Tsuna Universal Upgrade?

[azontr]

So the feat is legit. Anyone planning to make a CRT then.

Sure, after I spend the next 5 days binging hitman reborn to get more information!

 

[SauceGod1.1]

Completely forgot about this thread; whenever VSB accepts it or not imma scale Tsuna to Uni since I was just looking for the scan to see if it was legit or what the actual translation was. VSB will likely not accept it since they would definitely rule it as an outlier even though there are flaws with saying an idea from statistics has more validity than pure logic given statistics are used as a means to reach an end and require the application of logic/deduction. AP =/= DC and DC feats do not indicate a limit to AP. Also, I'm pretty sure there's an argument for Byakuya having created the Choice Arena which is stated to have infinite height; I have my own problems with this being High Uni but it can work as supporting evidence https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/880/26-241.0/compressed/treborn_011.jpg?token=bc689742150fe9aeac0a7042d7ab5df469fcb741&ttl=1627660800

 

[SauceGod1.1]

One more thing for you.

ビッグバン並の超パワーでな
With the super power of the Big Bang.

Yeah I was really bored and searched for the raws.

W mans

 

[YukaSama4]

I'm pretty sure there's an argument for Byakuya having created the Choice Arena which is stated to have infinite height; I have my own problems with this being High Uni but it can work as supporting evidence

he didnt create them iirc, also where is it stated to have infinite height?

-nvm I read that now lol

Edit: The choice arena took place on an uninhabited island that Byakuran discovered.
Now it's said that they are infinite but I do think this statement was not meant to be taken as literal, I mean look at the same scan you can actually see an end to their height.

 

[SauceGod1.1]

he didnt create them iirc, also where is it stated to have infinite height?

-nvm I read that now lol

Edit: The choice arena took place on an uninhabited island that Byakuran discovered.
Now it's said that they are infinite but I do think this statement was not meant to be taken as literal, I mean look at the same scan you can actually see an end to their height.

Where does it say that it took place on an uninhabited island? And we do not see an end to its height, we just see cloud/sky which are shown with multiple other shots of the sky later on

 

[Nierre]

...interesting thread

following.

 

[Chasekilleen]

Edit: I disagree with this, due to it being too good to be true and the arguments kind of sound far-fetched IMO.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Edit: I disagree with this, due to it being too good to be true and the arguments kind of sound far-fetched IMO.

Why?

Agree with low 2-C

 

[SauceGod1.1]

I'd have to reread the scene or the entire series but the only think I can think of going against the statement Reborn makes is that Tsuna never actually destroys the Black Holes with raw energy if not he uses Harmony the first time and for the second time you can prolly argue that Emma released his black holes after Tsuna activated XX Burner or whatever he did.

 

[SauceGod1.1]

Wouldn't he still scale by virtue of Enma just... creating them? And surpassing Enma? Creating black holes would still warrant scaling.
If a majority are fine with the black holes being realistic (which I don't see anything wrong with them), then they should be calced soon, tho how many Enma made at once would also have to be noted.

I was talking about the Uni statement, not the Black Holes.

Here's my stance about the black holes:

Also, here's my problems with creation feats in general:



I have problems with what I said on the "Solutions" part alongside what was said in the "Problems" part and I could go more in-depth on it but I believe it stills
illustrates my problems with the meta

 

[SauceGod1.1]

Ah. Aight. Reading all this, I do think problem #6 sorta weird when it's kinda clear that author was going for this to be an irl black hole (character who made them has grav manip, you have the light can't escape statement, star being crushed by its own gravity, etc), that saying Enma was only making the effect of a black hole really seems kinda eh to me. Will admit that the other points are fair.
The "creation" feats part is... interesting. Feel free to post more about it if ya want, tho at least by this wiki's standards, it should be fine to scale this to physicals.
It's absolutely alright if you don't agree with that, tho I hope you're consistent in applying that standard to other verses

That 6th point is like saying "I doubt the author was trynna say that Enma can exert enough energy to create the entire earth several dozen times over and more so trying to replicate the effects of a Black Hole."

It's been a while since I've talked about KHR so I'm rusty. When I rescale Tsuna, I'll remake that post and be more comprehensive.

 

[SauceGod1.1]

If it's his this wiki's standards then yeah there ain't much wrong with creation feats. But they'll prolly call this feat an outlier since KHR best feats are under Country lvl

 

[SauceGod1.1]

Outlier is tossed way to casually in these parts being real. I know of another verse that's going through something similar to KHR but I won't detail

My counter to that would be Enma creating loads of them during his fights against Tsuna and then Daemon would make it more than consistent. Not just a one and done thing.
I also find it extremely weird calling someone's primarily ability an outlier lol.

But I'll go into depth on that more if the time comes.

I wish you good luck

 

[ObberGobb]

If Dying Will Flames aren't normal flames, then I don't think we should treat the black hole Enma created like actual black holes.

