Trinity Seven upgrade

[Grabbing_dragon]

Honestly of the three realms described here the Akashic Records seem to be what's most convincingly 1-A. Given that:

• Contains all the prototypical concepts that are the source of reality,
• Independent of reality proper
• Contains all spacetime indistinctly in itself
• Stuff about things being contained in the dreams of its residents (Which is also described as "a principle way outside time, space and dimensions")

The counter-counterargument for the last thing, in particular, seems satisfactory enough. So, the Akashic Records being 1-A has my approval. That said, I'm skeptical of the Archives and the Clouds being 1-A, and by extension of the Recorde being High 1-A. There's the visual depiction of the guy in there viewing events as part of a story he writes here, but I don't know what exactly makes this R>F as opposed to some form of Subjective Reality.

And the fact that the Archives are a higher realm than the normal world isn't sufficient to conclude this, because from what I see, the two pieces of information are never correlated in the text; it's not "The Archives are a higher realm, and so the regular world is a story in it," but "We know the Archives are a higher realm, and that this guy somehow views events as within a story." The latter is obviously different from the former because the latter still permits it to be, say, a 4-D or 5-D character creating a 3-D or 4-D reality using Subjective Reality.

Thanks for your evaluation, I guess we lack this, last time got way into the High 1-A.

I think that what Ultima has accepted here can be applied, but not what he has rejected or hasn't accepted yet.

I need more staff for that since, right now, it's only Ultima voting on it. Also, do you agree with Ultima and this page as a cosmology page? I added the things Ultima said and will need to apply the changes and fix the dead AP scans in the profiles using that page once it gets accepted.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not good at evaluating high-tier revisions on my own, but will ping some members who are more skilled in this area.

@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Agnaa @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 @Everything12 @Ovy7 @Rakih_Elyan @IdiosyncraticLawyer @RatherClueless @GrathOfLux @Udlmaster @FinePoint

What do you think about this? Do you agree with Ultima?

 

[FinePoint]

What do you think about this? Do you agree with Ultima?

Well I know nothing about this verse, but Ultima's arguments seem to make logical sense at least.

We've definitely gotten less strict over 1-A semi-recently, but our bar for High 1-A is still very high, and I'm not sure I see enough convincing evidence.

If the OP wants to lay out a simplified scaling chain to try and convince me, it would be encouraged.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Well I know nothing about this verse, but Ultima's arguments seem to make logical sense at least.

We've definitely gotten less strict over 1-A semi-recently, but our bar for High 1-A is still very high, and I'm not sure I see enough convincing evidence.

If the OP wants to lay out a simplified scaling chain to try and convince me, it would be encouraged.

So basically, the high 1A justification is:

First, we have archives/heaven, the first higher-dimensional realm—which is 1A due to R>F.

Clouds form a 1A layer above baseline, making them the second higher-dimensional level.

Then we have gods/Akashic records, whose existence truly surpasses high dimensions. An attack, in order to reach their true form, needs to pierce through and go beyond all dimensional layers. They don't even exist within the same dimensional hierarchy as the rest of the verse, including the higher dimensions. like i said here

While, the Akashic records contain all chaos within themselves. Chaos is a state where everything ceases to exist and becomes one, meaning it lacks differentiation between 1A and non-1A, thus transcending the quality that defines 1A layers.

So, they are high 1A due to transcending potential layers of 1A and the quality between them. They belong to a different, higher hierarchy, which fits the high 1A requirements very well.

 

[FinePoint]

So basically, the high 1A justification is:

First, we have archives/heaven, the first higher-dimensional realm—which is 1A due to R>F.

Clouds form a 1A layer above baseline, making them the second higher-dimensional level.

Then we have gods/Akashic records, whose existence truly surpasses high dimensions. An attack, in order to reach their true form, needs to pierce through and go beyond all dimensional layers. They don't even exist within the same dimensional hierarchy as the rest of the verse, including the higher dimensions. like i said here

While, the Akashic records contain all chaos within themselves. Chaos is a state where everything ceases to exist and becomes one, meaning it lacks differentiation between 1A and non-1A, thus transcending the quality that defines 1A layers.

So, they are high 1A due to transcending potential layers of 1A and the quality between them. They belong to a different, higher hierarchy, which fits the high 1A requirements very well.

Well that sounds pretty convincing, but I don't know if I'm missing context, so I'll wait and see if anyone else has thoughts.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Well that sounds pretty convincing, but I don't know if I'm missing context, so I'll wait and see if anyone else has thoughts.

This thread is 100% about to turn a year old, I've been waiting for 11 months! By the way, I summarized things might have been the reason, so you can ask what context you think you're missing.

