TSO Resistance

[Arc7Kuroi]

Didn't see the text below the image so I was so confused

 

[YoutubeForKing]

for Interpretation, one can just say six path sage chakra granted resistance first while the text refers to the act of kicking it away, not just resisting it.

Thats dumb you would have to make an assumption that TSO require lifting strength above class T which was never stated

 

[TheGod]

Thats dumb you would have to make an assumption that TSO require lifting strength above class T which was never stated

KCM1 Naruto wasn't able to lift a rasengan made of bijuu chakra iirc, TSO EXPLICITLY is high density chakra so it could weight a lot more then that even so I can see it requiring great physical strength.

 

[theultimate5105]

Might Guy had a massive amount of chakra and he didn’t resist it

anyways it would be a much better argument to argue that chakra fruits are purely nature energy so they resist it through that

so disagree FRA

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Okay, I'm now going to try and explain why I disagree with this as best I can and as concisely as I can because I don't have the wind for any more long posts after the Bijuu thread lol.

First things first, there's something we need to clear up. Senjutsu does not actually grant you resistance to the TSO's effects, at least not physically. The resistance is only granted to your Senjutsu-Chakra enhanced Jutsu. People in Sage Mode are still very much susceptible, though. Tobirama implies it, and it's directly confirmed through SM Minato permanently losing his other arm. This is why BSM Naruto and Senjutsu Susano'o Sasuke only fought Juubito in their megazords, which are considered Jutsu.

Now for the main argument with the "massive/huge/immense chakra" statement from the DB. Yeah, this doesn't really work.
The interpretation that you only need a large enough chakra quantity doesn't really hold up. We have 8th Gate Guy, whose chakra was directly acknowledged by Madara, and who was objectively more powerful than Madara. Hell, we even have empirical evidence that he's far more powerful than the TSO itself, yet he was still going to get erased by the TSO nonetheless. Minato, Gaara, Kakashi, and Lee had to go through all the trouble they did just so that Guy never comes into contact with the TSOs. So quite frankly, the idea that you can resist their effects simply by being at a certain level of strength is pretty silly.

Also the interpretation presented in the OP just doesn't work in general. If chakra exceeding Kurama Mode was all that's required, then BSM Naruto would have no issues interacting with the TSOs without his Jutsu. Same goes for Guy, as explained above, and SM Hashirama, as he was stated to have more chakra than Kurama Mode Naruto in base. It's also important to realize that this interpretation most likely isn't what was intended. Are we supposed to think that Madara is flabbergasted at Naruto being able to touch the TSO simply due to the power required to do so when he has personally witnessed numerous characters be able to match or exceed their raw power up to that point? It's important to note that the context thus far, especially with the Guy stuff, is that it's an absolute death sentence to be injured by the TSOs, even when you're clearly comparable or superior to the TSO user in power. The only exceptions are Senjutsu enhanced Ninjutsu and characters who have Six Paths Chakra. So which is the more likely explanation here? The one that's directly contradicted or the one that offers no issues whatsoever and fits neatly with all the information we have to work with?

Another issue with this interpretation is that it's impossible to quantify, like at all. With a few notable exceptions, it's actually impossible to really tell who has a greater chakra amount than Naruto. We can't just arbitrarily assume that stronger characters have more chakra volume either, as Chakra Volume and Chakra Potency do not always correlate 1:1. The most simple example is just Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto has objectively more chakra than Sasuke, yet Sasuke was able to match Naruto's power at multiple points in the series. That's because he has chakra that's equally as potent as Naruto's, but he does not have the same amount, or anywhere near it. So even if we grant that Naruto only resisted the effects due to an arbitrary chakra level, it still wouldn't be possible to scale every Otsutsuki to this based on that, because ya'll have no real proof that they possess more chakra than Naruto, with the exception of Kaguya and perhaps Hagoromo.
Sasuke also throws a massive wrench into this idea, as he has less chakra than Naruto and is even weaker, yet he can still resist the effects.
All of these facts can only be reconciled with the interpretation that SPC offers inherent resistance. The other interpretation simply has way too many contradictions going against it.

As such, I fully disagree with the thread and believe things should remain as they have been.

 

[YoutubeForKing]

Might Guy had a massive amount of chakra and he didn’t resist it

Now for the main argument with the "massive/huge/immense chakra" statement from the DB. Yeah, this doesn't really work.
The interpretation that you only need a large enough chakra quantity doesn't really hold up. We have 8th Gate Guy, whose chakra was directly acknowledged by Madara, and who was objectively more powerful than Madara. Hell, we even have empirical evidence that he's far more powerful than the TSO itself, yet he was still going to get erased by the TSO nonetheless. Minato, Gaara, Kakashi, and Lee had to go through all the trouble they did just so that Guy never comes into contact with the TSOs. So quite frankly, the idea that you can resist their effects simply by being at a certain level of strength is pretty silly.

I still dont see how this debunk works as im not arguing 8th gate tier characters resistance nor am i arguing characters who are above kurama chakra mode rather only otsosuki who are confirmed to take in planetary amounts of chakra just to simply exist.
In the OP it only says full blooded otsosuki and I deliberately left out characters such as the half breeds and karma ones because we have no idea if they have eaten a planetary amount of chakra.

