Trigun - More abilities

[LordGinSama]

Bump x2

 

[LordGinSama]

Bump

 

[SamanPatou]

Sure thing. It's just a direct effect that Plants have after contact.

The link's broken.

How would that be either one? The guy couldn't move, there's the term "frozen in fear." yes but that's not what happens when scared. When scared your body shakes as a defense Mechanisms, you don't lock.

I recall it being rather common in fiction for people to be literally paralyzed by fear, but looking it once again, the old man seemed more surprised about his legs being paralyzed, rather than himself being scared, so the power itself should work.
Do we have more instances of him doing this? Just to have more details.

No, that's like literally speaking. One of the reasons why he was so damn hard to actually "kill." (Which they couldn't do either, Vash had to counter to ability with anti fusion and the range he has. Vash was the "key." in the defeat of Knive's. This obviously wasn't meant as in "the only one strong enough.' because while he's relative, he's still vastly weaker than Ark Knives. Vash is the key because he counters basically everything Knives can do.)

I'm definitely missing something due to my lack of knowledge of the verse, but I feel this doesn't answer my question.

Not directly since Vash was able to unfuse Knives from the Ark, Vash being the same person with Universal+ Space-Time Manipulation and power Nullification that extends to that range as well. The power of a Plant extends and reaches to the entire time axis.

Acausality type 3 afaik it's all about that, and requires multiple versions to be independent and able to act if one is killed, so I'm unsure if the power can be given in this case

Basically Vash was the walking counter to what Knives was.

Most likely not, the statements are made several times and Midvalley isn't the type to make hyperbolic statements especially given his expertise in sensory. Non - Independent Plants which are the weakest Plants also Manipulation, create and collapse abstractions like causality by merely existing, so them Manipulating Fate isn't exactly far fetched.

Plus Knives isn't the type to really manipulate, he's a lot more direct and had little contact with humans before his attack.

You should gather these statements, and ultimately, without further details I'd say a "possibly" label might be required.

Both, it's his regeneration from himself, plus the thousands of images of himself that he's stored into the Plants. Basically the issue in dealing with him was that his regeneration was stupid, and the fact that he installed his image / will into Thousands of other Plants, and in turn the time Axis which made him so hard to deal with.

Only Vash with his range and anti fusion was able to put a stop to him.

It works then, just be sure to gather all the relevant scans that show and explain this thing.

Sure. Refer to here or better yet I'll just drop the accepted statement.


プラントはプランク的な不確定性を統制しエネルギー、物質、次元の操作など可能だが更には因果律の崩壊や創造が可能で全ての時間軸を含めた多元的宇宙、更に高位の次元にまで及ぶ。プラントの大元と呼べるものが多元的宇宙を遥かに上の高次元そのものであり、全ての始まりそのもの。


Which translates into "The plant can control plank-like uncertainty and manipulate energy, materials, and dimensions, but it can also collapse and create causality, extending to the multiverse including all time axes, and even higher dimensions.. What can be called the origin of the plant is the higher dimension itself far above the multiverse, and the beginning of everything itself.."


So normal Plants have already shown causality fuckery, and time axis fuckery so Type 3 and Fate Manipulation should be solid imo.

Thanks.
I guess Knives shares these powers with other plants, tho I don't think they make those specific powers 100% solid, just more likely to be actual things.

The cropped one is really the only part of relevancy within that page, I don't really see a reason to include the entire page whenever 99% of it is meaningless. Anyway, that scan is pretty direct but if that's not enough for you Plants are currently accepted as having all types of self sustenance, they don't need to eat, sleep, or anything of the sort even when empowering massive cities for hundreds of years on end.

It's to make everything look better, a full page is still better than a couple of panels imho, and it shouldn't be a big deal since it's a single one.

That's the Crimson Nail, basically Knives's right hand. Trigun's a verse that delves into higher D stuff quite often, ranging from this statement in the manga to the 2 other Higher D statements from WoG (The latter is accepted as 4-D hax here so her referring to a higher dimension is more consistent than her referring to a different state of existence.)

Should be fine, then.

Knives's has Low-Godly which covers most forms of EE. Vash's case is matter / physical EE, which Knives's can regenerate from so it's more akin to Negation than just EE since Knives's can regenerate from that level of damage.

Same, should be fine then.

This is completely different, getting tortured physically and mentally for the majority of 150+, getting hunted, betrayed and watching loved ones / friend's get executed just because of the connection they have with you is definitely far from norm.

Vash has seen and dealt with the ugliest side of humanity for 150+, and despite all that he still manages to push on without a second of hesitation. Same guy who can go through 8 months of torture and go through serious injury with his will alone.

I'm still iffy on the first part, give a longer lifespan to real people and you'll find those who would live in a similar way, but I'd still say you don't need supernatural levels of willpower, but I believe you can find many other long-living fictional characters who spent their life in similar conditions.
One of the rules established when the power was created, was to give it only to those who can achieve things that would normally be impossible through their sheer willpower.
The 8 months-long torture should be good, tho.

What do you mean? Basically Plants have the ability to "negate." abilities and also "give." abilities. Vash tends to capitalize on the former, Knives abuses the latter to gain new and random ass abilities such as out of the blue Void Manipulation, Mind hax, Deconstruction, fusion, etc.

Should be fine too, but once again, make sure to gather the relevant scans and put them in order on Knives' profile, either in the P&A section or elsewhere.

 

[LordGinSama]

The link's broken.

The image itself doesn't seem to be working, but the feat is done by physical contact attacks. Think of it like a whip, and with each lash you have your senses severed.

I'll try to find another version of the image to upload in the meantime.

