- 33,405
- 8,416
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Two Star Shaped Beings fight
- Thread starter Dragonmasterxyz
- Start date
- 8,986
- 3,141
Going through Starmon X's scaling, it is comparable to this yield:
Seadramon storm = 4.59202024e20 joules, High 6-C.
Starmie is comparable to.... 2.6003377e+21 Joules=621.4956262 gigatons
(Now since I'm stupid & can't into scientific notation.)So that's....
459,202,024,000,000,000,000 (or 459 quintillion 202 quadrillion 24 trillion) joules
Vs
2,600,337,700,000,000,000,000 (or 2 sextillion 600 quintillion 337 quadrillion 700 trillion) joules.
2,600,337,700,000,000,000,000 / 459,202,024,000,000,000,000 = 5.6627313559053476645825933903114
I have no idea how much stronger or weaker Starmie & Starmon X are compared to the things in their respective scaling chains, but for the numbers they're comparable to, the Pokemon feat is about 5.66 times higher than the Digimon feat, if my numbers are correct.
'course, Starmon X being the same as Starmon but possibly stronger may skew things.... Or is it staying at the same level of High 6-C Starmon is & ignoring the "possibly 4-C" as per the "Only High 6-C Starmon" is used?
Anyway, without accounting for Egg Moves -since Starmie's profile doesn't mention them, & IIRC, I'm unsure if we use them- let's look at their techniques.
The biggest problems for Starmie is that Starmon will probably try to put it to sleep. What can it do against this?
A. Natural Cure could cure Sleep. But this requires being out of battle for some time. Unlikely to happen unless Starmie buys time by shrinking with Minimize, hiding with Camouflage, gets Starmon confused with Confuse Ray, or manages to hide in some of Cerulean City's water.
B. Starmie's Ultra Moo Pokedex entry says: "It rotates its geometrically shaped body to swim through the water. It always seems to be sending out mysterious radio waves."
Vs
"Saiminjutsu: Puts the enemy to sleep using strange radio waves."
Ergo, avoid sleep via "dude, radio wave interference, lol". ....Maybe? Are they even the same kind of radio waves.
C. As noted on Starmie's profile, being near it causes headaches, which may be problematic for the stamina, focus &/or aim of a close combat fighter like Starmon X, or if Starmon X wants to hypnotize; I imagine landing your melee strikes or doing proper hypnosis is harder with a persistent headache.
Another worrysome thing....
Meteor Squall & Meteor Champion may also be problematic, but Starmie may be harder to hit if it's under cover of water, shrunken or camouflaged.
Illuminate's light could also help make Starmie hard to aim at.
Weaknesses & resistances applicable here is hard to figure out, because.... Well, for one, I don't know what Starmon X's electricity manipulation is. Also, Camouflage & Reflect Type.
Honestly, I have a hard time saying. Even knowing the numbers, I don't know much stronger than Starmon Starmon X is supposed to be here. If it puts Starmie to sleep, Starmie will have a rough time, but shrinking, bright light, cover of the local water, camouflage & headaches all make actually hitting Starmie tough, physically, non-physically, or with hypnosis or otherwise.
But Starmie has bad options, too, here. Tackle, Rapid Spin, Water Gun, Psywave, & maybe Bubblebeam are all pretty bad options; The last thing it wants to do is make itself an easier target for a close combat fighter & hypnosis user, even if the headaches are stronger up close.
In theory, if Starmie manages too avoid sleep enough, it could win a battle of attrition with its Regenerationn, Recover, durability amping via Harden & Cosmic Power, & the more temporary Light Screen. Swift is also unavoidable.
Confuse Ray is also nice utility, as is the telekinesis it has, which may allow it to redirect Starmon X's bubbles & meteors.
Even if there are several ways it could be avoided, it's not like Starmie knows in advance Starmon X will try to put it to sleep. It might figure it out after the first one or two times, given its supposedly high intelligence, but how much of a stamina drain will it have lost after falling asleep once or twice?
How much stamina sleeping will cost it is even harder to answer without being sure who's stronger here.
Their stamina is "High" vs "Likely very high" & their intellgence is "High, likely even for Pokemon standards" vs "The Starmon line is made up of highly skilled fighters who prefer to face the opponent head on and utilize either their mind based powers or their powers to summon meteors to overwhelm or defeat them."
So stamina is unclear, & one is PROBABLY pretty smart, & the other has simplistic tactics its biased to, that are probably predictable & exploitable -such as via hiding, range, healing & durability amping- in the long run.
Anyone else wanna chime in with some input? In any case, I have to go out now. Hope this helps!
