Fun Values as what they are, in that they are numbers in the data that determine specific events that the player gets in a timeline, nothing more, and thus I feel we should remove the 2-C ratings from the profiles and place them back to solid 2-B, which, unlike certain parts of 2-C, can be pieced together by stuff that happens in the game.

Conclusion​

Remove the 2-C ratings from the god tiers and bring them back to a solid 2-B, nuff said.
 
Absolutely agree, the entire thing was made based on TioKill/Charmander seething very hard on the thread and staff accepting only to make him shut up.
 
So uh, as a new visitor to verse, may we see some sort of scans? Or explanation page about cosmology?
 
The cosmology is literally just "Every time reset creates a new timeline". And a single guy with time manip reset the world enough times as to have seen every possibility the setting has to offer. And there have been like at least 7 other people with time reset abilities. Including the player.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Thank you, I will check it.

But as far as I am getting the argument, each fun value is a whole timeline, as in space-time continuum? And there is 100 of them? How is this 2-B?
Click to expand...
2-B comes from every RESET/LOAD generating a new timeline, and the game world can hold an infinitely-expanding amount of timelines as there's not a canonical gap to how much RESETs/LOADs you can perform.
 
And why would the assumption will be that they "may" fill out the game world?
 
Because the characters never destroy just the timelines inside the game world, but also the game world itself which can hold said timelines.
 
I am not sure of the argument, but there is no instance that the game world is filled out?.
 
The game is NEVER filled out.

It is 2-B sized because it can hold timelines even if they're generated over and over, with Flowey even hinting at that sometimes.

The argument is that they destroy the game itself which is a 2-B sized structure, that's it.
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Btw how do we explain Characters remembering stuff that happened in other timelines?
Click to expand...
The previous timeline ends and gets copied in the next one, this is why.
 
Oh I understand, but again if they can destroy game world, then why is fun values is involved? The structure is 2--B, destroying it results in 2-B, what is exactly is fun values being relevant here?
 
ImmortalDread said:
Even the cosmology page states it is 2-C
Click to expand...
2-B: As Sans states in the Genocide route, it is heavily implied that a new timeline starts and a new one begins via RESETS, with there being no actual limit on how many timeline there could be. Flowey alone has RESET and LOADED so much that he has done everything the Underground had to offer (every 'line of dialogue', every 'set of numbers', etc)[4], with Sans alone causing Flowey to do a fair share of RESETs[5]. This also brings us to how many RESETs the player can do, of which, as said, is no limit, with Flowey even saying to chara that he expects that they have heard the Post-True Pacifist dialogue a 'hundred times already'. Due to these points, and it being evident that the game can host all the possible amount of timelines without there being an actual cap to how many RESETs you can do, I feel it is safe to say that this makes the Undertale verse in the Countless or 'Ad-Infinitum' range.

Kindly stop being goofy
 
If the feat is so clear-cut, and there is character who destroyed game world that is 2-B structure (and filled out), why is fun values being involved?
 
have you read what im saying in the OP, dread?

the whole point of this thread is to remove the interpretation of fun values as timelines, as said they are merely numbers in the games data that determine certain factors that make timelines different than others, I haven't edited the explanation page yet to reflect my current thoughts on the blog because I wanted to see if this CRT would go through first to make everything clear, what my blog says about FUN values being timelines will be edited out accordingly.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Eh? You literally shared the explanation page and it is stated from 1-100.
Click to expand...
This is for the Fun Values. But they don't influence the amount of timelines being generated, they're only probability values that trigger certain events depending which one is made when a new timeline is created.
 
I mean, we are currently arguing for fun values tier, but you are giving it 2-B despite the limit is 100? (yes, from 1-100, one is minimum, 100 is maximum)
I can understand the cosmology being 2-B, but I am not understanding why would fun values scales to cosmology.

At least I don't see it in the cosmology page you shared.
 
The FUN Values DO NOT scale to the cosmology, Christ.

We want to get rid of them as an argument.

Are you trolling?
 
StrymULTRA said:
2-B: As Sans states in the Genocide route, it is heavily implied that a new timeline starts and a new one begins via RESETS, with there being no actual limit on how many timeline there could be. Flowey alone has RESET and LOADED so much that he has done everything the Underground had to offer (every 'line of dialogue', every 'set of numbers', etc)[4], with Sans alone causing Flowey to do a fair share of RESETs[5]. This also brings us to how many RESETs the player can do, of which, as said, is no limit, with Flowey even saying to chara that he expects that they have heard the Post-True Pacifist dialogue a 'hundred times already'. Due to these points, and it being evident that the game can host all the possible amount of timelines without there being an actual cap to how many RESETs you can do, I feel it is safe to say that this makes the Undertale verse in the Countless or 'Ad-Infinitum' range.

Kindly stop being goofy
Click to expand...
Here is the conclusion of "your explanation page", and I am not even being goofy
2-C: As established in the Fun Value Section (see above), each FUN value represents a separate timeline that exists alongside frisk. You can interpret sans 'stopping and starting' line here as characters hopping from one FUN value timeline to another timeline of a different FUN Value in the bunch of 100. This would make the cosmology of undertale have just about 100 timelines on the dot.
Click to expand...
This is the current tier for fun values. Again, this thread want fun values to be 2-B, so it scales to cosmology

Adem_Warlock69 said:
Now, now, Dread has no knowledge on Undertale, so his confusion is understandable.
Click to expand...
I am sorry, but I am just confused since the OP claims something and the explanation page says something else.

The premise is to remove 2-C as base tier, and give a solid 2-B as base tier, but the explanation page itself said that only 2 scales to cosmology, so how it is "base tier - 2-B" for everyone
 
StrymULTRA said:
I'd like to get a quote of the blog saying somewhere that 100 is the limit of timelines being generated then.
Click to expand...
Eh? It literally stated 1-100, this is literally saying the minimum value is 1 and the maximum value is 100?
Hell, there is nothing much to say about fun value in the cosmology page.
 
ImmortalDread said:
The premise is to remove 2-C as base tier, and give a solid 2-B as base tier, but the explanation page itself said that only 2 scales to cosmology, so how it is "base tier - 2-B" for everyone
Click to expand...
I haven't edited the explanation page yet to reflect my current thoughts on the blog because I wanted to see if this CRT would go through first to make everything clear, what my blog says about FUN values being timelines will be edited out accordingly.
Click to expand...
Read the message I posted above, dread, the justification for 2-C will be REMOVED AFTER this thread concludes
 
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