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Tower of God CRT

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Enryu_The_Red_Tower

Enryu_The_Red_Tower

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Ok, so Tower of God CRT should be finally happening, so I will put almost, if not everything we gather during these months without being able to do any Revision, if I'm forgetting something or something that needs to be added, let me know for edit this OP

Tower of God CRT:

Powers and Resitances:

All shinsoo users: Madness/Fear Inducement and resitance to it (shinsoo passively causes madness in those without high enough resistance and shinsoo users have high enough shinsoo resistance to not be driven mad by high concentrations of shinsoo) - https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-1-ep-11/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=12

Rankers Immortality (Type 1) - https://gyazo.com/b9a89b6327b01e8ef28c819aabea7f5c

High Rankers 6-B (All of them should be superior to Yuri, whose Rose Shower feat is very close to 6-B. So all "Likely 6-B" will become solid 6-B) - https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Jobbo/Two_ToG_calcs.

Zahard and 10 Family Heads:

Zahard Precog (Khel Hellam said that Zahard controls the future he sees) - https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-53/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=471

Resistance to Precog to Zahard and Family Heads (Khel Hellam can't see their future with his powers) - https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-35/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=453

Urek:

Size/Compression manip (He compressed the entire Baek Ryun forest and put it in a box) - http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/4664...wxe0p91iLvNlxqvRbPkFoDezpbgkjZYw5URo2odOFzHm-

Twenty-Fifth Baam:

Reactive Power Level and Accelerated Development [Battle] (Most direct showing is against the test ranker) - https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-51/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=469

Resistance to Precognition (His future cannot be seen by Khel Hellam and Zahard, who can can constantly see and change the future at their disposal) - Example 1 - https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-35/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=453, Example 2 - https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-51/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=469, Example 3 - https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-53/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=471

Resistance to Psychometry (The mirror on the hidden floor could not see his past) - https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net..._231821.png/revision/latest?cb=20200421162022

Possible Resistance to Fate Manipulation (Constantly seems to defy fate. Has directly changed the fate seen by Khel Hellam. Zahard sees him as a threat due to his ability to act beyond his ability to see the future. Is a threat to the tower because he has the ability to change it. Is an irregular, a being from outside the tower that violates the “rules of the tower”) - I don't remember exactly which chapter this was declared in, but it was something strongly implicated during the "current" 100 chapters of the webtoon, but I can say that for ToG supporters, this is something we discussed and agreed to during our discussions a few months, but I will wait for other people to show up to clarify that

Karaka:

BFR (Can send anyone who is absorbed by his World of Darkness to the dimension where his heart resides to fight with his minions and if he wants to, he is even able to take them out of his dimension whenever he wants) - Example 1 - https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-57/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=475, Example 2 - https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-66/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=484

Kallavan:

Weapon/Limb Creation: Can create a substitute limb that has been destroyed or torn off made from Essence of Bravery energy, such as he did with his right arm) - https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-63/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=481

Baylord Paul:

Berserk Mode (After using his partial transformations, Paul goes crazy to the point of ignoring the pain of the attacks he takes, only managing to back to normal due to outer help) - https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-58/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=476

Administrators:

Illusion Creation (They create illusory skies of shinsoo) - https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-1-ep-11/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=12

The Administrators also should have planetary range, because they can teleport the regulars to other floors.

AP:

Prime White: Country level (Able to fight against a suppressed Essence of Bravery Form Kallavan on equal grounds), Country level+ with Cullinan (Evenly matched a full power Essence of Bravery Form Kallavan and even pressured him)

The Nest Arc Karaka: AP: At least Small Country level+ (More powerful than before. His' and True Self Mode Baam's combined attacks managed to lightly harm a suppressed Essence of Bravery Form Kallavan and could briefly restrain him on a few occasions)
Durability: Country level (Withstood blows from a supressed Kallavan, whose attacks were powerful enough to considerably injured True Self Mode Baam with Red Thryssa Transformations)

