TSO Resistance

[YoutubeForKing]

All Otsosuki (minus the halfbreeds and boruto/kawaki) should get resistance to TSO (A likely would suffice too due to vagueness)
In the databooks we get this interesting statement.

(best quality i could find on google lol)

Spoiler: Translation 1

"Kicking a Truth-Seeking Sphere! Surpassing kurama a vast amount of chakra enables this risky event" Source: Just search up "six paths sage mode databook" on google

Spoiler: Translation 2

"Kicking the Truth-Seeking Ball! Exceeding the Kurama Mode, a feat accomplished by a huge chakra." Source: Look for the words "Six Paths Sage Mode"

Spoiler: Translation 3

"Kicking away a Truthseeker Orb! A feat of immense chakra surpassing Kurama Mode" Source

All 3 of these translations support that Large Chakra Reserves give resistance to TSO rather than having Six Paths.

Spoiler: TSO crafting

Even making TSO is just described as combining all 5 chakra natures + ying/yang meaning anyone can make them having six paths just gives you the fundamentals releases that allows you to make them.

There are some contentions with things like chakra amounts, for example earth when compared to other planets. We know that earth gives the ability of immortality but we don't the amount of chakra it has when compared to other planets. For example we see that isshiki is telling code to eat planets and we see some planets that have water meaning they'd have life, and planets that even have their own ring systems. These could be ranging from tiny pluto planets to even giants like saturn.
Theres a lot of vagueness on how chakra and planets are connected, if it was by the beings living on them then the star momoshiki absorbed chakra from in the novels would have no chakra to give due to it being inhabitable.

My interpretation is different planets give different special abilities as supported by isshiki's statement here, while the chakra amount gained from them depends on unknown factors. Otsosuki are just playing a roulette game, each planet comes with it a new ability and more chakra added on to their reserves.

Agree:@Suigetsuhyugs
Possibly: @Deceived3596 @Arc7Kuroi
Disagree: @Godernet @Damage3245 @UchihaSlayer96
Neutral: @CraigTucker @Stryker861 @AnimesFreak2

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Ishiki absorbed parts of his 10 tails and despite that ten tails being much smaller all juubis are natural energy which means Ishiki was also a jinshuriki of the 10 tails like kaguya, so its very likely he had the ability to create TSO he probably thinks they are useless.

 

[YoutubeForKing]

Ishiki absorbed parts of his 10 tails and despite that ten tails being much smaller all juubis are natural energy which means Ishiki was also a jinshuriki of the 10 tails like kaguya, so its very likely he had the ability to create TSO he probably thinks they are useless.

Creating tso isn't jinjurichi or six paths related iirc.

Its stated their just the combination of all 5 natures + ying and yang its just in P2 characters who have that are so far and wide thats its only six paths users and jinjurichi.

Also thats not how becoming a jinjurichi works im pretty sure you would just get tailed beast chakra amps like regen which is most likely the reason he was doing that.

But i do agree narratively those orbs should just bounce off of someone like kinshiki, momoshiki, isshiki etc

 

[CraigTucker]

HMMMMMMMMMmm

 

[CraigTucker]

Put me on netural until arguments against this

 

[YoutubeForKing]

Put me on netural until arguments against this

Done.

The only arguments that come againts this would revolve around chakra scaling and claiming that the otsosuki dont have as much chakra as six paths characters, also they would argue that the og ten tails is stronger than any ten tails any otsosuki ever used.

That or they would just find scans to make it seem like TSO is purely six paths and ten tails (although it's weird because don't otsosuki absorb ten tails every-time they destroy a planet.)

 

[Godernet]

I disagree, I’ll get into why in a bit.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Why wouldn't this "large/immense chakra" simply be referring to the Six Paths chakra? This is for a page dedicated to describing Naruto's new Six Paths powers, and in doing so it would simply be using "large/immense chakra" synonymously with Six Paths chakra, because Naruto's SP chakra was indeed large/immense. Basically, I'm saying that statement you quoted is not some broad/generalized quote, but rather it's contextually referring to the Six Path's chakra. So, I disagree atm.

 

[Damage3245]

I think this is too vague to work. I'm against it as well.