I recall it being rather common in fiction for people to be literally paralyzed by fear, but looking it once again, the old man seemed more surprised about his legs being paralyzed, rather than himself being scared, so the power itself should work.
Do we have more instances of him doing this? Just to have more details

None aside from this instance, but Knives has shown passive aura that gives anyone near him violent sights of their future deaths, cause them to pass out, still fear and cause a physical effect such as turning a mountain sized city into dust by his mere existence.

I'm definitely missing something due to my lack of knowledge of the verse, but I feel this doesn't answer my question.

Perhaps I can explain it better than.


A basic Plant has causality Manipulation that effects all axis's of time of the multiverse, this would in turn mean that a Plants Causality Manipulation can extend to all points in time, the past, present and future as the term "time axis." implies.


Vash is the only other Independent Plants aside from Knives, and these Plants are inherently more potent with their abilities. A basic Plant can effect every point in time with their abilities, Vash as in Independent Plant scales above this and has the ability to forcibly defuse entities.


Knives only has type 3 with the Ark, and Vash has the effective range with his causality based power Nullification to reach all points in the time axis.

Acausality type 3 afaik it's all about that, and requires multiple versions to be independent and able to act if one is killed, so I'm unsure if the power can be given in thisAxis.

Read above, Vash has the range to effect any point within the time axis.

You should gather these statements, and ultimately, without further details I'd say a "possibly" label might be requAxis.

I'd lean on more of a "likely' rating all things considered. And I've already posted the statements with Nightow's WoG statements, including the time Axis statement.

It works then, just be sure to gather all the relevant scans that show and explain this thing.

Will do!

Thanks.
I guess Knives shares these powers with other plants, tho I don't think they make those specific powers 100% solid, just more likely to be actual things.

No problem, and basically yeah Plants can "take" away powers and also "give" powers whether it be by giving abilities or literally energy, for example creating energy for cities for decades.

It's to make everything look better, a full page is still better than a couple of panels imho, and it shouldn't be a big deal since it's a single one.


Should be fine, then.


Same, should be fine then.


I'm still iffy on the first part, give a longer lifespan to real people and you'll find those who would live in a similar way,

I feel like this depends heavily on how you live, and uses a great amount of assumptions. Not everyone would live a Witcher lifs Style if they lived for longer. Even with longevity I doubt the average person would bare witness to public execution of loved ones, experience torture for your existence, banishment from every major city and a 60 billion dollar bounty on your head.

but I'd still say you don't need supernatural levels of willpower, but I believe you can find many other long-living fictional characters who spent their life in similar conditions.
One of the rules established when the power was created, was to give it only to those who can achieve things that would normally be impossible through their sheer willpower.
The 8 months-long torture should be good, tho.

Fair enough.

Should be fine too, but once again, make sure to gather the relevant scans and put them in order on Knives' profile, either in the P&A section or elsewhere.

Actually we have a Plant Page for that as to not overly inflate his page.

 

[LordGinSama]

Also are we still giving out resistance to extreme temperatures and radiation for being able to survive in space?

 

[LordGinSama]

Bump

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Also are we still giving out resistance to extreme temperatures and radiation for being able to survive in space?

no

 

[azontr]

Also are we still giving out resistance to extreme temperatures and radiation for being able to survive in space?

For extreme temperatures, you only get it if you spend an extended period of time in space. Like, I think a few days to weeks, is what I heard.

 

[LordGinSama]

Ah that would make sense.

 

[LordGinSama]

Bump.


Saman seems to have accepted the abilities along with other staff members. Would this be fine to apply now?

 

[SamanPatou]

The image itself doesn't seem to be working, but the feat is done by physical contact attacks. Think of it like a whip, and with each lash you have your senses severed.
I'll try to find another version of the image to upload in the meantime.

Ok then, just make sure it link it on the profile.

None aside from this instance, but Knives has shown passive aura that gives anyone near him violent sights of their future deaths, cause them to pass out, still fear and cause a physical effect such as turning a mountain sized city into dust by his mere existence.

Ok then, and the fact that person seemed more surprised than scared makes me think it could be legit paralysis inducemente

Read above, Vash has the range to effect any point within the time axis.

Yes, but iirc we still need evidences of Knives' alternate versions acting in his place, even if Vash can affect all of them at the same time.
But admittedly, my knowledge on such type Acausality isn't perfect, so you may want to ask someone who knows it better than me.

I'd lean on more of a "likely' rating all things considered. And I've already posted the statements with Nightow's WoG statements, including the time Axis statement.

I can accept that.

Actually we have a Plant Page for that as to not overly inflate his page.

Perfect, then.

Saman seems to have accepted the abilities along with other staff members. Would this be fine to apply now?

Maybe, I think the last point of contention is about Acausality type 3, I'll see who I can call to evaluate this correctly.

 

[LordGinSama]

The only thing I'd have to disagree with is the Type 3 counter argument. As I said, we wouldn't have gotten the chance of the other versions of Knives acting since Vash would have nulled them, if it gets nullified then obviously we won't see them act since this is causality based power Nullification that extends out to every point in time, the copies of Knives would have been effectively nulled due to the first one being forcibly defused.



Plants by existing already effect every time, past present and future since they can effect every point within the time Axis. Vash is essentially the Antithesis of Knives.


I suppose I could include the part about Knives somehow obtaining knowledge from future events despite not having any form of precognition or clairvoyant abilities? Perhaps that would be support for type 3 even though I think there's enough for it imo.

 

[LordGinSama]

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[LordGinSama]

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[LordGinSama]

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[LordGinSama]

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[LordGinSama]

Bump

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think everything in the OP makes sense.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This is fine

 

[LordGinSama]

Well there's a lot of staff approval so I guess this can be closed now.