Ultra Instinct Goku vs Super Sonic.

[00potato]

I was referring to Super Sonic obviously. Also did Dark Gaia, or Solaris fight classic SS?

 

[ShakeResounding]

Doesn't matter if he did or not. Doesn't change the fact that an outlier is an outlier.

Tiem Eater and Phantom King are >>>> Dark Gaia anyhow

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

It might be an outlier for knuckles but you forget that Sonic was caught off guard, which Goku could do via teleporting. None of those people you mentioned were massively stronger then Sonic anyway so a suprise attack might not be needed.

Super Sonic has been struck by characters massively more powerful than Knuckles (Time Eater, Phantom King, Solaris, ect) and the Chaos Emeralds haven't been knocked out of him. Knuckles catching Super Sonic by surprise doesn't make him somehow infinitely less durable, and this obvious case of Plot-Induced Stupidity shouldn't be used to make up a weakness for him.

 

[Theuser789]

Sonic is not Goku that lowers his power level when hit off guard

Classic Super Sonic is stronger than Dark Gaia, and the Phantom King doesn't make him turn to normal, nor anyone stronger than Knuckles, drop this

It's a outlier with the only explanation that Knuckles used the Master Emerald to nulifie the emeralds, it does not work afterwards nor can Goku do it

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Why is this Vs Thread getting derailed by PiS?, Knuckles knocking the emeralds out of SS is completely irrelevant to this match!.

Anyway I'll assume both characters have optional equipment (since the OP didn't specify otherwise), Gokus only win-con is sealing via the Mafuba meanwhile classic Sonic has void hax, absorption, time hax, durability negation, etc as all viable win-cons.

 

[AlexZiggy]

As others have pointed out, it's a one time thing that has not been replicated in any other instance, even when a stronger enemy faces Super Sonic. So wether it is PIS, or Master Emerald tomfoolery doesn't matter, because both render the argument that "you can punch the Emeralds out of Super Sonic" null and void

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I have an idea. Round 2 should be Hyper vs MUI.

 

[Omegas03]

Good idea, I just hope it isn't AP stomp (Goku) or hax stomp (Sonic).

 

[Omegas03]

Would this fight be fairer if I made this Post UIO2 SSB Goku (with access to Kaioken) against Super Sonic?

 

[HST_Master]

He goes from having a high ap advantage to one shotting then.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Super or Hyper Sonic still got their invulnerability though, so one-shotting is kind of iffy

 

[Leon_Help4]

That is a NLF, and Goku can easily replicate what Knuckles did in Sonic 3.

Also, Modern Sonic *can* get hurt in various battles and even lose if the player does not dodge enough attacks.

Classic super sonic's standard battle strategy is ramming into his foes, which Goku can easily dodge and exploit.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That is a NLF, and Goku can easily replicate what Knuckles did in Sonic 3.
Also, Modern Sonic *can* get hurt in various battles and even lose if the player does not dodge enough attacks.

Classic super sonic's standard battle strategy is ramming into his foes, which Goku can easily dodge and exploit.

1. We already discussed this exact event in Sonic 3 and it is agreed to be either an outlier or Knuckles using the master emerald. Both cases makes Goku unable to do the same.

2. Modern Super Sonic? Because iirc, he was only being damaged by Solaris, a 4D being, and Dark Gaia, which weakened the chaos emeralds (and in some versions of the game Super Sonic one shots it)

3. Goku's strategy would also be punching and using ki blasts. The best he would do is outskill him in combat (which would likely be true, but Sonic has some other abilities he uses in character)

 

[HST_Master]

Super or Hyper Sonic still got their invulnerability though, so one-shotting is kind of iffy

Invulnerability itself is a iffy ability.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Super or Hyper Sonic still got their invulnerability though, so one-shotting is kind of iffy

Invulnerability itself is a iffy ability.

I agree. The wiki should have a standard in what to do in this cases to prevent NFL. But for now, at the very least his invulnerability would increase his durability by idk, a couple of times? I guess?

 

[Theuser789]

The page says that invulnerability can defend from anything that isn't a infinite power diference, people need to revise it before going against what's in the page

 

[Greenshifter]

Sonic's invulnerability works and I think this is a stomp since Goku only has sealing which he barely does in character, Xeno Goku vs Hyper Sonic should be more fair if it happens eventually when both have the same tier.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Sonic's invulnerability works and I think this is a stomp since Goku only has sealing which he barely does in character, Xeno Goku vs Hyper Sonic should be more fair if it happens eventually when both have the same tier.

It doesn't really matter though since Goku is so far into 2-B that the AP gap is practially infinite (but not actually infinite since he isn't 2-A). I could definitely see the match going both ways if speed is unequalized but that derailing

 

[Greenshifter]

@Gilad Fair point

 

[AwkguyDB]

Does Classic SS have all his equipment too? or just the chaos emeralds?