 

[Stryker861]

im also nuetral, but i think its refering to the six paths chakra which naruto inherrrited as vast

 

[Stryker861]

I

ik you saw my victor crt damage, you cant hide from me

 

[Godernet]

The issue with that taking these statements at face value is that this entire page is meant to be a direct description of Six Paths Sage Mode.

When it’s stating that Naruto’s “Vast Chakra” is the catalyst of this feat it’s referring to the chakra he uses in this form(which is innately Six Path Senjutsu)

Not to mention its far to vague to be used over the source material that directly implies Six Paths Senjutsu is needed to touch the TSO and resist its effects.

 

[Deceived3596]

I don't agree with Arc and Godernet's interpretation, I'll explain why later.

 

[Deceived3596]

So as a preface, I'm not knowledgeable on Naruto, so take everything I'm saying with a grain of salt until more knowledgeable people either corroborate what I'm saying or disagree with me.

Both @Arc7Kuroi and @Godernet have made the argument that contextually, when the databook statement reference "immense chakra" it's specifically talking about SPSM Chakra, with SPSM Chakra supposedly having an innate property which allows it to resist and (or) negate the offensive capabilities of TSO's. So this statement couldn't be used to scale with just general, bog-standard chakra that people have, regardless of amount.

I don't agree with this interpretation; while yes the statement is referencing six paths chakra, it's specifically referencing the amount of chakra which allows it to resist the offensive effects of TSO's. It doesn't reference an innate property. It's equally as probable (within a vacuum) that SPSM just grants Naruto a massive quantity of this specific chakra type without that chakra type having this innate property of negation.

What i'm saying in a more direct manner is that if you gave Naruto an equal amount of regular chakra he would be just as capable of resisting the effects of TSO's as he was with the six paths chakra because the reason why he was able to resist the effects was because of the amount of chakra he had, not necessarily the exact type of chakra he had.

If evidence can be provided to the contrary then I'm all ears, but currently I agree with scaling people who have more chakra than that version of Naruto to have a resistance to the effects of TSO's.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So as a preface, I'm not knowledgeable on Naruto, so take everything I'm saying with a grain of salt until more knowledgeable people either corroborate what I'm saying or disagree with me.

Auto ignored

Both @Arc7Kuroi and @Godernet have made the argument that contextually, when the databook statement reference "immense chakra" it's specifically talking about SPSM Chakra, with SPSM Chakra supposedly having an innate property which allows it to resist and (or) negate the offensive capabilities of TSO's. So this statement couldn't be used to scale with just general, bog-standard chakra that people have, regardless of amount.

I don't agree with this interpretation; while yes the statement is referencing six paths chakra, it's specifically referencing the amount of chakra which allows it to resist the offensive effects of TSO's. It doesn't reference an innate property. It's equally as probable (within a vacuum) that SPSM just grants Naruto a massive quantity of this specific chakra type without that chakra type having this innate property of negation.

What i'm saying in a more direct manner is that if you gave Naruto an equal amount of regular chakra he would be just as capable of resisting the effects of TSO's as he was with the six paths chakra because the reason why he was able to resist the effects was because of the amount of chakra he had, not necessarily the exact type of chakra he had.

If evidence can be provided to the contrary then I'm all ears, but currently I agree with scaling people who have more chakra than that version of Naruto to have a resistance to the effects of TSO's.

Another reason we believe it is contextually referring to the Six Path's chakra, is because the manga also states/shows that senjutsu is a means of resisting TSOs (whole thing with nature energy and that), and part of the Six Path's power Naruto gained was Six Path's senjutsu. Which is still senjutsu. Explaining how Nardo could resist it. Hence, why I'd disagree with you, and remain with the stance that "large chakra" is inherently in reference to the Six Paths chakra Nard obtained.

Regardless, the statement doesn't need to explicitly reference an innate property of SP chakra and whatnot. The reference can be implicit from visual or textual contextualization. Like let's say there's a statement "base Grimmjow has the power to destroy Las Noches" and it is on a page depicting the Gran Rey Cero. That statement makes no reference to a specific technique, it merely references Grimmjow's power; however, we know it would be referring to the GRC b/c of the visual context of the statement + the textual context from the manga. This is a similar case here. We know from the manga that Naruto gaining SP senjutsu would enable him to resist the negative effects of the TSO, then the databook makes a vague statement regarding his Six Path's empowered state, but we can still conclude based on the visual and textual context, that it isn't a generalized statement for anyone with a lot of chakra.

