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Ultraman Zero and Belial revisions.
- Thread starter Mr.Cutlery
- Start date
- 3,525
- 168
- Thread starter
- #42
Yeah, that's a problem in its own, too...
I mean, there was already a discussion regarding this before. King is, in fact, not baseline Low 2-C due to the feat being performed when he was basically unconscious. The AP applies to him, just that it gives him an extra weakness when using a particular power.
In short, King is not baseline and that's probably the reason why having someone also be Low 2-C by scaling to him, though on a lower scale was eligible.
Unfortunately it was Aeyu who gave it a check. I'll quote up some of what she said:
"At least Low 2-C because they can continue to do it, over time."
"(Low 2-C though at least) because it affects the entirety of the universe and its space-time continuum."
I mean, there was already a discussion regarding this before. King is, in fact, not baseline Low 2-C due to the feat being performed when he was basically unconscious. The AP applies to him, just that it gives him an extra weakness when using a particular power.
In short, King is not baseline and that's probably the reason why having someone also be Low 2-C by scaling to him, though on a lower scale was eligible.
Unfortunately it was Aeyu who gave it a check. I'll quote up some of what she said:
"At least Low 2-C because they can continue to do it, over time."
"(Low 2-C though at least) because it affects the entirety of the universe and its space-time continuum."
- 3,525
- 168
- Thread starter
- #44
Alright, sorry for the late reply, just trying to figure out how to reply. But anyway; I thought scaling someone to Low 2-C for having a small portion of a Low 2-C's power was eligible?
I say this because King is actually well above baseline, to what extent is currently unknown, but there are hints throughout the series regarding it, they're just extremely vague.
I say this because King is actually well above baseline, to what extent is currently unknown, but there are hints throughout the series regarding it, they're just extremely vague.
- 3,525
- 168
- Thread starter
- #46
Well, I guess that doesn't sound too bad.
It's still strange, though. I was informed that as long as the source of power could affect the space-time of a universe, then the wielder shouldn't be too far below.
Nevertheless, thank you for the reply, I'll try getting to revising the verse soon.
Should the topics previously discussed be eligible for application now?
As in, the ratings you proposed since I don't have much qualms with. As long as I can get something done.
It's still strange, though. I was informed that as long as the source of power could affect the space-time of a universe, then the wielder shouldn't be too far below.
Nevertheless, thank you for the reply, I'll try getting to revising the verse soon.
Should the topics previously discussed be eligible for application now?
As in, the ratings you proposed since I don't have much qualms with. As long as I can get something done.
- 3,525
- 168
- Thread starter
- #48
Alright, that makes massive changes from 3-A to At least 3-B.
This should apply to...
(To give an idea, it stomps a monster who stomped his EoS Super Form; BetaSpark >> Zaigorg >> EoS X)
Carrying on with that, Orb in his Ultra Fight Orb key should be 3-A due to constant power growth. Not only that, but later portrayals show him as being comparable to his last strongest form. As it is with other Ultras.
And as for Low 2-C, only King will be eligible for it. Maybe Belial in one of his future forms, which I will explain if needed.
Others, starting with Geed would be High 3-A, possibly Low 2-C as per your suggestion.
This should apply to...
- Juda
- Mold
- GingaVictory (Ultraman X Onwards key)
- X (EoS, second Exceed X and the first two tiering in Movie Ver. keys)
- Subsequently, those that scale to them
(To give an idea, it stomps a monster who stomped his EoS Super Form; BetaSpark >> Zaigorg >> EoS X)
Carrying on with that, Orb in his Ultra Fight Orb key should be 3-A due to constant power growth. Not only that, but later portrayals show him as being comparable to his last strongest form. As it is with other Ultras.
And as for Low 2-C, only King will be eligible for it. Maybe Belial in one of his future forms, which I will explain if needed.
Others, starting with Geed would be High 3-A, possibly Low 2-C as per your suggestion.
- 3,525
- 168
- Thread starter
- #50
Alright then, sounds good.
I'll get to it once I have the time. And Internet.
I'll get to it once I have the time. And Internet.
- 3,525
- 168
- Thread starter
- #52
Okay, there may have been a slight oversight in the 3-A rating change.
We agreed that Mold would be downgraded to At least 3-B+
He is superior to Juda, who I got the 3-B from. Looking back, I've made it clear before that his feat, although gradual, wouldn't take too much time, which puts him at the upper echelons of the tier.
Not to mention, we missed a key from Mold's page.
Now let's take a look at the scaling chain presented.