Baylord Paul with Partial Transformations: Country level (Comparable to Doom's Partial Transformations. Traded blows with Lo Po Bia Dokoko and battled with him possessing Windbird alongside Doom)

Season 3 Ha Cheonhee: At least Small Country level+ (Matched Karaka during the Nest War events)

True Self Mode Baam: At least Small Country level+, possibly higher (Stronger than Karaka. His' and Karaka's combined attacks managed to lightly harm a supressed Essence of Bravery Form Kallavan), higher with Red Thryssa Transformations (Vastly stronger than his normal Red Thryssa Transformations. Briefly traded one blow with Kallavan), far higher with 2nd Thorn (Much more powerful than before. Almost taken off Kallavan arm with one of his most powerful techniques)

Evankhell Decompressed Form: Country level (After being decompressed, she was stated to be able to use her full power, indicating that she should be more powerful than her compressed state), Country level+ with Ancient Powers

Redan multiplier:

As you know, currently some characters have certain classifications due to Redan's multiplier which is currently 3x, but there is something that implies or is more believable that this multiplier is 2x, as the statement that Redan increases strength and speed by "a couple of times", that the minimum standard is 2x, so I propose that any character that scales for a Redan user, be scaled to be 2x weaker or stronger than the calculation they scale instead of 3x.

Downgrade from High 7-A to At least 7-A and At least Low 6-B, at most 6-B to Low 6-B:

Characters who currently have a solid High 7-A should be downgraded to At least 7-A, as High 7-A is based on a non-existent multiplier that has no evidence, and At least 7-A is the safest option, whose reasoning is that these characters are very far stronger than the likely 7-A characters. And for At çeast Low 6-B, at most 6-B to Low 6-B, is based on the fact that they are able to hold themselves against 6-B alone, but this is wrong, because in most of these cases 6-B were casual, or weakened or using the numerical advantage against them, as shown in Yuri against Kallavan and Hell Joe on different occasions and when they finally manage to get a decent fight against them, the 6-B were holding back to fight them at the same level, what I want to propose is that the At least Low 6-B, at most 6-B are downgraded to Low 6-B, with some being At least Low 6-B.

Merging keys:

As I can explain, we should remove At least Low 7-C and likely 7-C from the profiles and just merge them with 7-C, since the Low 7-C calc that supposedly occurs at the beginning of the second season, actually occurs in same arc where we have the 7-C+ feat, so I suggest removing the Low 7-C, since this feat is inferior to what I mentioned above and practically occur in the same arc, also since 7-C+ feat is done by Androssi who is one of the strongest of that arc and Ran with Redan is comparable to her, everyone who fought he in base and Novick must be only 7-C

Calcs:

The calc for the Administrators AP should be redone, as it uses the area of a floor and not the volume.

NOTE: Again, as this is almost a definitive CRT, I want us to have discussions for maximum skills, powes, resistances and some other things that we haven't added or discussed yet.

Accepted: 5 (Monarch_Laciel, Arceus0x, Gabriel_00, MiguelABarrios, AKM sama)

Not accepted:
 
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I disagree with
- non-physical interaction: going to need you to find some examples first
- resistance to disease manipulation: Simply feeling ill is not disease.
- resistance to fire manipulation: durability to tank fire =/= resistance

Other than that it all seems fine.
 
To the OP, you should always link the evidences in the original post whenever you're proposing these types of revisions. People are not expected to just take your word for it.
 
What AKM said, there are exactly 0 scans in this CRT. I remember some of the stuff but I kinda need context.
 
Ok, these are as many examples as I can get now, since unfortunately I'm not able to take screenshots now, but these chapters contain the examples that makes these powers legitimate.
 
On further inspection...

I also disagree with resistances to fear and madness manipulation. That chapter just shows a man being in a lot of pain from shinsoo concentration, not fear or madness.

Also disagree with Jahad having precog. That scan just shows him controlling someone else's precog. Also, while Jahad does have some kind of resistance to precog, it's more because whatever Khel sees, Jahad can just do something else, rendering his vision of fate useless. It's not that he can't be seen, it's that he can do something different to what is seen.