 

[Deceived3596]

Auto ignored

It's so real.

Another reason we believe it is contextually referring to the Six Path's chakra, is because the manga also states/shows that senjutsu is a means of resisting TSOs (whole thing with nature energy and that), and part of the Six Path's power Naruto gained was Six Path's senjutsu. Which is still senjutsu. Explaining how Nardo could resist it. Hence, why I'd disagree with you, and remain with the stance that "large chakra" is inherently in reference to the Six Paths chakra Nard obtained.

I don't disagree that it's in reference to Six Path's chakra, the contention at hand is if Six Path's chakra specifically grants this resistance or not. I don't agree that it does given the current evidence.

I agree that it's probable that the Senjutsu aspect of Six Path's chakra allows it to resist the effects of TSO's, which would disallow it for scaling with bog-standard regular chakra. But I have a question, is it stated specifically that one must use senjutsu to negate the properties of TSO's or is it only shown that senjutsu can negate the properties of TSO's?

I'm asking because the former would necessarily disprove it scaling to bog-standard chakra but that latter wouldn't because the reason why I'm arguing that it can negate those properties is because of the amount of chakra, I could just easily argue that no-one during that time period had enough chakra to actually interact with the TSO's without it damaging themselves, and instead they required senjutsu as TSO's are also weak against senjutsu because of the whole nature energy shit.

Regardless, the statement doesn't need to explicitly reference an innate property of SP chakra and whatnot. The reference can be implicit from visual or textual contextualization. Like let's say there's a statement "base Grimmjow has the power to destroy Las Noches" and it is on a page depicting the Gran Rey Cero. That statement makes no reference to a specific technique, it merely references Grimmjow's power; however, we know it would be referring to the GRC b/c of the visual context of the statement + the textual context from the manga. This is a similar case here. We know from the manga that Naruto gaining SP senjutsu would enable him to resist the negative effects of the TSO, then the databook makes a vague statement regarding his Six Path's empowered state, but we can still conclude based on the visual and textual context, that it isn't a generalized statement for anyone with a lot of chakra.

Sure, I agree it doesn't need to explicitly reference an innate property for an innate property to exist, that's why I'm asking for evidence of this innate property existing, either through implicit or explicit events.

I addressed the SP senjutsu above, so I'll wait until that question is answered before commenting on this section of your post.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

But, like, later.

 

[Godernet]

So as a preface, I'm not knowledgeable on Naruto, so take everything I'm saying with a grain of salt until more knowledgeable people either corroborate what I'm saying or disagree with me.

Both @Arc7Kuroi and @Godernet have made the argument that contextually, when the databook statement reference "immense chakra" it's specifically talking about SPSM Chakra, with SPSM Chakra supposedly having an innate property which allows it to resist and (or) negate the offensive capabilities of TSO's. So this statement couldn't be used to scale with just general, bog-standard chakra that people have, regardless of amount.

I don't agree with this interpretation; while yes the statement is referencing six paths chakra, it's specifically referencing the amount of chakra which allows it to resist the offensive effects of TSO's. It doesn't reference an innate property. It's equally as probable (within a vacuum) that SPSM just grants Naruto a massive quantity of this specific chakra type without that chakra type having this innate property of negation.

What i'm saying in a more direct manner is that if you gave Naruto an equal amount of regular chakra he would be just as capable of resisting the effects of TSO's as he was with the six paths chakra because the reason why he was able to resist the effects was because of the amount of chakra he had, not necessarily the exact type of chakra he had.

If evidence can be provided to the contrary then I'm all ears, but currently I agree with scaling people who have more chakra than that version of Naruto to have a resistance to the effects of TSO's.

While I see what you mean as far as the statement putting emphasis on the vast amount of chakra rather than the quality of it, the manga itself is more supporting of our interpretation for a couple of reasons.

For one, there are other individuals like Hashirama(Who stated Kurama Mode Naruto almost had as much chakra as he did) yet was completely immobilized by the TSO.

Yet you have a dying Obito who has a half of Kuramas chakra and a small piece of The One and Eight tails could barely fend off Zetsu from taking control of his body still able to use TSOs like normal.

