Umineko nep type2 to Nep1

[Ihsjihahxu]

I would like to propose downgrading Nonexistent Physiology Nature 2 to nonexistent Physiology Nature 1


Because in the profile umineko's is too outdated and has not been edited at all.

Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2. Exists as an entity of nothingness at the core of her being, with her physical form being constructed and defined solely by her thoughts)

Umineko begins with no body, existing in nothingness. before receiving the body showing that in the profile Every character in umineko exists as nothingness before having a body affected by thoughts. which matches this scan exactly.

I used to be an existence of nothingness, just like you.

But I started having my own identity, my own thoughts, and eventually, my own body

I talked about scan nonexistent Physiology with ovy7 and confirmed that this is actually Umineko's nonexistent Physiology.
Talking with ovy7

Nonexistent Physiology Nature 2 To Nonexistent Physiology Nature 1



Agree:

Disagree:

 

[YueNoMoral]

fine i guess, agree.

 

[Sisyphusx]

I'm confused which character is this referring to, are you proposing this for the entire verse?

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

I'm confused which character is this referring to, are you proposing this for the entire verse?

From what I thought The entire profile description comes from the same point. I think it offers the whole verse.

At least Featherine Augustus aurora

 

[Sisyphusx]

From what I thought The entire profile description comes from the same point. I think it offers the whole verse.

At least Featherine Augustus aurora

Whose statement is that in the scan? (Sorry for this, I'm only caught up till episode 6 of umineko)

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

Whose statement is that in the scan? (Sorry for this, I'm only caught up till episode 5 of umineko)

Bernkastel

 

[Ovy7]

This CRT feels a bit half-assed, as NEP no longer has Types but Natures and Aspects + no mentions of the chars who are gonna be affected by this.

Anyway, going by my knowledge of the P&A, their NEP should change from Type 2 to Nature Type 1 or 2 (not sure which) and Aspect Type 2. This should apply to all the characters with Meta-World/Witch Domain key (so pretty much all the Tier 1 chars).

Whose statement is that in the scan? (Sorry for this, I'm only caught up till episode 5 of umineko)

It's from Higurashi, not Umineko, and it's a dialogue between Bernkastel and Rika when the latter appeared in the Meta World.

 

[Robo432343]

you just said that their profiles are outdated and thats it
you didn't really explain why it should be downgraded

 

[Ovy7]

NEP Types no longer exist so it's not technically a downgrade

 

[Sisyphusx]

The original poster should probably edit the OP and make it more coherent and informative?

 

[Robo432343]

ovy7 didn't even say that the NEP should be changed to NEP 1 so using that screenshot means nothing.
bruh.

 

[Railgun]

I actually have a few more scans about this but I don't remember their context so I have no idea which type they are suitable for.

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

you just said that their profiles are outdated and thats it
you didn't really explain why it should be downgraded

I received direct information that Bernkastel's talk was Makes you realize that you are a void that does not exist. Later, she came into existence with her mind and with her body. which is in line with the concept of NEP nature 1 which is the state of not existing, or is 0 But nep nature 2 is the state of something that is neither 0 nor 1.

Nonexistent Physiology Nature 1

Material Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a conventional sense. In terms of binary, this would be a 0, where existence is 1 and nonexistence is 0. In simple terms, that means that the characters simply lack the aspect, in the same way that a stone lacks a soul.

Nonexistent Physiology Nature 2

Idealistic Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence.

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

ovy7 didn't even say that the NEP should be changed to NEP 1 so using that screenshot means nothing.
bruh.

I didn't mention that ovy7 mentioned that let's change Nep nature 1. What I'm doing is Scans say that the self exists in emptiness without body and identity. Before having an identity with your own thoughts and came into existence I took it and asked ovy7 if this was a scan of nep umineko or not. He said this was Nep, so I was suspicious because In the profile, it doesn't have to match the concept of Nep nature 2 because it matches Nep nature 1 more.

 

[NatzuX]

Anyway, going by my knowledge of the P&A, their NEP should change from Type 2 to Nature Type 1 or 2 (not sure which) and Aspect Type 2. This should apply to all the characters with Meta-World/Witch Domain key (so pretty much all the Tier 1 chars).

I think it should be just Nonexistent Physiology Nature Type 1 Aspect 2.

 

[Ovy7]

I actually have a few more scans about this but I don't remember their context so I have no idea which type they are suitable for.

You could post then, I might know how to find the context.

 

[Sisyphusx]

Nature 1 aspect 2 seems fine but I don't see any substantiation for it to be applied for the entire verse or featherine as the OP says, as the provided evidence's extent only ranges upto Rika and Bern unless @Ihsjihahxu provides any more scans or context

 

[Railgun]

I think the above can also be included in the NEP 1 explanations.

It is talking about 0 being nothingness and 1 and infinity being existence.

and here it talks about the same thing and says that creators are free from all restrictions. I'm not very knowledgeable about this, but maybe we could argue that creators should have NEP 2.

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

I think the above can also be included in the NEP 1 explanations.

It is talking about 0 being nothingness and 1 and infinity being existence.

and here it talks about the same thing and says that creators are free from all restrictions. I'm not very knowledgeable about this, but maybe we could argue that creators should have NEP 2.

Okay, I understand where the creator is. with what Maria explains the difference between one and infinity and existence and non-existence.

The creator is independent of the two.

Idealistic Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence.

But the other one, I think Nep nature 1 aspect 2 I don't think I'm likely to find scans from other characters besides Bern and Rika.

 

[Railgun]

You could post then, I might know how to find the context.

Do you think oblivion has anything to do with NEP? Do characters who survive oblivion can get any NEP or do they only get high godly regen?

