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Ubel CRT

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Chariot190

Day 132 of working on MGS
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Source is "Sousou no Frieren: Official Fanbook - Page 84 & 85".

Databook yap. Add this to her subjective reality.

"強固な防御魔法も, 彼女の「切れる」というイメージだけで一瞬で無きものになった.
Even strong defensive magic was reduced to nothing in an instant, just by her mental image of 'it can be cut'."

For reference, this is a more literal translation, but generally you'd translate it as "nullified" as opposed to "reduced to nothing" to convey it better.

To parse that shit, 無きもの (なきもの) literally means "something nonexistent" or "something that no longer exists". Whatever the subject is (so the defense magic in this case) was something erased, nullified, or rendered as if it never existed in the first place.
無い (ない), which means "not existent" or "nothing", "nothingness", "nil", whatever. And then the second part もの (物) just means "thing" or "object".

Mind you, it isn't saying "defense magic is nothing to her" or something like that, "になった" is a grammatical construction in Japanese that combines the に particle which indicates a change or outcome and the past tense of なる, which means "to become", which is なった, which is to say, whatever tf she's doing, is actively reducing or turning defensive stuff nonexistent or nothing, it's a change of state. This is power null I'd say as she isn't just ignoring it, but reducing it into nothing due to her mental vision of "cutting".

Additionally,
"自分の感覚に従って行動する感覚派. たとえ絶対的な理屈があっても覆すことができる.
An intuitive type who acts according to their own senses/intuition. Even if there is absolute logic, they can overturn it."

And

"殺すも切るも共感するも全て自分の感覚に従う. 理屈や魔法の原理などは考えず, 感覚だけでそのまま戦闘に用いる. ユーベルのイメージ次第で, 遥かに格上の相手に勝利することも.
Whether it's killing, cutting, or empathizing, everything is based on their own intuition. Without thinking about logic, the principles of magic, or anything like that, they use their intuition alone as is in combat. Depending on Ubel's mental image, she can also possibly achieve victory against far superior opponents."

This is pretty straightforward. Refering to her cutting magic, which is based strictly on her intuition of what can or can't be cut (her perception and what she can visualize), says she can overturn an absolute logic, and she even ignores logic and even the principles of magic.

And yes, the words used 理屈 (logic) and 原理 (principle) entail, respectively, what you think they do.
理屈 means reasoning, logic, or theoretical explanation, etc. It often implies a systematic way of thinking or justifying something, whether valid or contrived. The combination of 理 ("logic" or "reason") and 屈 ("to bend") is the idea of constructing or twisting reasoning into a logical framework. It can either mean legitimate reasoning or overly complex rationalization, depending on the context, but that shit don't matter, you get the point, it's logic or reason, sometimes you'd even translate it as "law".

In Ubel's case, it's actually on crack. What they actually say is 絶対的な理屈, or absolute logic/reason.
This is a term used for reasoning or truths that are so fundamentally correct or universally agreed upon that they are considered unchallengeable under normal circumstances.
With 絶対的 meaning absolute or unconditional and other such yap.
As an example, something like "Gravity pulls down" would be an absolute logic. This is the type of shit we're dealing with here, universally accepted logic, things that aren't up for debate, things that just are. Mean jackshit, she can ignore or twist it.

On the other hand, 原理 means a principle, fundamental truth, or law that serves as the foundation for a system or theory and shit. The underlying rules or mechanics that govern how something functions. As above, the combination of 原 ("origin", "source", etc) and 理 ("reason" or "logic", etc, same character actually) conveys a fundamental reasoning or basic laws. It emphasizes the foundational truths or mechanics that govern a system, such as the laws of physics or the principles of magic in this case.

Which is to say, Ubel can straight up ignore absolute logic and overturn it, and even the fundamental laws of her power system (Which magic in Frieren very well hinges on, she's literally breaking the laws of magic in which laws and principles and scientific theories is how magic as a whole is conventionally used upon) with her own magic.

I don't know what we'd list this as, someone said limited law manip, I'm not sure, it's less she's making laws, and more like she legit just doesn't give a shit about rules, laws, logic, absolute truths, etc and her magic can bypass or break them. But either way we need to list that, they yap about it in the manga too at points but I think those scans already listed, we can repurpose them ig if need.

Also split her range in the Exam Arc and the Assassination Arc, in the Exam her range was only 5m for cutting magic.
 
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This is giving me Go Beyond flashbacks. An ability that just ignores logic and screws you over regardless of what you do. Actually, wouldn't that give her Resistance to Logic Manipulation then?
 
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Law manip (or if Logic manip ends up with its own page, then that) seems good yeah.

Also split her range in the Exam Arc and the Assassination Arc, in the Exam her range was only 5m for cutting magic.
I suppose enough time has passed between the arcs that she could have just Got Better yeah. When I wrote it I guessed that Wirbel had only made an assumption that later proved false.
 
Isn't this just the long explanation of "she can cut what she thinks can be cut regardless of how durable or twisted it is"

Edit#2: I guess it's more of "ignores something or someone's durability or existence and cut them regardless of their nature if she thinks they can be cut "


This just seems like dura neg with mechanics rooted in subjective reality since her cutting ability is based on how she views the world

I know subjective reality is a power on this forum appearently but I meant her literal subjective reality, ie reality how she preceives it with her senses, and same with the power description it seems her subjective reality somewhat affects how she interacts with reality itself, logic doesn't matter, objective reality doesn't matter, nothing does, in the context of what she can cut, only her reality matters



Which is just to say this is fancy pants dura neg until her powers are expanded upon more

Edit: upon further thinking, maybe she can cut the manifestation of concepts if she thinks they can be cut?