Guar Spectre >> DTE-powered Mold > Mold Spectre (stomps)> Ultraman Victory > Juda; who is already far into 3-B
I'd say... I think I disagree with the downgrade for those in Tier 3.
Apologies for this, and what trouble it brings.
We agreed that Mold would be downgraded to At least 3-B+
He is superior to Juda, who I got the 3-B from. Looking back, I've made it clear before that his feat, although gradual, wouldn't take too much time, which puts him at the upper echelons of the tier.
Not to mention, we missed a key from Mold's page.
Now let's take a look at the scaling chain presented.
Guar Spectre >> DTE-powered Mold > Mold Spectre (stomps)> Ultraman Victory > Juda; who is already far into 3-B
I'd say... I think I disagree with the downgrade for those in Tier 3.
Apologies for this, and what trouble it brings.
- 3,525
- 168
- Thread starter
- #54
Right, thank you for your time. I should be getting to the rest of the revisions, soon.
- 3,525
- 168
- Thread starter
- #58
Weird power-scaling man.
I mean, sure, Zero Beyond once fought against Belial Atrocious, but given everything else prior to that, it could very well be an outlier.
As for Geed having RMM, it's been made clear that because of our current tiering attainment method, him getting a small portion of King's powers can't be passed. I've had a discussion about this before in another thread, where it was initially given the go, but due to a round, which happened in this thread, I believe they should have the tier I've proposed.
Though, you are free to put out your argument.
I mean, sure, Zero Beyond once fought against Belial Atrocious, but given everything else prior to that, it could very well be an outlier.
As for Geed having RMM, it's been made clear that because of our current tiering attainment method, him getting a small portion of King's powers can't be passed. I've had a discussion about this before in another thread, where it was initially given the go, but due to a round, which happened in this thread, I believe they should have the tier I've proposed.
Though, you are free to put out your argument.
- 499
- 52
Zero Beyond was essentially unbeatable the entire series, though?
If anything was an outlier or rather the odd man out for the entirety of Geed, it was (I believe episode 18?) where Zero Beyond was actually struggling with some random alien and his robot mech where they basically used it as a plot device for Zero for be written off the episode and fight him for a majority of the time in space.
Prior to that, Zero Beyond's only actual challenges were Belial himself every single time. The dude was literally unbeatable for a majority of the series in a consistent way.
Belial merged with the powers of Alien Empera and Dark Lugiel btw. The former who is only recognized as surpassed by the likes of Rayblood who became one with Belial.
And Zero Beyond fought near equally with him.
Its not that weird when you consider Zero is Tsuburaya's poster child and essentially the Kamen Rider Decade of the franchise.
Most of these guys should be Low 2-C due to how very generous the new generation series are with verse escalation.
Hyper Zetton was once an extremely difficult opponent that took the power of Ultraman Saga to defeat. A fusion of Zero, Dyna and Cosmos.
Flash forward a few years and the new kids are all dealing with Hyper Zetton on a regular basis, while the older series Ultra's only scale to and above that via showings from movies and specials.
Zero especially.
If anything was an outlier or rather the odd man out for the entirety of Geed, it was (I believe episode 18?) where Zero Beyond was actually struggling with some random alien and his robot mech where they basically used it as a plot device for Zero for be written off the episode and fight him for a majority of the time in space.
Prior to that, Zero Beyond's only actual challenges were Belial himself every single time. The dude was literally unbeatable for a majority of the series in a consistent way.
Belial merged with the powers of Alien Empera and Dark Lugiel btw. The former who is only recognized as surpassed by the likes of Rayblood who became one with Belial.
And Zero Beyond fought near equally with him.
Its not that weird when you consider Zero is Tsuburaya's poster child and essentially the Kamen Rider Decade of the franchise.
Most of these guys should be Low 2-C due to how very generous the new generation series are with verse escalation.
Hyper Zetton was once an extremely difficult opponent that took the power of Ultraman Saga to defeat. A fusion of Zero, Dyna and Cosmos.
Flash forward a few years and the new kids are all dealing with Hyper Zetton on a regular basis, while the older series Ultra's only scale to and above that via showings from movies and specials.
Zero especially.
- 3,525
- 168
- Thread starter
- #61
No. I've been very distracted and at a loss of motivation, hence my inactivity. I might return to it at some point. But for now, I will probably be making sandboxes for when the revisions will finally be done.
- 3,525
- 168
- Thread starter
- #63
Copy that, I'll try my best to see this thing through.