Also the "illusion creation" could be a lot of things. It's a fake sky, that doesn't mean it's an illusion in the sense of the illusion power.

I have no comments on any of the AP stuff.
 
The calc for the Administrators AP should be redone, as it uses the area of a floor and not the volume.
Also, the Administrators should have planetary range, because they can teleport the regulars to other floors.

@Monarch_Laciel, If all Lero-ro was doing was causing the guy pain there would be no need for the talk about infinite possibilities and despair, the pain should be just a side effect. The guy's behaviour should also serve as further proof of fear/madness, despite being surrounded by shinsoo he was only holding his head, crying and sceaming and recovered quickly after the flow of shinsoo stoped, if Lero-ro was causing him physical pain he should be incapacitated even after the shinsoo stoped. Also, Zahard himself said that he could "See all possibilities from the same height as god".
 
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Monarch_Laciel said:
. Also, while Jahad does have some kind of resistance to precog, it's more because whatever Khel sees, Jahad can just do something else, rendering his vision of fate useless. It's not that he can't be seen, it's that he can do something different to what is seen.
Click to expand...
Nope, he blocks temporal precog, and shift fate vision.
Hockney could not see in Jahad future.
Innate-of-Irregulars-resist-precog-1.jpg

Innate-of-Irregulars-resist-precog-2.jpg

Innate-of-Irregulars-resist-precog-3.jpg
Chapter
edit: actually, can someone add me as supporter of the verse pls
 
Gabriel_00

Yes, I also know that the calc that put the Enryu and Guardians to 6-A needs to be redone, but the problem is that we did not find anyone willing to redo it.
 
what do yall think is the height of a floor? like there are clouds there so at least 2km but is there anything more?
 
I trust Monarch's judgment here, so whatever he has accepted is probably fine to apply.
 
The webtoon and wiki have been contradictory on ranker 'immortality', even for Type 1 so I am just going to be neutral towards this one. I personally prefer Longevity for all rankers but I am not too opposed, I just think we need more evidence.

Baam is not too resistant to precog or 'fate manipulation'. (Especially in Parts 1 and 2 although 3 seems to have somewhat changed it.) Guides can still see his future which implies there is some precogntive capabilities that can still work. I think 'minor' to both is fine. Also 'possible' for resistance to Fate Manipulation should be changed to 'likely'. Basically, Irregulars are not bound by the rules of the tower and i would assume also the 'future' of the tower can only be perceived by the Guides and 10 Heads (I presume because of their original contracts that gave them their immortality.) For Zahard who is trying to control fate and Baam who has overtaken impossible odds twice from Hwaryuns perspective (Once in the Last Station, where his odds were basically described as Zero and now with the Nest where he barely pulled through to save the Needle.)

Monarch disagreed with illusion but I am fine with. This seems semantics, but I want to be kind of lazy and just assume that since Administrators control Shinsoo on each floor (which can take infinite forms), then it is reasonable we can give this ability since they already make fake skies, night skys with stars iirc, and even a fake sun/moon for mornings and night.

Just want to clarify though this does seem to require 'concentration' or least the will to do it since the 43rd floor essentially does not have any of these features.
Like at all---.

Zahard precog also seems to be linked to his fate manipulation but other then some statements in the Hidden Floor it is fine as is. I expect to get an upgrade in the future but I am pretty much fine with this.

Everything else is a solid yes for me. Good job on organizing this.
 
@SinsofMan guides can still see other people futures so they can see Baam's future by seeing what other people are going to do. I don't think it makes much sense for him to gain resistance to precog from one season to another if nothing changed.
 
I want to add something to the CRT, even if precog negation to Bam is a no, he should have Resistance to clairvoyance or atleast limited resistance, the same to Jahad and irregulars in general.