Seadramon storm = 4.59202024e20 joules, High 6-C.
Starmie is comparable to.... 2.6003377e+21 Joules=621.4956262 gigatons
(Now since I'm stupid & can't into scientific notation.)So that's....
459,202,024,000,000,000,000 (or 459 quintillion 202 quadrillion 24 trillion) joules
Vs
2,600,337,700,000,000,000,000 (or 2 sextillion 600 quintillion 337 quadrillion 700 trillion) joules.
2,600,337,700,000,000,000,000 / 459,202,024,000,000,000,000 = 5.6627313559053476645825933903114
I have no idea how much stronger or weaker Starmie & Starmon X are compared to the things in their respective scaling chains, but for the numbers they're comparable to, the Pokemon feat is about 5.66 times higher than the Digimon feat, if my numbers are correct.
'course, Starmon X being the same as Starmon but possibly stronger may skew things.... Or is it staying at the same level of High 6-C Starmon is & ignoring the "possibly 4-C" as per the "Only High 6-C Starmon" is used?
Anyway, without accounting for Egg Moves -since Starmie's profile doesn't mention them, & IIRC, I'm unsure if we use them- let's look at their techniques.
The biggest problems for Starmie is that Starmon will probably try to put it to sleep. What can it do against this?
A. Natural Cure could cure Sleep. But this requires being out of battle for some time. Unlikely to happen unless Starmie buys time by shrinking with Minimize, hiding with Camouflage, gets Starmon confused with Confuse Ray, or manages to hide in some of Cerulean City's water.
B. Starmie's Ultra Moo Pokedex entry says: "It rotates its geometrically shaped body to swim through the water. It always seems to be sending out mysterious radio waves."
Vs
"Saiminjutsu: Puts the enemy to sleep using strange radio waves."
Ergo, avoid sleep via "dude, radio wave interference, lol". ....Maybe? Are they even the same kind of radio waves.
C. As noted on Starmie's profile, being near it causes headaches, which may be problematic for the stamina, focus &/or aim of a close combat fighter like Starmon X, or if Starmon X wants to hypnotize; I imagine landing your melee strikes or doing proper hypnosis is harder with a persistent headache.
Another worrysome thing....
- Darkness Gear/Cog Crusher: Shoots black cogs from its face that can control Digimon they're embedded in.
Meteor Squall & Meteor Champion may also be problematic, but Starmie may be harder to hit if it's under cover of water, shrunken or camouflaged.
Illuminate's light could also help make Starmie hard to aim at.
Weaknesses & resistances applicable here is hard to figure out, because.... Well, for one, I don't know what Starmon X's electricity manipulation is. Also, Camouflage & Reflect Type.
Honestly, I have a hard time saying. Even knowing the numbers, I don't know much stronger than Starmon Starmon X is supposed to be here. If it puts Starmie to sleep, Starmie will have a rough time, but shrinking, bright light, cover of the local water, camouflage & headaches all make actually hitting Starmie tough, physically, non-physically, or with hypnosis or otherwise.
But Starmie has bad options, too, here. Tackle, Rapid Spin, Water Gun, Psywave, & maybe Bubblebeam are all pretty bad options; The last thing it wants to do is make itself an easier target for a close combat fighter & hypnosis user, even if the headaches are stronger up close.
In theory, if Starmie manages too avoid sleep enough, it could win a battle of attrition with its Regenerationn, Recover, durability amping via Harden & Cosmic Power, & the more temporary Light Screen. Swift is also unavoidable.
Confuse Ray is also nice utility, as is the telekinesis it has, which may allow it to redirect Starmon X's bubbles & meteors.
Even if there are several ways it could be avoided, it's not like Starmie knows in advance Starmon X will try to put it to sleep. It might figure it out after the first one or two times, given its supposedly high intelligence, but how much of a stamina drain will it have lost after falling asleep once or twice?
How much stamina sleeping will cost it is even harder to answer without being sure who's stronger here.
Their stamina is "High" vs "Likely very high" & their intellgence is "High, likely even for Pokemon standards" vs "The Starmon line is made up of highly skilled fighters who prefer to face the opponent head on and utilize either their mind based powers or their powers to summon meteors to overwhelm or defeat them."
So stamina is unclear, & one is PROBABLY pretty smart, & the other has simplistic tactics its biased to, that are probably predictable & exploitable -such as via hiding, range, healing & durability amping- in the long run.
Anyone else wanna chime in with some input? In any case, I have to go out now. Hope this helps!