 

[FinePoint]

This thread is 100% about to turn a year old, I've been waiting for 11 months! By the way, I summarized things might have been the reason, so you can ask what context you think you're missing.

Well it's more that you could be withholding information (intentionally or not) and I would have no way of knowing, since I'm not knowledgeable on the verse.

So I'd prefer if at least one other person with some knowledge at least confirmed that your summary wasn't missing anything important.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Well it's more that you could be withholding information (intentionally or not) and I would have no way of knowing, since I'm not knowledgeable on the verse.

So I'd prefer if at least one other person with some knowledge at least confirmed that your summary wasn't missing anything important.

I'm going to ask him @Ruler_Star_Kuma Right now, he is the only one who is at least knowledgeable about the verse and who is active at the sametime.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

1-A is fine, High 1-A is not.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

So basically, the high 1A justification is:

First, we have archives/heaven, the first higher-dimensional realm—which is 1A due to R>F.

Clouds form a 1A layer above baseline, making them the second higher-dimensional level.

There's things that could impede and or help this here. Considering one of (if not the only one) who sees it in such a way is Mitsui himself (which is where the r>f for Heaven arguments mainly stem from). Though his overall standing is peculiar. I'll try to find what else that I can, though.

Then we have gods/Akashic records, whose existence truly surpasses high dimensions. An attack, in order to reach their true form, needs to pierce through and go beyond all dimensional layers. They don't even exist within the same dimensional hierarchy as the rest of the verse, including the higher dimensions. like i said here

While, the Akashic records contain all chaos within themselves. Chaos is a state where everything ceases to exist and becomes one, meaning it lacks differentiation between 1A and non-1A, thus transcending the quality that defines 1A layers.

So, they are high 1A due to transcending potential layers of 1A and the quality between them. They belong to a different, higher hierarchy, which fits the high 1A requirements very well.

Otherwise this is more fine, 1-A fits with this as it's quite verbatim. If I find something else make my standing for the heaven and cloud portion change then I'll say so.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

I am not good at evaluating high-tier revisions on my own, but will ping some members who are more skilled in this area.

Has what has transferred good enough for you to evaluate? Since a knowledgeable member on high tier agrees with 1A, and a knowledgeable member on the verse also agrees with 1A, as for me, I take whichever one gets the most votes. If you agree with Ultima, that would be good enough to finish this thread. Then, there will be three staff members who agree with 1A ,including the most knowledgeable staff on high tiers, along with someone who is knowledgeable.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, 1-A seems to have been accepted so far, but High 1-A does not seem to have been accepted yet.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Well, 1-A seems to have been accepted so far, but High 1-A does not seem to have been accepted yet.

Not quite, the current votes are:

3 staff members agree with high 1A.
2 staff members agree with 1A.

So whichever one you vote for will be the victor, if it does not become more messed up.

 

[Antvasima]

Please elaborate regarding which staff members that agree with what here.

 

[Antvasima]

@Udlmaster

What do you think about this?

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Please elaborate regarding which staff members that agree with what here.

ActuallySpaceMan42 : agrees with everything ( 1A and high 1A)​

Theglassman12 : agrees with spaceman same with Dereck03 and when you reopened the thread GarrixianXD `s vote stopped counting.​

And for 1A
@Ultima_Reality
@FinePoint

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. For the time being I only agree with 1-A in that case.

 

[SweetDao]

Hmm. For the time being I only agree with 1-A in that case.

Maybe it would be better to apply the 1-A rating and do another thread for the High 1-A? It would help staff members to only focus on the relevant part

 

[Wesker018]

Not quite, the current votes are:

3 staff members agree with high 1A.
2 staff members agree with 1A.

So whichever one you vote for will be the victor, if it does not become more messed up.

Don't forget the fact that neither Derek, Spaceman, nor Glassman have said anything since Ultima's opinion, which is against High 1-A. So continuing the thread with High 1-A accepted without them having seen Ultima's argument against that same tier wouldn't be the right move, in my opinion. We should ask them if they still think High 1-A is valid or if they agree with what Ultima proposed.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Maybe it would be better to apply the 1-A rating and do another thread for the High 1-A? It would help staff members to only focus on the relevant part

I agree with that.

 

[Antvasima]

Please elaborate regarding which staff members that agree with what here.

And for 1-A
@Ultima_Reality
@FinePoint

Hmm. For the time being I only agree with 1-A in that case.

Don't forget the fact that neither Derek, Spaceman, nor Glassman have said anything since Ultima's opinion, which is against High 1-A. So continuing the thread with High 1-A accepted without them having seen Ultima's argument against that same tier wouldn't be the right move, in my opinion. We should ask them if they still think High 1-A is valid or if they agree with what Ultima proposed.