The Elder compared Jahad and irregular nature to Bam changing Fate "making miracles" and all that
The fact that Bam did the same with So Oh and the Elder said that he could see HIS own fate after being Far away of Baam.
So-oh-1.jpg

So-oh-2.jpg

Chapter
Gabriel_00 said:
guides can still see other people futures so they can see Baam's future by seeing what other people are going to do
Click to expand...
Elder-1.png

Elder-2.png

Chapter
Resistance(limited or whatever) to clairvoyance to Irregulars in general should be a yes.

edit: It also seems to vary according to the distance, those were both far away from Bam.
 
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Gabriel_00 said:
@SinsofMan guides can still see other people futures so they can see Baam's future by seeing what other people are going to do. I don't think it makes much sense for him to gain resistance to precog from one season to another if nothing changed.
Click to expand...
I suppose so, but similar logic is applied to Zahard. But without proof of them seeing the actions of others ergo it applies to baam by proxy, it is not the biggest thing I am in favor of.

Also, it was implied Hwaryun can see Baams future but Khel's guide could not.
So this is probably not so cut and dry I think.
 
Since you're the OP, you should make a summary of stuff that has been accepted and rejected by Monarch.
 
Alright then.

So far this is the current conclusion we have reached that were

Accepted: Madness/Fear Manipulation and resistance to it for majority, if not all characters, Immortality Type 1, Administratos's Illusion Creation, All "Likely 6-B" will become "6-B", Size Manipulation for Urek, Reactive Power Level and Accelerated Development [Battle] for Baam, Resistance to Psychometry for Baam, BFR for Karaka, Limb Creation for Kallavan, Berserk Mode for Paul, Downgrade from High 7-A to At least 7-A and At least Low 6-B, at most 6-B to Low 6-B, Redan Multiplier, Merging keys, AP, Precog to Zahard, Resistance to Precog for Baam, Zahard and Family Heads

Rejected: Non-Physical Interaction, Resistances to Disease and Fire Manipulation

In discussion: Baam's Likely Resistance to Fate Manipulation, New calc to Administrators AP using the area of the floor
 
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Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Alright then.

So far this is the current conclusion we have reached that were

Accepted: Madness/Fear Manipulation and resistance to it for majority, if not all characters, Immortality Type 1, Administratos's Illusion Creation, All "Likely 6-B" will become "6-B", Urek Size Manipulation, Baam's Reactive Power Level and Accelerated Development [Battle], Baam's Resistance to Psychometry, Karaka's BFR, Kallavan's Limb Creation, Paul's Berserk Mode, Downgrade from High 7-A to At least 7-A and At least Low 6-B, at most 6-B to Low 6-B, Redan Multiplier, Merging keys, AP, Precog to Zahard, Baam's, Zahard's and Family Heads Resistance to Precog

Rejected: Non-Physical Interaction, Resistances to Disease and Fire Manipulation

In discussion: Baam's Likely Resistance to Fate Manipulation, New calc to Administrators AP using the area of the floor
Click to expand...
I didn't notice that last part, sorry the summary is kind of hard to read.

Well the volume is probably impossible to know without the height of ground to the floor. You would either need to calc that first or find it from the webtoon.

We already have 6-A+, I personally wouldn't mind stretching it to baseline High 6-A by including volume, not area.

Or you know, the superior tier for matchups after all.

I will reply to more indepth baam's resistances later i need to gather sources.
 
SinsofMan said:
I didn't notice that last part, sorry the summary is kind of hard to read.

Well the volume is probably impossible to know without the height of ground to the floor. You would either need to calc that first or find it from the webtoon.

We already have 6-A+, I personally wouldn't mind stretching it to baseline High 6-A by including volume, not area.

Or you know, the superior tier for matchups after all.

I will reply to more indepth baam's resistances later i need to gather sources.
Click to expand...
we could use clouds or the rose shower image to calc the minimum size of a floor. we also outta include oceans...maybe...
 
Oceans are part of the land area; not volume. Unless I had too much to drink, the current calc shoooould be fine.

Although floor geography varies heavily, I think it was implied some floors are basically just ocean. A ocean size north america AP being boiled away would probably be higher then what we got. Maybe.

Other then that, yeah you are absolutely right.
 
Floor 43 has mountains in it, and there are still a lot more space above those mountains. We could assume that the floors have a height close to mount everest. Maybe the same height as the stratosphere.
 