- 33,405
- 8,416
- Thread starter
- #3
The Seadramon who performed the feat was a File Island Seadramon. The files we have here 98% are Folder Continent Digimon. As such they are so far superior to the File Island inhabitants that the File Island Digimon cannot ever hope to compare. Not only that, X-Antibody Digimon are astronomically more powerful than their base forms.
- 8,986
- 3,141
In that case, if Starmie is only comparable to something 5.66 times stronger than a File Island Digimon, & it's a safe bet to say that Starmon X is at least 100 times stronger than said FI Digimon's yield, then isn't this a stomp via statistics?
The way it sounds, it seems like, while they might be on the same tier, the Digimon's statistics are many tens, if not hundreds of times higher, at least. That sounds like grounds for it to one-shot Starmie here, no?
The way it sounds, it seems like, while they might be on the same tier, the Digimon's statistics are many tens, if not hundreds of times higher, at least. That sounds like grounds for it to one-shot Starmie here, no?
- 33,405
- 8,416
- Thread starter
- #5
No, both are around the same level of power.
- 33,405
- 8,416
- Thread starter
- #7
The thing is "stronger than the File Island Digimon cannot hope to compare" is kinda vague. So we know they are far above File Island Digimon, but how much is unknown. Although I may ask Dark or Ex about if they deserve a "+" or not normally.
- 8,986
- 3,141
It sounds like it, if I understand things right. If Starmon is a Continent Folder Digimon, then Starmon is far above Seadramon, a File Island Digimon, right?
And Starmon X is an X-Antibody Digimon, which is far above his Continent Folder Digimon base form?
I know argument from incredulity is a fallacious argument, but based on what I've been told here, I have a hard time believing Starmon X isn't many times stronger than Seadramon.
And Starmon X is an X-Antibody Digimon, which is far above his Continent Folder Digimon base form?
I know argument from incredulity is a fallacious argument, but based on what I've been told here, I have a hard time believing Starmon X isn't many times stronger than Seadramon.
- 33,405
- 8,416
- Thread starter
- #9
Yes, a Folder Continent Starmon is superior to a File Island Seadramon who performed the feat (The gap is the same between the Folder and File Seadramon as well).
That is also true.
Like I said, I may have to bring this up to Ex and Dark. When I put the stats, I didn't want to make too many assumptions on the "+'s".
That is also true.
Like I said, I may have to bring this up to Ex and Dark. When I put the stats, I didn't want to make too many assumptions on the "+'s".
- 33,405
- 8,416
- Thread starter
- #11
I've sent them both messages, so now we wait.
- 10,687
- 6,334
While I was personally okay with Low 6-B Server Continent Digimon, I agreed that it's probably just safer to put them at At least High 6-C. I don't agree with adding a "+" or anything, as Dragon put it, is a bit to assumptive.
- 33,405
- 8,416
- Thread starter
- #13
Of course the issue is defining directly how powerful Folder Continent Digimon are to File Island. I mean the Analyzer said 1000x but that isn't linear. However, we also know that X-Antibody forms should in fact have the "+" due to them being far stronger than their base Folder Continent forms. I also want to see what Ex says, but like Dark said, we don't wanna make too many assumptions.
- 3,050
- 2,622
My opinion is the same as the Dragon.
We know that:
File Island Digimon are the most basic of all, yet they are very powerful.
But even so the difference between them and the Digimon of Folder Continent is so great that there is no way to compare them normally.
X-Antibody Digimon are usually so powerful that their normal forms do not have any comparison (that is, considering that the Digimon have some hidden power since there are those that do not suffer alteration by already having the occult power released).
We know then that there is an unqualified abyss of power between File Island Digimon and Folder Continent Digimon. And there is usually a similar difference between normal Digimon and its counterparts with X-Antibody.
So we just know that there is an abyss of power between these three types of Digimon. But apart from the Digimon Analyzer's measurement all we have are unqualified values.
So there is no direct basis for proposing a change because we have no values
We know that:
File Island Digimon are the most basic of all, yet they are very powerful.
But even so the difference between them and the Digimon of Folder Continent is so great that there is no way to compare them normally.
X-Antibody Digimon are usually so powerful that their normal forms do not have any comparison (that is, considering that the Digimon have some hidden power since there are those that do not suffer alteration by already having the occult power released).
We know then that there is an unqualified abyss of power between File Island Digimon and Folder Continent Digimon. And there is usually a similar difference between normal Digimon and its counterparts with X-Antibody.
So we just know that there is an abyss of power between these three types of Digimon. But apart from the Digimon Analyzer's measurement all we have are unqualified values.
So there is no direct basis for proposing a change because we have no values
Similar threads