I guess that may also count as being able to interact with shenannigans that you normally can't interact with?

I guess her powers are an amalgamation of abilities since it allows her to cut a lot of stuff you normally can't but I'm not familiar with the powers on this wiki so you all help out a bit

Yeah I definitely need to read frieren
 
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Isn't this just the long explanation of "she can cut what she thinks can be cut regardless of how durable or twisted it is"
Yeah, it is, but details matter.
Edit#2: I guess it's more of "ignores something or someone's durability or existence and cut them regardless of their nature if she thinks they can be cut "
Basically.
This just seems like dura neg with mechanics rooted in subjective reality since her cutting ability is based on how she views the world
Yes, but she can alter laws, logic and what not by doing so.
I know subjective reality is a power on this forum appearently but I meant her literal subjective reality, ie reality how she preceives it with her senses, and same with the power description it seems her subjective reality somewhat affects how she interacts with reality itself, logic doesn't matter, objective reality doesn't matter, nothing does, in the context of what she can cut, only her reality matters
Pretty much, she can even ignore cause and effect to a degree with it, being able to use her cutting magic with her magic sealed.
Which is just to say this is fancy pants dura neg until her powers are expanded upon more
No it means she can ignore absolute logic, the foundational principles of magic and more as long as it falls under her ability.
Edit: upon further thinking, maybe she can cut the manifestation of concepts if she thinks they can be cut?
If she think she can cut it, probably, probably not though because she struggles cutting things with no form. But she could cut a cloth layered with a fucktrillion spells that invoke law manip and conceptual shit and whatever all things considered.
I guess that may also count as being able to interact with shenannigans that you normally can't interact with?
No, she has trouble interacting with things she can't visualize.
I guess her powers are an amalgamation of abilities since it allows her to cut a lot of stuff you normally can't but I'm not familiar with the powers on this wiki so you all help out a bit

Yeah I definitely need to read frieren
It just means her ability has power null baked in, as well as some weird law alteration. On top of the subjective reality. Actually indexing what it's capable of is what we do. This is pretty important info as it enables her to essentially bypass quite a few things via statements, especially in verse given the magic system is based on scientific principles and laws.
 
No it means she can ignore absolute logic, the foundational principles of magic and more as long as it falls under her ability.
yes, that's the mechanism and the framwork on which her "cutting" operates upporting her "dura neg", which is an application her abilities, and one of the few known applications of such power as far as i know

If she think she can cut it, probably, probably not though because she struggles cutting things with no form. But she could cut a cloth layered with a fucktrillion spells that invoke law manip and conceptual shit and whatever all things considered.

so she can, and that fact needs an ability existing on the wiki to give it a category, is there an abiilty on the wiki whose users can cut trough concepts?

like i said this seems like an ammalgamation of abilities created trough the nature/framwork on which her abilities operate and said framework gives access to multiple abilities that can't be categorized into a single one

dura neg being one of them, she can cut concepts if she thinks she can, so that's one as well, a "barrier" that repels attacks trough a mechanism of gravitational pull can be cut if she preceives it can be, so that's another application, i guess ignoring a barrier's nature, like a barrier that can absorb your energy and multiply it 10 fold to strike you back with it can be cut without such quality activating, so i guess power or ability negation


but this is all based on the premise that she thinks she can cut it
must be a fun character for vs debates lol

if i'm missing something or wrong somewhere do let me know, i'm not that knowledgeable about haxes or law and conceptual shenannigans....
 
2 is standard for stuff like this so yes, someone slap it. 48h has long since past too.
 
Ok, applied it. Does this look alright?
 
Technically, since this involves stuff like law manipulation, would actually fall under controversial and thus requiring 3 staff
I can promise you giving DIO flight is 100% more controversial than giving WoU law manip.
Ok, applied it. Does this look alright?
Add Law Manip after logic manip ig, she ***** with both, including the laws that govern the magic system plus other laws as outlined in OP (Honestly feels more like resisting laws but ig breaking laws count according to Spaceman?).
Unless Logic Manip is just Law Manip that got renamed (didn't know we had logic manip tbh).
 
Unless Logic Manip is just Law Manip that got renamed (didn't know we had logic manip tbh).
The link text "Logic Manip" just automatically links to the Law Manip page since rn they're considered one and the same, so it's mostly visual. It can be changed if you'd prefer though.
 
Frieren seems to differentiate between logic and actual laws. So idk, something like
[[Logic Manipulation|Logic & Law Manipulation]].

May as well cover both given they're technically different and she has both. Unless we don't want to do that, honestly idc to much, this is just splitting hairs, you goons and the mods can decide if need be.
 
You split your character profile into 2 keys, but you didn't write Ubel's Ap Sp and Dura achievements.
 
You split your character profile into 2 keys, but you didn't write Ubel's Ap Sp and Dura achievements.
Because atm, the only difference is that one thing. It could change in the future, it will probably change in the future, but atm there's nothing to add.
 
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