Undertale: Chara, Frisk and Sans revisions

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Frisk​

The proposal is to change Peak Determined Frisk’s Attack Potency to straight up 2-B instead of 2-B Environmental Destruction.

Reasoning​

Well, let’s begin:

• Frisk’s Attack Potency is dependent on Determination, just as the profile says:

Attack Potency: Varies with Determination

Determination also links to Statistics Amplification, meaning that Frisk’s attack potency (and other stats) amplifies with Determination.

• Frisk’s Peak Determination is comparable to Asriel’s in his God of Hyperdeath form, given that the person who has most Determination gains control over timeline and SAVE/RESET system with Asriel being unable to use TRUE RESET and needing to defeat Frisk in order to get control over the timeline. As supportive, Frisk is able to survive Asriel’s attacks despite the latter having infinite ATK, and Frisk is even able to survive one of Asriel’s strongest attacks (as accepted on profile) solely due to Determination.
• This would make the gap between Peak Determination Frisk and Asriel’s Determination far less than Frisk with Immense Determination (who is obviously below Peak Determination self in Determination) and Photoshop Flowey (who is obviously below God of Hyperdeath self in Determination) with Immense DT Frisk being able to harm Photoshop Flowey, who took control over the timeline.
• Finally, Peak DT Frisk can survive Asriel’s attacks, as I showed before, even with having ATK and DEF at 0, making their AP and Durability equal, solely due to Determination.

(TL;DR: Photshop Flowey is immensely superior in determination to a Immense Determination Frisk yet Frisk can still inflict damage on Flowey, meanwhile Asriel and Peak DT Frisk had comparable in Determination, meaning that Frisk should be able to damage Asriel too. Peak DT Frisk can also survive Asriel’s attacks due to solely determination and their ATK and DEF is equal, making AP comparable to Durability)

Regarding a “contradiction”​

“We literally cannot damage Asriel”
While this is true, I do not believe that the reason here is due to Frisk being unable to, but the reason is them unwilling to do so. The evidence is Frisk doing only 1 damage to Undyne despite hitting them at full force on the True Pacifist Route. Asriel’s fight comes much, much after this, and it is hinted that Frisk wanted to actually save Asriel, due to all BUT save option getting out of the screen during Asriel’s last attack. This also makes sense logically and narratively: this conclusion does not contradict the reasoning supporting 2-B AP, and it goes along with True Pacifist Route which is all about sparing people and befriending them instead of using violence.

“Frisk never shows such AP so it doesn’t matter”
No, the logical deduction is a way to scale one’s AP. Moreover, we literally give Absolute Chara and Player Immeasurable Speed rating solely via Determination scaling chains, despite them lacking feats remotely at such level. Moreover, we give Player full AP and durability scaling solely via Determination scaling chains too. Doing so to Chara and Player but not Frisk is just a hypocrisy.

Note​

This, on the other hand, won’t affect Peak Determination Frisk’s match-ups due to them in-character having the same AP as in the battle against Asriel, aka far lower than 2-B. However, it can work with bloodlusted Peak DT Frisk.

Chara​

Chara currently is accepted to possess Frisk for the entire Genocide Route. However, this is actually not the case, and they only gain full control after Sans dodges this attack. The reasoning:

• It makes no sense for Chara to possess Frisk before last hit on Sans. The reasoning is that Sans has Instinctive Action as said on his profile, so Chara, if we assume them fighting during the entire battle, being unable to land a hit on Sans but somehow being able to do so later does not make any sense, as Instinctive Action would make Sans dodge again, even if Chara “broke the rules”. Heck, even going to the FIGHT button like this by itself is breaking the rules of the game, but Sans still manages to dodge that WHILE BEING ASLEEP, while he is awake during the second hit. It would make far more sense if Frisk was fighting the entire battle with Chara helping out in the end and blitzing Sans on the second hit, as Instinctive Action can be countered by speedblitz.
• During Genocide Route before Sans, all of monsters get their health reduced to their minimum and you inflict the exact same damage as they have HP even if you one-shot them (aka, it will not be all nines). However, when we hit Sans, he gets 9999999 damage, despite having 1 HP and 1 DEF. Same goes with Asgore: he gets 9999999999 damage despite having far lower HP. And it was recently revealed that Chara’s favorite number is 9, and they like things like all nines because there is nothing higher than that which means you’re invincible, and these both facts (9999999… ATK thing and Chara’s strong liking of “9” and thinking that a lot of 9s would make them invincible) together very heavily imply that Chara fully possessed Frisk’s body only after landing last hit on Sans.
• Last hit on Sans, Asgore and Flowey are made without player (in real life) doing anything, unlike how it was before them.

(Note: Chara does indeed take some control over Frisk before that, but on a weaker level and not in battles)

So, Chara still keeps their possessing Frisk key, but the reasoning for stats should be the following:

• Attack Potency: At least City-Block level (One-shoted Asgore)
• Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic+ (Managed to kill Sans, Asgore and Flowey without even giving them a chance to react)

Sans​

Now, to something very simple. I made this calc that got accepted, so Sans’ Range should change from Hundreds of Meters to Kilometers with Teleportation.

 

[ShionAH]

Agree with sans addition