If a chakra surpassing Kurama Mode is what is necessary for touching or using TSO then Obito does not meet that requirement yet can still use them.

Not to mention this vague databook is the only time where chakra amount is referenced as relevant to touching TSO at all.

Given that it’s not the only way to interpret this statement and it’s a small excerpt in an entire page dedicated to highlighting the feats of this form based entirely on Senjutsu I don’t see a reason we would choose the far more vague interpretation.

 

[Deceived3596]

I'm gonna get rat packed by three goobers, it's so joever :Crydo:.

While I see what you mean as far as the statement putting emphasis on the vast amount of chakra rather than the quality of it, the manga itself is more supporting of our interpretation for a couple of reasons.

For one, there are other individuals like Hashirama(Who stated Kurama Mode Naruto almost had as much chakra as he did) yet was completely immobilized by the TSO.

Yet you have a dying Obito who has a half of Kuramas chakra and a small piece of The One and Eight tails could barely fend off Zetsu from taking control of his body still able to use TSOs like normal.

If a chakra surpassing Kurama Mode is what is necessary for touching or using TSO then Obito does not meet that requirement yet can still use them.

The statement doesn't actually say that just surpassing Kurama Mode is all that's needed to touch TSO's without them damaging yourself, what it is actually saying/implying is that the chakra amount that Naruto gains is specifically surpassing his Kurama Mode self because SPSM is above Kurama Mode. It doesn't actually give an exact, known range at when your chakra reaches a specific amount that you can interact with TSO's without suffering those adverse effects, we can deductively assume that if you're at least as strong as SPSM Naruto you can grab and interact with TSO's but even then that's an assumption, we just don't know ultimately.

It's also because of this, alongside some other factors that I only agree with a possibly rating at most.

Also didn't that version of Obito pierce through Juubi Madara, idk if that would be an anti-feat ngl.

 

[Godernet]

I'm gonna get rat packed by three goobers, it's so joever :Crydo:.

:Ussop laugh:

None of the statements say that just surpassing Kurama Mode is necessary for touching TSO's without them damaging oneself, it's only saying that the chakra amount that Naruto gains is specifically surpassing his Kurama Mode self. It doesn't actually give a range at when your chakra reaches a specific amount that you can interact with TSO's, we can deductively assume that if you're at least as strong as SPSM Naruto you can grab and interact with TSO's but even then that's an assumption, we just don't know ultimately.

Even if we were to say Exceeding Kurama Mode isn’t the prerequisite, That version of Obito has relative if not inferior chakra to individuals that were affected by TSO.

Obito’s own supply was stated to be nearing its limit on a few separate occasions by that point, and Half of Kurama should not be enough to make someone resistant to TSO as we see that people with similar chakra levels to him. (KCM Minato and Sage Hashirama) are still affected.

Also didn't that version of Obito pierce through Juubi Madara, idk if that would be an anti-feat ngl.

Iirc that’s perceived as more of an off guard since Madara believed Obito was completely under the control of Zetsu by that point and was just coming over to give him the Nine Tails.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Deceived, I think you don't understand, because, as you admitted, you don't read Naruto. However, Six Path's senjutsu, which Naruto gets as per this "large chakra" is already portrayed and stated to grant resistance to the TSOs in the manga itself.

So, irrespective of the databook statement, Naruto is able to resist TSOs thanks to the senjutsu, specifically that which he gets from his Six Paths power. We are arguing that with the manga context + the fact that the databook is describing what Naruto gained thanks to his Six Paths powers is reiterating this, that "large chakra" is simply contextually referring to the Six Paths chakra and not large amounts of chakra in general.

 

[Deceived3596]

Even if we were to say Exceeding Kurama Mode isn’t the prerequisite, That version of Obito has relative if not inferior chakra to individuals that were affected by TSO.

Obito’s own supply was stated to be nearing its limit on a few separate occasions by that point, and Kurama himself should not be enough to make someone resistant to TSO as we see that people with similar chakra levels to him. (KCM Minato and Sage Hashirama) are still affected.

Does this version of Obito have senjutsu?

Because if he does then that wouldn't be an anti-feat against my interpretation as I already conceded that senjutsu is a counter towards the TSO's effects. I'm just presenting another counter, which is excessive amounts of chakra.