Also the interpretation presented in the OP just doesn't work in general. If chakra exceeding Kurama Mode was all that's required, then BSM Naruto would have no issues interacting with the TSOs without his Jutsu. Same goes for Guy, as explained above, and SM Hashirama, as he was stated to have more chakra than Kurama Mode Naruto in base. It's also important to realize that this interpretation most likely isn't what was intended. Are we supposed to think that Madara is flabbergasted at Naruto being able to touch the TSO simply due to the power required to do so when he has personally witnessed numerous characters be able to match or exceed their raw power up to that point? It's important to note that the context thus far, especially with the Guy stuff, is that it's an absolute death sentence to be injured by the TSOs, even when you're clearly comparable or superior to the TSO user in power. The only exceptions are Senjutsu enhanced Ninjutsu and characters who have Six Paths Chakra. So which is the more likely explanation here? The one that's directly contradicted or the one that offers no issues whatsoever and fits neatly with all the information we have to work with?

Another issue with this interpretation is that it's impossible to quantify, like at all. With a few notable exceptions, it's actually impossible to really tell who has a greater chakra amount than Naruto. We can't just arbitrarily assume that stronger characters have more chakra volume either, as Chakra Volume and Chakra Potency do not always correlate 1:1. The most simple example is just Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto has objectively more chakra than Sasuke, yet Sasuke was able to match Naruto's power at multiple points in the series. That's because he has chakra that's equally as potent as Naruto's, but he does not have the same amount, or anywhere near it. So even if we grant that Naruto only resisted the effects due to an arbitrary chakra level, it still wouldn't be possible to scale every Otsutsuki to this based on that, because ya'll have no real proof that they possess more chakra than Naruto, with the exception of Kaguya and perhaps Hagoromo.
Sasuke also throws a massive wrench into this idea, as he has less chakra than Naruto and is even weaker, yet he can still resist the effects.
All of these facts can only be reconciled with the interpretation that SPC offers inherent resistance. The other interpretation simply has way too many contradictions going against it.

This isn't what im arguing, im not arguing anything for chakra potency as thats legit only relevant for non otsosuki nor am i arguing that exceeding kurama mode is all thats required.
If I was arguing this resistance to be more open i would of included characters that are included to debunk my argument such as BSM Naruto or 8th gate guy, rather im only using it on characters who would even have more chakra than even kaguya due to them absorbing more planets which if anything should be larger than earth.

Chakra potency and the type of chakra would definitely play a role, however the databooks suggest chakra volume alone is enough and for characters who are capable of surviving tso without mentioning any of these other factors. In fact the same databook literally says chakra potency is irrelevant as refining your chakra plays too small of a role in six paths sage mode.

My arguments strictly refer to chakra volume and only to characters who have volumes far exceeding that of ones before.
Instead of anyone above KCM2 naruto or 8th gate guy getting these resistances, its anyone who has absorbed multiple planetary bodies worth of chakra and that can quite literally only be applied to Otsosuki, not andriods and not characters who have fit into boruto's bad power scaling such as the 5 kage, kara, etc.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I still dont see how this debunk works as im not arguing 8th gate tier characters resistance nor am i arguing characters who are above kurama chakra mode rather only otsosuki who are confirmed to take in planetary amounts of chakra just to simply exist.
In the OP it only says full blooded otsosuki and I deliberately left out characters such as the half breeds and karma ones because we have no idea if they have eaten a planetary amount of chakra.

Not all chakra fruits are created equally, and not all of them have the same quality as Earth's fruit. This is proven by the fact that someone like Momoshiki was very impressed by mere fragment's of the Earth's divine tree, that being Kurama and Gyuki. You can't prove that any of these Otsutsuki have more chakra than Naruto, just like you can't prove that a certain chakra level is what's required to resist the TSOs.

This isn't what im arguing, im not arguing anything for chakra potency as thats legit only relevant for non otsosuki nor am i arguing that exceeding kurama mode is all thats required.
If I was arguing this resistance to be more open i would of included characters that are included to debunk my argument such as BSM Naruto or 8th gate guy, rather im only using it on characters who would even have more chakra than even kaguya due to them absorbing more planets which if anything should be larger than earth.

Well, as I've stated, you cannot argue for that at all because it is directly contradicted and provably false.

My arguments strictly refer to chakra volume and only to characters who have volumes far exceeding that of ones before.
Instead of anyone above KCM2 naruto or 8th gate guy getting these resistances, its anyone who has absorbed multiple planetary bodies worth of chakra and that can quite literally only be applied to Otsosuki, not andriods and not characters who have fit into boruto's bad power scaling such as the 5 kage, kara, etc.

You can't make that correlation, I'm afraid. There's no evidence for it.

 

[YoutubeForKing]

Not all chakra fruits are created equally, and not all of them have the same quality as Earth's fruit. This is proven by the fact that someone like Momoshiki was very impressed by mere fragment's of the Earth's divine tree, that being Kurama and Gyuki. You can't prove that any of these Otsutsuki have more chakra than Naruto, just like you can't prove that a certain chakra level is what's required to resist the TSOs.

