Transduality 2 for Graham and Anos

[Sniper670]

Hmm yeah....
1. There's clearly dualities
2. Their source at least, will get it TD

If you're pushing TD 2 for their source, that's acceptable if there's no anti feats, which you said there isnt so.......I lean towards agreeing.

I really don't see how it will be disagreeable after evaluating it but what do you know

 

[Dereck03]

Not much of an assumption considering its said him and graham are the same but I'll just wait for more info

Graham was nothing to Anos

 

[Dereck03]

Hmm yeah....
1. There's clearly dualities

Yep

2. Their source at least, will get it TD
If you're pushing TD 2 for their source, that's acceptable if there's no anti feats, which you said there isnt so.......I lean towards agreeing.

Graham source of nothingness wasn't affected by order nor for anything other than Venuz or Anos' source and we have Graham's true nature lacking reason as well sooo... Anos should have Limited TD 2 for his source and NPI

I really don't see how it will be disagreeable after evaluating it but what do you know

I'm prepared for the worst, although I think everything is clear enough and I think I've covered everything I need to... @imZer0Null i summon you to disagree with me

 

[Tatsumi504]

Graham was nothing to Anos

I'm not disagreeing with that, just saying their nature as misfits were the same but with Anos being at a far higher magnitude

 

[Dereck03]

I'm not disagreeing with that, just saying their nature as misfits were the same but with Anos being at a far higher magnitude

I'm not saying you disagree, I'm just giving you a fact.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

For whoever disagreeing with TD 2 read the OP again we are arguing for true selves of Graham and Anos not for their physical bodies.

 

[Dereck03]

not fit their physical bodies.

I don't know about you but I still say that Misfits should have more than just Aca 4. But I'll leave that for when TD is finished.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I don't know about you but I still say that Misfits should have more than just Aca 4. But I'll leave that for when TD is finished.

Yeah but @Yemma670 is saying everyone is interacting with them so no no for TD 2 just correcting him that we are not arguing for TD 2 to their bodies. Yeah I also agree they probably should get Acausality type 5 but for now Graham and Anos should get TD 2

 

[Dereck03]

Yeah but @Yemma670 is saying everyone is interacting with them so no no for TD 2 just correcting him that we are not arguing for TD 2 to their bodies. Yeah I also agree they probably should get Acausality type 5 but for now Graham and Anos should get TD 2

I do not specify clearly what the misfit should have, I just leave the fact that they exist outside order and reason, order are dualities and reason is far above order.

 

[Tatsumi504]

I don't know about you but I still say that Misfits should have more than just Aca 4. But I'll leave that for when TD is finished.

Well we take normal people interacting with type5 as anti feats and nerf said type5 to type 4 here so...
Don't know why it isn't taken as an interaction feat for others in the verse.

Also it'll suck if this passes and we get aca5 but it gets anti feats later down the line.
Hopefully we might get to see Anos true form soon but considering how strong he is, I doubt anyone would be able to reduce him to that state

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

That's not true and that's not how TD 2 works

If your verse has 5 dualities, and you're transcends (are immune) all of it, it's TD 2 but of only those 5, not every duality that has and ever will be, even if they don't exist in your verse

Likewise if you transcend(is immune) to one or specific dual systems, that's TD 1

You are basically saying that causality needs to exist in the verse...you realize that even a punch already needs causality to even work right? Or walking. Or thinking. Or moving. Those all contain cause and their effects.

So yes, TD Type 2 would include Aca Type 5.

 

[wwereymy235]

You are basically saying that causality needs to exist in the verse...you realize that even a punch already needs causality to even work right? Or walking. Or thinking. Or moving. Those all contain cause and their effects.

So yes, TD Type 2 would include Aca Type 5.

Does Aca Type 5 affect your tier in any way?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Does Aca Type 5 affect your tier in any way?

No, it just makes you very hard to affect.

 

[wwereymy235]

No, it just makes you very hard to affect.

Is there any way to bypass type 5

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Is there any way to bypass type 5

Feats

 

[Tatsumi504]

Is there any way to bypass type 5

Be type 5 I guess? Or maybe have feats of interacting with it, that's the only way I know to affect it, though there was once a notion going around that CM1 can interact with aca5, don't know why though

 

[Fixxed]

Anos should have Limited TD 2 for his

I dont think its limited. I mean what makes it limited???