 

[Omegas03]

All his Standard Equipment for that key.

 

[Greenshifter]

Ah that makes it more difficult, I assume Goku has the Mafuba tho? Don't think Goku will seal before his timer is out, although he's not an idiot so if he sees his attacks do nothing he might try something especially since 2 minutes for MFTL+ characters is an eternity, that said I think the nature of Ultra Instinct makes it unlikely (but not impossible) to try something like that and it's more likely his timer just runs out so a solid win for Sonic (Sonic can also BFR but yeah no).

 

[Omegas03]

I think we should have an accepted conseus on how invulnerability works (I think Goku is getting past it) but vote counted.

Oh and yeah, Goku has the Mafuba (I mean, I doubt he'll use it with UI anyways).

 

[AwkguyDB]

Does Sonic have a time limit?

 

[Greenshifter]

isn't omen 1 only like max 20 times baseline? Also I always assumed that Sonic's invulnerability should work up to Solaris' level since he is the only enemy who actually hurt Sonic in all versions of the game.

 

[HST_Master]

The page says that invulnerability can defend from anything that isn't a infinite power diference, people need to revise it before going against what's in the page

And yet people say otherwise and that it only helps with comparable or not one shot worthy ap.

 

[Greenshifter]

Nope, no time limit that's game mechanics and has been discussed and accepted before.

 

[Greenshifter]

Alien X for instance has invulnerability but this is more of the stone wall kind of deal so characters with higher AP (or heck Alien X himself) can bypass it. While Super Sonic has the real deal due to several statements and showcases during fights so this one could probably be assumed to only be bypassed by someone being infinitely stronger or at the very least on Solaris' level.

 

[Omegas03]

Wait, 2-C Super Sonic had a close AP/dura to Solaris because he was using the a higher output of the Emeralds, yet Solaris was still able to hurt him.

Shouldn't Classic Super Sonic invulnerability which is Low 2-C be bypassed by someone somewhat stronger than him them?

 

[Greenshifter]

No because by that logic Time Eater would have been able to hurt this Sonic which is not the case.

It's likely that his "durability" is always on a 2-C level (or at least if he himself is in tier 2) while his AP varies. Solaris being 4-D might also have something to do with it as brought up earlier.

 

[HST_Master]

isn't omen 1 only like max 20 times baseline? Also I always assumed that Sonic's invulnerability should work up to Solaris' level since he is the only enemy who actually hurt Sonic in all versions of the game.

"Egg Salamander": Am I a joke to you?

 

[Greenshifter]

2. Modern Super Sonic? Because iirc, he was only being damaged by Solaris, a 4D being, and Dark Gaia, which weakened the chaos emeralds (and in some versions of the game Super Sonic one shots it.

Was going of of this. If Egg Salamander also hurts him then I think we have a problem.

Also yes Egg Salamander is kind of a joke since who calls a 2-C weapon salamander...?

 

[Theuser789]

And yet people say otherwise and that it only helps with comparable or not one shot worthy ap.

Yes, that's why people need to revise it, because they are going against the standard

 

[HST_Master]

Not an outlier either as it was running off of The Sol Emeralds power which made it comparable to Blaze and Sonic.

 

[AwkguyDB]

So as far as I see it.

Goku has the AP advantage but Sonic got the invulnerability.

Goku hasn't been shown to bypass invulnerability so I don't think it's fair to discredit Sonic's dura and I think it makes sense for Sonic to bypass his AP with the way Invul is defined until a revision happens.

Now Sonic almost for sure wins here via not taking Goku's crap with his invulnerability while having his own hax palette at his disposal. Also I think someone brought up that Sonic has BFR which may or may not matter since Goku has IT and Ki Sensing with Dimensional range.

But speaking of BFR what stops Goku from BFR?

 

[Theuser789]

Was going of of this. If Egg Salamander also hurts him then I think we have a problem.

He doesn't, neither does the Egg Wizard

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah just checked he doesn't, he looks like he gets hurt but his rings don't actually deplete from getting hit.

 

[Greenshifter]

@AwkguyDB Goku's own character (also this is sort of outside help with King Kai being involved and all but I'll probably revise that one day so that Goku can still use all his abilities) and Sonic may have universal+ range teleport? (don't know if that's enough to get back from King Kai's planet?) If he knows how to create a portal to another dimension and if he can choose where in that other dimension he ends up then that's also a way to counter BFR.

 

[HST_Master]

Yeah just checked he doesn't, he looks like he gets hurt but his rings don't actually deplete from getting hit.

Uh what? The Egg Salamanders missles make him lose rings.

 

[Theuser789]

Uh what? The Egg Salamanders missles make him lose rings.

Only those, most importantly the Egg Wizard can't bypass it