Gabriel_00 said:
Floor 43 has mountains in it, and there are still a lot more space above those mountains. We could assume that the floors have a height close to mount everest. Maybe the same height as the stratosphere.
Click to expand...
Those mountains and the space above those mountains are below the corpse of the admin... Remember how they had to swin through the blood to reach the inside part of the Floor 43, where all the mountains and things were.
Floor-of-death-1.png

Floor-of-death-2.png

Floor-of-death-3.png

Floor-of-death-4.png

Floor-of-death-5.png

Floor-of-death-6.png

Floor-of-death-7.png

Every mountain we saw in floor 43 was within The dead admin, so he should be tall af.
 
I don't know if this is of much help, but also remember of Urek's punch which creates an explosion that dwarfed a very big mountain range and it all happened below Guardian's dead body
 
Enryu, I was stumped, why was Baam's feat of hurting Kallavan only Country level rather than Country level+? You wrote that Kallavan was suppressed or something? Did restraining one of his hands halve his power?
 
Kallavan had his hand literally tied behind his back which did a little more than half his power.

Before, he was struggling with White after he consumed souls and was on the losing end. Then, he basically flipped the tables and made White on the run when he ripped of the restraint.

Although after second thought, not sure why Baam is Country Level since he can only injure Kallavan with the BHS if I remember correctly. That just ignores durability.
Baam at his absolute highest would at least small country level+ with 2 thorns and at most country level with the power of souls.

Unless I forgot something, I am not sure why he is Country Level with any of his transformations or technique. (Minus Power of Souls.)
 
I mean, this would flip the entire keys for Karaka, Baam and White on its head, since Kallavan has mostly been fighting at 1/2 power for most of S3.

We should also have keys for sealed Kallavan.

And actually, back to Urek's power percentile, and Yuri's rose shower, if Urek beat Karaka, comparable to Yuri, at 1% power, then clashed with Transformed Hell Joe at 10%, that would be Country level+ already.

So, Likely Country level+ for Transformed Hell Joe, possessed Yuri, Garam, Maschenny, Jinsung, Base Evankhell and Kallavan, and a few others.
 
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But if we think with this logic that Shinwonryu is just hax and that the user’s power doesn’t affect this ability, it’s kind of wrong, for example, Baam during the fight against Data Zahard was only able to hurt him (before True Self Mode ) when he shattered Shinwonryu and make it as an invisible shield, but he was strong enough to make Shinwonryu able to do that, then when after igniting the 1st Thorn he used the Shinwonryu to counter Data Zahard's Leviathan and DZ even colliding with this technique and thus creating an explosion was the least affected by this clash as opposed to Baam and during the Last Station a full power Baam (he was using his all power ups, with the exception of souls and 2nd Thorn Ignition) using the Shinwonryu technique only was able to make a crack on Kallavan's mortal wound that he not even noticed, but the current Baam using only True Self Mode + 2nd Thorn was able to almost rip out his arm, so Baam should be able to generate at least generate a level of power close to when he used Shinwonryu, I mean, some time before Baam's attack, he even stopped a straight punch of Kallavan, remember, before when he used the Red Thryssa, Baam barely trade a blow with Kallavan.


In addition, Power of Souls Baam featless currently in terms of AP, the only thing we have of notable is Yasratcha stating that he has a rare power even for High Rankers and Maschenny seeing his achievment, he reminds her of her father (who can be Eduan or Zahard, but it must be probably Zahard, since princesses informally call him father sometimes.)
 
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Literally, Baam was using the 2nd Thorn when he attack Kallavan, and I really doubt that he would be able to do that damage on Kallavan without it, also I already explain above why he should be 6-B even without his Trascendental Skills, your are just ignoring it, and if we should follow this logic that Transcendental Moes are very, very far superior (I mean, they are superior to the other moves obviously, but not by that much) we should really downgrade Data Maschenny with Redan to "Unkown, At least Low 7-B, likely 7-A with Transcendental Skill"
 
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