As for them being outliers, creating them multiple times doesn't make them not outliers. The contention isn't whether or not Enma can create black holes, but whether these black holes can be treated like real black holes. Since there is nothing else in the series that implies any character is even close to Tier 5 levels of power or above, and the evidence towards them being real black holes is unclear at best, I personally think we should just assume they are something completely different and merely imitate black holes.

 

[SauceGod1.1]

Feat is like a decade old and people still ain't Talkin bout it

 

[ObberGobb]

...I'm confused lol. What do you consider "consistent" then. That in fact should make them consistent. Enma make many of them in two different fights.
Now if you don't think they're real black holes, then sure (tho I do), I can sorta get that, but I really can't agree with writing them off as outliers.

Also


I mean he still makes them through gravity manipulation just for support.

I meant that them being real black holes (and thus propelling the whole verse to Tier 5) is an outlier because there isn't anything else in the series that's suggests they are that powerful.

Enma can make things that kind of act like black holes, yes, but scaling them to Tier 5 is what I consider to be an outlier.

 

[ObberGobb]

The problem is that basically every important character afterward fought the Vendice, or fought someone who fought the Vendice. Chrome herself fought one alongside Mukuro, and she helped him beat it. I just think that Tsuna jumping from City to Planetary makes no sense, especially when we are given multipliers by Enma himself about how much stronger he is than pre-Vongola Gear Tsuna.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Should we call staffs for this?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Honestly, after readed the thread i'm still not sure if all of these feats being talked are legit or not

And even if it is, VSBW Wiki standards are really strict

 

[Livinmeme]

Funny fact a massive jump in power isnt a outlier, a feat contradicting another feat is a outlier

 

[Antvasima]

@Celestial_Pegasus @Theglassman12 @Dragonmasterxyz @Mefre @Xanxussama1010 @ObberGobb

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this thread please?

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizhaa @CrimsonStarFallen

Your help would also be very appreciated here.

 

[azontr]

This should probably be moved to Content Revision.

 

[SauceGod1.1]

This should probably be moved to Content Revision.

Yeah, the purpose of this thread has been met. Go open a CTR and debate it over there

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Is there someone who want to make the CRT?

 

[Antvasima]

I have moved this thread to the content revisions forum, as requested.

 

[SauceGod1.1]

Man I'm unwatching this thread. Good luck in making Tsuna Planetary.

 

[Elizhaa]

This case seems like Outliers from the evidence above; Bykuran created the place which could be High 3-A and need Energy Equivalent to the Big Bang which is rated 3-A to Low 2-C depending on the circumstance.

A quick question: were the Black Holes valid on this page though because they didn't fully behave like from what I recall?

 

[Livinmeme]

This case seems like Outliers from the evidence above; Bykuran created the place which could be High 3-A and need Energy Equivalent to the Big Bang which is rated 3-A to Low 2-C depending on the circumstance.

A quick question: were the Black Holes valid on this page though because they didn't fully behave like from what I recall?

Why is a outlier tho?

1. Big AP upgrades arent inherently outliers
2. He used a technique to do that

 

[Violatas]

This case seems like Outliers from the evidence above; Bykuran created the place which could be High 3-A and need Energy Equivalent to the Big Bang which is rated 3-A to Low 2-C depending on the circumstance.

A quick question: were the Black Holes valid on this page though because they didn't fully behave like from what I recall?

Me and Yukasama already responded to the top part. Byakuran didn't create that island. It was just some uninhabited island he happened to find.

Were the black holes valid

Up to you. I think they meet enough of the requirements tho. Stated that light can't escape, Enma makes them through grav manip, Reborn perfectly describes how black holes are made, etc.

 

[Rez]

A quick question: were the Black Holes valid on this page though because they didn't fully behave like from what I recall?

Some more context for the black hole
Gravity manip was used for black hole creation, light can't escape it and it was stated that destroying a black hole requires energy equavalent to a big bang

 

[YungManzi]

Honestly, the only thing unrealistic about the black holes is the lack of large scale environmental destruction that would happen as a result of having such large BHs on earth.

But that's akin to saying One Piece light beams aren't light speed because they explode upon contact and real light doesn't do that.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, Elizhaa.

 

[ObberGobb]

So, according to Elizhaa, the upgrade would be considered an outlier by the wiki, and the black holes wouldn't meet the wiki's standards for treating black holes as real anyway? Because that basically sums up my opposition to it. If there were more feats from anyone I'd be more open to it, but as it stands right now, there is really just one ambiguous feat with nothing else to really support it.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, I suppose that it might be best to close this.

 

[YungManzi]

So, according to Elizhaa, the upgrade would be considered an outlier by the wiki, and the black holes wouldn't meet the wiki's standards for treating black holes as real anyway? Because that basically sums up my opposition to it. If there were more feats from anyone I'd be more open to it, but as it stands right now, there is really just one ambiguous feat with nothing else to really support it.

I agree it's an outlier. I don't agree they shouldn't be treated as real black holes though, but since it won't be accepted either way it's kind of a moot point to argue.

No upgrade here.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so is it fine if I close this then?

 

[ObberGobb]

I think so, yeah

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so. Thank you to everybody who helped out here.