@Dereck03 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Theglassman12

Would you be willing to help out here please?

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Maybe it would be better to apply the 1-A rating and do another thread for the High 1-A? It would help staff members to only focus on the relevant part

I would VERY much rather do this, yeah

 

[Antvasima]

Let's first wait a while for further input from the staff members who I just pinged.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

1-A looks fine to me.

 

[Udlmaster]

@Udlmaster

What do you think about this?

1-A seems fine, there's plenty of evidence from reading through the OP (if there's a summarisation of any further arguments, I would appreciate them).

If the Akashic Record transcends all possible extensions of the Dimensionality of the verse, then I don't see High 1-A being a problem so long as each dimension is 1-A as the OP states.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

After a bit of rereading (Only based on the OP, so feel free to fill in the context).

The Akashic Records should be 1-A due to the many various depictions of it being the source of all the other lower realms and being independent of it. The rest being 1-A is shaky, while you can argue of a metaphysical “time and space” as the dimensional level or hierarchy here (Which is a stretch).

Quite frankly, the many interactions and processes of the story and their timeline intermingle with the beings that supposedly transcend lower beings isn't anything strong enough to support 1-A. Even if it were 1-A, there's no further context to support a High 1-A Akashic Record because the applicant to that transcendence would have a relation of transcendence that's not seen by the Clouds. If not then they're all within the same framework (The dimensional thing is also kinda hard to process. The Akashic being described as the “Fourth Dimension” is fine as 1-A since it’s purely an existential thing which doesn't have properties of time and space, but that's about it, and since it is the highest then I don't see the rest being 1-A). However, the rest falls apart because of that notion because the Fourth Dimension thing doesn't make sense for a dimensional hierarchy which is supposedly 1-A.

Also, how do we know the “map” thing with the seven cardinal sins and whatnot aren't just parallel worlds to each other and the baseline reality only being in a separate space-time instead of a whole metaphysical existence that is aspatial and atemporal? The worlds that aren't the Records seem just as seething outside the normal world and the word “transcend” isn't exactly going to bolster up the rating.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I have my sources and entails telling me some of these translations are wrong.

 

[Udlmaster]

I've just went through the scans, since my first post was a conditional one;

I don't find there to be much merit in the dimensionality argument, as 4-D is considered by the verse to be surpassing Space-Time.

I've also been informed that the translations are not accurate, so for now, the best I can see is 1-A.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Quite frankly, the many interactions and processes of the story and their timeline intermingle with the beings that supposedly transcend lower beings isn't anything strong enough to support 1-A. Even if it were 1-A, there's no further context to support a High 1-A Akashic Record because the applicant to that transcendence would have a relation of transcendence that's not seen by the Clouds. If not then they're all within the same framework (The dimensional thing is also kinda hard to process.

The difference between clouds and gods is that clouds are said to exist in a higher dimension than archives, while gods are considered to be of a different higher-dimensional hierarchy. Therefore, they cannot belong to the same framework. note, we only attempted High 1A due to the archives having R>F. this

Also, how do we know the “map” thing with the seven cardinal sins and whatnot aren't just parallel worlds to each other and the baseline reality only being in a separate space-time instead of a whole metaphysical existence that is aspatial and atemporal? The worlds that aren't the Records seem just as seething outside the normal world and the word “transcend” isn't exactly going to bolster up the rating.

Heaven/archives are the center of all worlds, which includes all parallel worlds. However, only one heaven exists, and each archive represents only one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Additionally, archives themselves are conceptual things and essences themseves.

. However, the rest falls apart because of that notion because the Fourth Dimension thing doesn't make sense for a dimensional hierarchy which is supposedly 1-A.

Dimensions aren't spatial in the verse, as there is no context to prove that. So, that is not an issue.

I have my sources and entails telling me some of these translations are wrong.

I've also been informed that the translations are not accurate, so for now, the best I can see is 1-A.

You've got to be kidding me. I told the OP to add the official translation, but he didn’t

Trinity Seven upgrade

The only thing that 100% in my mind and that will hold my grip at the moment will be the 1-A Akasha Records, since how they portray it in the verse is pretty straightforward. Can't comment on the other stuff rn, since there is some material here that I'm not familiar with yet due to not having...

vsbattles.com

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The difference between clouds and gods is that clouds are said to exist in a higher dimension than archives, while gods are considered to be of a different higher-dimensional hierarchy. Therefore, they cannot belong to the same framework. Additionally, we only attempted High 1A due to the archives having R>F.

The second to last scan says “this space-time” while in the final scan, they're also framed within what they consider a “story.” How is any of that R>F?