Momoshiki being impressed doesn't exactly mean he has less chakra than anyone there, and earths fruit was only seen as important because of the ability it granted not because it provided a large amount of chakra or any other factor which is what I addressed in the OP. And the same way you cant prove the otsosuki have more chakra than Naruto you can't prove Naruto has more chakra than them only that they were impressed by the amount he had.

Well, as I've stated, you cannot argue for that at all because it is directly contradicted and provably false.

What contradicts or proves it false?

You can't make that correlation, I'm afraid. There's no evidence for it.

This databook page is the evidence for it.

 

[YoutubeForKing]

Okay, I'm now going to try and explain why I disagree with this as best I can and as concisely as I can because I don't have the wind for any more long posts after the Bijuu thread lol.

First things first, there's something we need to clear up. Senjutsu does not actually grant you resistance to the TSO's effects, at least not physically. The resistance is only granted to your Senjutsu-Chakra enhanced Jutsu. People in Sage Mode are still very much susceptible, though. Tobirama implies it, and it's directly confirmed through SM Minato permanently losing his other arm. This is why BSM Naruto and Senjutsu Susano'o Sasuke only fought Juubito in their megazords, which are considered Jutsu.

Now for the main argument with the "massive/huge/immense chakra" statement from the DB. Yeah, this doesn't really work.
The interpretation that you only need a large enough chakra quantity doesn't really hold up. We have 8th Gate Guy, whose chakra was directly acknowledged by Madara, and who was objectively more powerful than Madara. Hell, we even have empirical evidence that he's far more powerful than the TSO itself, yet he was still going to get erased by the TSO nonetheless. Minato, Gaara, Kakashi, and Lee had to go through all the trouble they did just so that Guy never comes into contact with the TSOs. So quite frankly, the idea that you can resist their effects simply by being at a certain level of strength is pretty silly.

We never really get any statements to how strong TSO are physically though and he's using madara's TSO resistant body to break through them.
I've never argued that physical strength gets you through TSO, i said chakra volume and madara acknowledging Guys chakra speaks nothing on the volume of his chakra just the potency of it.

Also the interpretation presented in the OP just doesn't work in general. If chakra exceeding Kurama Mode was all that's required, then BSM Naruto would have no issues interacting with the TSOs without his Jutsu. Same goes for Guy, as explained above, and SM Hashirama, as he was stated to have more chakra than Kurama Mode Naruto in base. It's also important to realize that this interpretation most likely isn't what was intended. Are we supposed to think that Madara is flabbergasted at Naruto being able to touch the TSO simply due to the power required to do so when he has personally witnessed numerous characters be able to match or exceed their raw power up to that point? It's important to note that the context thus far, especially with the Guy stuff, is that it's an absolute death sentence to be injured by the TSOs, even when you're clearly comparable or superior to the TSO user in power. The only exceptions are Senjutsu enhanced Ninjutsu and characters who have Six Paths Chakra. So which is the more likely explanation here? The one that's directly contradicted or the one that offers no issues whatsoever and fits neatly with all the information we have to work with?

Ofc madara would be flabbergasted he just beat both of them and now they can go againts this god-like power he got on top of that.
Those multiple characters being strong still have nothing to do with chakra volume.

What im arguing literally changes nothing as it affects nobody under the otsosuki.
Ten tails still has more chakra than everyone you've used to debunk my argument and even he only has a small planetary amount of chakra.
Contradictions can be explained by chakra potency

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

and earths fruit was only seen as important because of the ability it granted not because it provided a large amount of chakra or any other factor which is what I addressed in the OP.

this is cap, the earth is specifically outlined for being special because of its curvature, which is much larger than most planets, this is made even more true when we learn about people like Shibai.

 

[Deceived3596]

I've read through Slayer's post and there are things I agree with, but there are also things I disagree with. I wish I wasn't sick anymore so I could explain myself in further depth, and have a fruitful back and forth, but it just isn't the time right now for making long posts. Which would be needed to address everything I wish to address.

If this thread isn't closed by then, I'll address everything I disagree with at a later date.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Man dropped a whole ass nothing burger, get well soon bubby

 

[Deceived3596]

+

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Get well soon bubba

 

[YoutubeForKing]

this is cap, the earth is specifically outlined for being special because of its curvature, which is much larger than most planets, this is made even more true when we learn about people like Shibai.

How does shibai play a role in it and earth was outlined because of the strong people on it rather than the planet itself is that not the case?

From isshiki's explanation whoever dies on the planet becomes power for the chakra fruit meaning that kaguya who died once she was sealed would be the one bringing earth to these heights rather than just the planet itself.

The momoshiki curvature statement was made after kaguya's death and so it shouldn't be applicable to the chakra fruit before she died which should still of granted immortality.

 

[Sasukesama0492]

Can characters with six path chakras be resistant to reality warping?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Can characters with six path chakras be resistant to reality warping?

Nope.