Arnos' NEP is limited because arnos is not nonexistance being by default, he just use graham's nonexistance. And graham get full NEP because his true form is nonexistance

For TD 2, arnos dont use anything to cover his true form. He is TD 2 by default, so i think no reason for rated arnos "limited"

 

[Dereck03]

I dont think its limited. I mean what makes it limited???

Arnos' NEP is limited because arnos is not nonexistance being by default, he just use graham's nonexistance. And graham get full NEP because his true form is nonexistance

For TD 2, arnos dont use anything to cover his true form. He is TD 2 by default, so i think no reason for rated arnos "limited"

Limited cus only his source seems to be Transdual.

 

[Fixxed]

Limited cus only his source seems to be Transdual.

I mean, graham's physical body is not nonexistance too, only his root. But he has full NEP

Another example i think is yogiri, his physical is not acausality 5, only his true form. But he get full acausality 5

 

[Dereck03]

I mean, graham's physical body is not nonexistance too, only his root. But he has full NEP

Eh, you know that Source of Nothingness is the lack of his normal source, which is why his Source of Nothingness doesn't function like other sources as he no longer has a body, soul/spirit, mind, or even existent magic power, despite having this "source"?? Therefore he is completely non-existent both in his source of nothingness and in his true nature which is pure nothingness.

Another example i think is yogiri, his physical is not acausality 5, only his true form. But he get full acausality 5

A very bad example, because Yogiri does have something that can be described as a true form. Anos has not shown that. He has only shown himself and his source, he is not like Graham who's true nature is pure nothingness.

 

[Fixxed]

Eh, you know that Source of Nothingness is the lack of his normal source, which is why his Source of Nothingness doesn't function like other sources as he no longer has a body, soul/spirit, mind, or even existent magic power, despite having this "source"?? Therefore he is completely non-existent both in his source of nothingness and in his true nature which is pure nothingness.

I dont understand what you mean here. But root by default dont need body, spirit, and soul for exist

A very bad example, because Yogiri does have something that can be described as a true form. Anos has not shown that. He has only shown himself and his source, he is not like Graham who's true nature is pure nothingness.

Their root is their true form. Is not "Graham's true nature" but Graham's root true nature

Spoiler: Chapter 371

「だけど、滅びた後のなにもない無が、理さえ伴わない虚無こそが、僕の根源の本来の姿だ」
"But the nothingness after the destruction, the emptiness without even reason, is the original form of my roots."

 

[Dereck03]

I dont understand what you mean here. But root by default dont need body, spirit, and soul for exist
Their root is their true form.

Huh, do you see Anos throughout the series just acting as a source? Only when his physical body is destroyed (and practically always reform his body (since it is necessary for the plot). And unlike Graham, we did see him exist as the source of Nothingness and after it was destroyed, the pure Nothingness remained, which is his true form or as your scan says, the true form of his source. In WN Chapter 371, Graham uses the spell Absolute Empty Void <Nuelienu> to convert his physical body into nothingness

Is not "Graham's true nature" but Graham's root true nature

Spoiler: Chapter 371

「だけど、滅びた後のなにもない無が、理さえ伴わない虚無こそが、僕の根源の本来の姿だ」
"But the nothingness after the destruction, the emptiness without even reason, is the original form of my roots."

Anos has not shown such a nature and has not acted as such unlike graham. Everything would be limited only to his source of destruction.

 

[Fixxed]

Huh, do you see Anos throughout the series just acting as a source?

So is graham

And unlike Graham, we did see him exist as the source of Nothingness and after it was destroyed, the pure Nothingness remained, which is his true form or as your scan says, the true form of his source.

He exist as a root of destruction, after his own root destroyed

Anos has not shown such a nature and has not acted as such unlike graham.