Higher dimension according to the verse is 4-D which transcends space-time. So the Archives would be 3-D? Yeah, right not only can't this dimensional hierarchy be qualitative but the merging for all dimensions to come together isn't a spatial term. So they very much are in the same framework.

Heaven/archives are the center of all worlds, which includes all parallel worlds. However, only one heaven exists, and each archive represents only one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Additionally, archives themselves are conceptual things and essences themseves.

Where's the “1-A” ness to any of it?

Dimensions aren't spatial in the verse, as there is no context to prove that. So, that is not an issue.

Yeah, they can also be parallel worlds or planes without any form of R>F or conceptual transcendence.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

The second to last scan says “this space-time” while in the final scan, they're also framed within what they consider a “story.” How is any of that R>F?

I mean that spacetime is a storybook in higher dimension

Higher dimension according to the verse is 4-D which transcends space-time. So the Archives would be 3-D?

Where did it say that higher dimensions are 4D? Also, I think you misunderstood some things.

Where's the “1-A” ness to any of it?

I gave up on it, it would not work, the reason being that only one spacetime or some spacetimes are stories in the higher realm that do not connect at all. When heaven is higher-dimensional compared to all worlds, it would lack this, like Ultima said.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Where did it say that higher dimensions are 4D? Also, I think you misunderstood some things.

They're talking about the description of 'level' from the glossary.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I mean that spacetime is a storybook in higher dimension

Yeah, and we’re supposed to make sense of that in the wiki? There's no indication of R>F other than what you say, so this is just quantitative at best.

Where did it say that higher dimensions are 4D? Also, I think you misunderstood some things.

One of the scans said so. So the higher dimensions in this supposed dimensional hierarchy are not 1-A.

I gave up on it, it would not work, the reason being that only one spacetime or some spacetimes are stories in the higher realm that do not connect at all. When heaven is higher-dimensional compared to all worlds, it would lack this, like Ultima said.

Your description doesn't match what was said in the FAQ even Ultima only agreed to one thing being 1-A. Quite evident comparing “space-time” in a hierarchy as synonyms for stories doesn't mean R>F and quite frankly, it's contradictory.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Yeah, and we’re supposed to make sense of that in the wiki? There's no indication of R>F other than what you say, so this is just quantitative at best.

fine.

One of the scans said so. So the higher dimensions in this supposed dimensional hierarchy are not 1-A.

Okay, since they don't have the feats, and as we already said, dimensions aren't spatial .

Your description doesn't match what was said in the FAQ even Ultima only agreed to one thing being 1-A. Quite evident comparing “space-time” in a hierarchy as synonyms for stories doesn't mean R>F and quite frankly, it's contradictory.

i see , thanks

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Okay, since they don't have the feats, and as we already said, dimensions aren't spatial .

Yeah, I've mentioned that they mostly mean other worlds and other planes but which aren't R>F.

Nothing so far other than the Records seems completely aspatial.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

So the akashic records still has the most qualification. Well either way, that's pretty much what we've been hoping (least right now compared to months ago).

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Yeah, I've mentioned that they mostly mean other worlds and other planes but which aren't R>F.

I only replied that way if they were spatial. The 4th-dimensional thing would make heaven/archives Tier 2, and they would be able to reach Low 1C.

Nothing so far other than the Records seems completely aspatial.

true.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Current staff votes for 1-A Akashic Records/Gods
@Ultima_Reality , here
@FinePoint , here
@Antvasima , here
@Oblivion_Of_The_Endless , here
Should be good enough to apply the changes. First, I’m going to need the cosmology page before applying them

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Since the cosmology page has been created, I’ll start applying the 1A changes to all characters that currently have pages. I’ll also fix the dead 2A AP scans if needed i will add better justifications. Just finished fixing this.

Trinity Seven is quite powerful verse with the weakest of the characters have Massively Hypersonic to the strongest with FTL+ speed, with Universe level+ to Multiverse level+ attack potency. Nearly any characters in this verse have powerful abilities like Spatial Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Reality Warping, Conceptual Manipulation, Plot Manipulation and many more because of their abilities to access archive with their magic.

to this

Trinity Seven is quite a powerful verse. At bare minimum, characters start at Multiverse level+ attack potency, and by the end of their magical paths, almost any character reaches Outerverse level. While the gods themselves are Outerverse level by nature. Nearly any characters in this verse have powerful abilities like Spatial Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Reality Warping, Conceptual Manipulation, Plot Manipulation and many more because of their abilities to access archive with their magic.

 

[Antvasima]

You need to make certain that the revised statistics are consistent for both tier, attack potency, striking strength, and durability, unless there are very good reasons to avoid this.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lieselotte_Sherlock?diff=9050400&oldid=8939882