But the other one, I think Nep nature 1 aspect 2 I don't think I'm likely to find scans from other characters besides Bern and Rika.

I guess i didn't understand what you are saying here, sorry. But if you think this talk is only for Bernkastel and Rika, that's wrong, even after all witches have been conceptually erased, they can exist again just by thinking. I believe all witches should get nature 1 and aspect 2 and creators should get nature 2 and aspect 2,3(maybe 4?)

 

[MrKerf]

I would say it is at least unwise to make a crt for a single ability when pages are outdated and the verse might be affected soon by Ultima's proposal.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

interesting, following, maybe I should try to get someone that specializes in this verse to read this thread.

Anyways,

NEP should change from Type 2 to Nature Type 1 or 2 (not sure which)

would be type 1 as far as what is shown in the OP's scans.

Aspect Type 2

I think it should be just Nonexistent Physiology Nature Type 1 Aspect 2.

I'm not someone knowledgeable on the verse, thus tagging[replying] to multiple people who said it, but based off the scans, is the "identity" and "thought", and something else that I may be missing, necessary for one's existence on a conceptual level IN-VERSE? Otherwise it simply seems that the being in question lacked those aspects[identity and mind], which seem more like aspect type 1 or 3.

1. Spiritual Nonexistence: These are characters whose soul and/or astral body is nonexistent. They are hence immune to regular Soul Manipulation.
2. Conceptual Nonexistence: These are characters for which one or multiple concepts, that are necessary for their own existence, are nonexistent. They are hence immune to regular manipulation of said concept(s). Which type of concept should be mentioned on the profile.
3. Mental Nonexistence: These are characters whose mind is nonexistent. Characters with this type are hence immune to regular Mind Manipulation and related abilities.

For now I agree to downgrading it to nature type 1, unless someone else presents scans that may give NEP nature 2, but not sure on the aspect type.

 

[BoastJr]

I agree FRA with changing it to nep type 1 but unsure on aspects

 

[Ovy7]

Otherwise it simply seems that the being in question lacked those aspects[identity and mind], which seem more like aspect type 1 or 3.

They are also an existence of nothingness, which IIRC falls under Aspect 2, tho I might be wrong on this.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

They are also an existence of nothingness, which IIRC falls under Aspect 2, tho I might be wrong on this.

not sure either, but I think "existence of nothingness" simply means they exist as nothingness, the textbook definition of nature type 1. And the aspects that gives depend entirely on context.

IIRC for aspect 2 their nature would have to be such that they exist preceding to, or without concepts needed to make existence. Such as concept of light/darkness[ying/yang], the concept of existence itself, or something like the concept of identity[idk if that exists but for context am referring to something like LOI from DKD]

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Yeah i agree, it should be NEP 1 unless, further evdience and explanation is added that can prove it meets the current requirements for NEP 2.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

and here it talks about the same thing and says that creators are free from all restrictions. I'm not very knowledgeable about this, but maybe we could argue that creators should have NEP 2.

Forgot to reply to this part before, but "Free from all restrictions" is mostly treated as stuff related to Laws and resultantly, Causality[most of the time].
Also don't see how being in your Original state of NEP is counted as a restriction, and even if it were, being free from that can simply be argued to have become existence [no longer nonexistence].

 

[Railgun]

Forgot to reply to this part before, but "Free from all restrictions" is mostly treated as stuff related to Laws and resultantly, Causality[most of the time].
Also don't see how being in your Original state of NEP is counted as a restriction, and even if it were, being free from that can simply be argued to have become existence [no longer nonexistence].

I had rather concluded that they are independent of both 1 and 0, but since there is not enough information, you are probably right.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I had rather concluded that they are independent of both 1 and 0, but since there is not enough information, you are probably right.

Well it could be as such if "1" and "0" were included as restrictions and/or laws, but that doesn't seem to be the case. So yeah

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

Nep Nature 1 Aspect 2 is fine but I doubt this should be for the entire verse. Ultimately, it reached as far as Bernkastel and Rika. At least Bernkastel and Rika can get it. I don't agree with the downgrade of other characters, especially for the FAA.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Nep Nature 1 Aspect 2 is fine but I doubt this should be for the entire verse. Ultimately, it reached as far as Bernkastel and Rika. At least Bernkastel and Rika can get it. I don't agree with the downgrade of other characters, especially for the FAA.

Problem is that the profiles are heavily outdated..... Even FAA profile mostly lacks scans, and her descriptions only fit for NEP 1.....

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Nep Nature 1 Aspect 2 is fine but I doubt this should be for the entire verse. Ultimately, it reached as far as Bernkastel and Rika. At least Bernkastel and Rika can get it. I don't agree with the downgrade of other characters, especially for the FAA.

Well if someone could get the scans for NEP2 for other characters than it wouldn't be removed from them
But in this case it would have to be removed/changed from everyone's profile

 

[Ovy7]

There's nothing unique about Bern and Rika for only them to have NEP and not the rest of the Meta beings.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

There's nothing unique about Bern and Rika for only them to have NEP and not the rest of the Meta beings.

Think he meant that other beings should retain their NEP2 still, which doesn't seem possible so far as I see it

 

[Ovy7]

which doesn't seem possible so far as I see it

Why tho?

Also, I don't get why this exact thread got bumped when there is a newer and better written one.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Why tho?

Uhh, not enough scans? I'm talking as someone who doesn't know much about the verse nor have watched/read it, just judging from the scans provided in the OP. That's why I said it is possible if additional scans are brought up.

Also, I don't get why this exact thread got bumped

??? Wdym this thread got bumped? Or are you trying to say that "there's already a thread for NEP so why was this made"?

when there is a newer and better written one.

I'll check it