Arnos' root true nature is destruction and chaos like dilfred says

https://imgur.io/a/RMHAqga

 

[Dereck03]

He exist as a root of destruction, after his own root destroyed

Where????? Scans

 

[Fixxed]

Where????? Scans

Chapter 371. Graham and arnos destroy each other's roots, thats why arnos get high godly regen too

https://imgur.io/a/iBkUTPn

 

[Dereck03]

Chapter 371. Graham and arnos destroy each other's roots, thats why arnos get high godly regen too

https://imgur.io/a/iBkUTPn

Anos' will overcome his destruction to regenerate himself from source destruction. Nowhere it's said that he will exist as source of destruction after the destruction of his source. Even more when his source is already the source of destruction (Source of Voldigoad's lineage) unlike Graham who has normal source, then source of nothingness then pure nothingness.

 

[Fixxed]

Anos' will overcome his destruction to regenerate himself from source destruction. Nowhere it's said that he will exist as source of destruction after the destruction of his source. Even more when his source is already the source of destruction (Source of Voldigoad's lineage) unlike Graham who has normal source, then source of nothingness then pure nothingness.

That make it more simple. What that make graham can get TD 2?? Because he is the misfit. But his normal and nothingness root is not a misfit because dont unbound by reason. Arnos' root of detruction is misfit by default so he is TD 2, and then true nature of his root is chaos
His root is chaos it self, that can make the world detroyed. So he is full TD 2 in his true form. What gonna make him limited there???

I'm not talking about the physical body but the true form. Because like you says

Limited cus only his source seems to be Transdual.

Then graham should be limited NEP and TD too because only his source and true form that a nothingness

I think add the TD in his true power key

 

[Tatsumi504]

Anos' will overcome his destruction to regenerate himself from source destruction. Nowhere it's said that he will exist as source of destruction after the destruction of his source. Even more when his source is already the source of destruction (Source of Voldigoad's lineage) unlike Graham who has normal source, then source of nothingness then pure nothingness.

For now there's no feats but we have a statement of Anos and graham being the same as misfits, would that be enough?
Anos normal source< (possible) source of destruction< (possible) pure destruction/chaos.

Do we even want to see what his normal source can do not to mention the rest?

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12

Would any of you be willing to evaluate this please?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Read it
If the Transduality 2 is for their source and true form that’s okay
Limited for Anos from what I read on the thread

You can tag @imZer0Null since I cannot verify their explanation but according to their explanation this thread is valid

 

[Antvasima]

Read it
If the Transduality 2 is for their source and true form that’s okay
Limited for Anos from what I read on the thread

You can tag @imZer0Null since I cannot verify their explanation but according to their explanation this thread is valid

Thank you for the evaluations.

@imZer0Null

Are you also willing to help out here please?

 

[Dereck03]

Null told me that he's busy rn and he'll try to respond to this later.

 

[Fixxed]

Bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

Would any of you be willing to evaluate this please?

From the look of it (I quite literally know nothing about the series), TD type 2 in their true forms is probably acceptable, but the lesser would at most qualify for Type 1 from what I'm seeing.

 

[Fixxed]

From the look of it (I quite literally know nothing about the series), TD type 2 in their true forms is probably acceptable, but the lesser would at most qualify for Type 1 from what I'm seeing.

Can i have reason for TD 1??? Because order of destruction-creation and birth-abortion is only a example for order and order are inextricably interwined. So every order (every law and concept) in reality have their own duality

 

[Qawsedf234]

So every order (every law and concept) in reality have their own duality

TD Type 2 requires transcendence of every system of duality. Not just the mentioned set of stuff.

 

[Fixxed]

TD Type 2 requires transcendence of every system of duality. Not just the mentioned set of stuff.

So it can have TD 2?

 

[Fixxed]

TD Type 2 requires transcendence of every system of duality. Not just the mentioned set of stuff.

I mean TD 2 have too transcend all duality right? Order and order are makes duality system in maou gakuin and of course shape the reality, and misfit is unbound by all order, so its mean its unbound by all duality system

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

TD Type 2 requires transcendence of every system of duality. Not just the mentioned set of stuff.

Order is duality in MGF also it's Conceptual level not just normal dualities.

 

[Vietthai96]

Order is duality in MGF also it's Conceptual level not just normal dualities.

Dual system is already require conceptual, you just don't understand what he meant, he meant that you need to prove that these character beyond all dual system of the verse itself