Iirc that’s perceived as more of an off guard since Madara believed Obito was completely under the control of Zetsu by that point and was just coming over to give him the Nine Tails.

Aight.

Deceived, I think you don't understand, because, as you admitted, you don't read Naruto. However, Six Path's senjutsu, which Naruto gets as per this "large chakra" is already portrayed and stated to grant resistance to the TSOs in the manga itself.

So, irrespective of the databook statement, Naruto is able to resist TSOs thanks to the senjutsu, specifically that which he gets from his Six Paths power. We are arguing that with the manga context + the fact that the databook is describing what Naruto gained thanks to his Six Paths powers is reiterating this, that "large chakra" is simply contextually referring to the Six Paths chakra and not large amounts of chakra in general.

Maybe, but I don't currently think it has to do with my lack of knowledge given the arguments that have been presented.

I don't disagree with you that senjutsu has shown those properties, what I'm disagreeing with you on is the "inherent-ness" of your claim. I don't agree that because senjutsu has shown nullifying properties against TSO's it means that excessive chakra amounts isn't also a counter towards it as well when it can be interpreted as such through the databook statement. I'm not seeing the contradiction you're implying to exist tbh.

We'll have to agree to disagree until Slayer drops his post ig.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

We'll have to agree to disagree until Slayer drops his post ig.

That's chill, I'm not really gonna push back on you too much since your proposal has switched to possibly. I still disagree with the OP outright, but we'd be splitting hairs among the two of us at that point.

 

[Deceived3596]

That's chill, I'm not really gonna push back on you too much since your proposal has switched to possibly. I still disagree with the OP outright, but we'd be splitting hairs among the two of us at that point.

Also my proposal has always been a possibly rating at most, should've made that clearer in my posts.

 

[Godernet]

Does this version of Obito have senjutsu?

Because if he does then that wouldn't be an anti-feat against my interpretation as I already conceded that senjutsu is a counter towards the TSO's effects. I'm just presenting another counter, which is excessive amounts of chakra.

Yes, every Obito after he became the Juubi’s Jinchuuriki has Six Paths Senjutsu. He’s even referenced to still have it after coming back from the dead to give Kakashi both Mangekyō temporarily.

However even then the interpretation this OP is suggesting doesn’t have any actual in story examples or implications that would give it any kind of weight over it just being a product of SP Senjutsu.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Also my proposal has always been a possibly rating at most, should've made that clearer in my posts.

I gotchu baby boo

 

[Godernet]

Oh wait you’ve been fighting for a possibly this whole time? That’s crazy

might as well wait for Slayer to drop his points meat on this thread.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Me watching y'all argue about this:

 

[Deceived3596]

Me watching y'all argue about this:

Dirty ass feet.

@Damage3245 pack this man up.

 

[Godernet]

So joever

 

[TheGod]

I'm against it, The text could also just refer to the actual act of kicking the TSO away rather then resisting it, we don't know their mass but if we go by implication its prob very heavy.

 

[Nierre]

...?

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Neutral for now

 

[YoutubeForKing]

I'm against it, The text could also just refer to the actual act of kicking the TSO away rather then resisting it, we don't know their mass but if we go by implication its prob very heavy.

lol you'd get erased before that and the author knows that.

Oh wait you’ve been fighting for a possibly this whole time? That’s crazy

Possible is good too

 

[YoutubeForKing]

That's chill, I'm not really gonna push back on you too much since your proposal has switched to possibly. I still disagree with the OP outright, but we'd be splitting hairs among the two of us at that point.

All Otsosuki (minus the halfbreeds and boruto/kawaki) should get resistance to TSO (A likely would suffice too due to vagueness)

Whats your opinon on a likely?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Whats your opinon on a likely?

I’m fine with a possibly

 

[YoutubeForKing]

Me watching y'all argue about this:

Hey are you neutral, agree, disagree or are fine with a possibly?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Hey are you neutral, agree, disagree or are fine with a possibly?

Fully disagree, but I'll get to it later. Pretty busy atm.

 

[TheGod]

lol you'd get erased before that and the author knows that.

for Interpretation, one can just say six path sage chakra granted resistance first while the text refers to the act of kicking it away, not just resisting it.

 

[CraigTucker]

Me watching y'all argue every second for naruto