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Tower of God CRT

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Considering that Phanta could be anywhere from Enryu++ to a normal person underneath all the reality warping / plot power, putting it all as unknown sounds fair
 
About the Administrator calc, it should be done using the volume of the floor not just the area(if possible).

If we are going to talk about Phantaminum, his AP should be at least 4-B, the outside has stars in it and he is able to "end the story" so he wouldn't be destroying just the tower but everything on the outside as well. Also, it is heavilly implied that there exists an entire universe outside the tower and since he can end everything that would mean that not only the space but also time would be erased. I propose something like at least 4-B possibly low 2-C. I don't see a point in categorizing him without his powers, they are always active, that would be like putting a 10-B on Goku without Ki.
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Well, it's fair, honestly, I think Enryu should have at least the Speed of Light with Attack Speed as Urek and the Administrators, I mean, his shinsoo controll overall outclass both, so his own attack speed should be at the very least comparable to their attack speed.

While on Phantaminum, I'm thinking of downgrading his all statistics to Unknown since all we know about his power is that Enryu is nothing compared to Phanta, but the rest is unknown, we don't know the extent of his power beyond knowing that he can very casually destroy the entire history of Tower of God.
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I agree
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
We are still discussing about the others stuffs of the verse. Yes, I know the calc was accepted, I already added it to the Administrators profile last night
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Okay. That is good.

I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion. Alternately, a staff member can use the @Username notification system.
 
Gabriel_00 said:
About the Administrator calc, it should be done using the volume of the floor not just the area(if possible).

If we are going to talk about Phantaminum, his AP should be at least 4-B, the outside has stars in it and he is able to "end the story" so he wouldn't be destroying just the tower but everything on the outside as well. Also, it is heavilly implied that there exists an entire universe outside the tower and since he can end everything that would mean that not only the space but also time would be erased. I propose something like at least 4-B possibly low 2-C. I don't see a point in categorizing him without his powers, they are always active, that would be like putting a 10-B on Goku without Ki.
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For the first point; giving up on that one for now. Insufficient info;

2nd One: If you absolutely have to put a number on Phanta, then I guess I can bring up the scraps of images there are of the Info Killed Talse Uzer, but I'm extremely hesitant to do so given that it's 1. Infokilled stuff from over ten years ago and 2. SIU's stated that the blog post stuff isn't strictly canon only the stuff introduced in the story is solidly canon. (For example; the Arie Family originally only ever had 1 Jahad Princess, which was Arie Horn Jahad, but then later on Arie Rose Jahad and Arie Hagi-Piano-Keys were a thing) so even the concept of Axis could have changed by now...

With that in mind, what's here solidly cements Axes (Plural of Axis) as space-level beings
Shipjaseong Dongmaeng), an alliance formed by 98 stars centered around the Red Cross-Star that Conqueror King was born on, declared the liberation of all sectors of space as well as all planets. This alliance also broke apart after Conqueror King's death, and it is now difficult to find its original form.
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Although considering that Phanta even only being able to delete something equivalent to all the stars visible to the naked eye from earth (a Volume with a radius of about 4000 light years) would make him way more powerful than the collective meant to stop the Conqueror King, who's probably stronger than Phanta given the way everything's framed, I'd say that Phanta being able to destroy the ToG Story shouldn't include the stars, but rather just The Outside World. (Of course, given the the outside world is according to Urek, apparently a million times freer than the Tower, which has a minimum of 11 times the surface area of the Earth, that's still flonking huge) (Freer mght not just mean surface area though given the government of the Tower...)

Still, I don't think any of this should be considered for Phanta since it's super old and also infokilled. Dropping everything to Unknown sounds better tbh.
 
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Gabriel_00 said:
About the Administrator calc, it should be done using the volume of the floor not just the area(if possible).
Click to expand...

I asked Aubin this and is not possible, it would require a lot of information (which we don't have yet) and some assumptions, so the calc that we have now is the most accurate
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
I'm bringing this again:

What do you think?
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I'd like for the powerscaling to be explained first before any thoughts. (I'm assuming it's Kallavan walking through a Green April ignition and managing to disperse a Rose Shower with a hole in his chest, versus Kallavan stating that the Black and White Wings Flare Wave could have taken off his arm? Because if so, remember that Black and White Wings are a kind of Flare Wave Explosion, AKA a Floral Butterfly Piercing Technique, which ignores conventional durability. Being able to nearly take off Kallavan's arm that way is a different display of power than Stardust being able to scratch Kallavan)
 
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@ElajRuengies

Well, I will explain to you then: Base Yuri (Her AP is 5,972 Teratons) < Yuri with Green April Ignition (Kept up with a severely weakened EoBF Kallavan, but when he got serious, managed to push back her away with casual explosion ) = Post-Clone White (He barely do any injury to Base Kallavan in 1x1 fight, and after decided to attack from a distance and the fact that Kallavan did not want any damage the peaceful wall with his explosions to have any chance, but was overpowered and severely harmed by his two attacks after he used some of the EoB power) = The Nest Arc Karaka (He did as well as Post-Clone White against Kallavan, who used the same amount of power that he used on the peaceful wall against White) << Season 3 True Self Mode Baam (Kallavan implied that Baam's power is considerably superior to that of Karaka in his internal monologues) <<< True Self Mode Baam with 2nd Thorn (Should be far stronger than before, as the Thorn normally increase the power of user by a good margin)

In addition as I said before, the Piercing Technique being able to affect its target also depends on the user's power to cause any damage, remember, the Piercing Technique version of Black March Mode Baam and his Stardust when using the 1st Thorn Ignition hit Kallavan and he doesn't sensed anything from these two attacks (I know the Stardust do a scratch, but Kallavan don't noticed until Evankhell speak due to how insignificant damage was) and this Baam almost taken off his arm with a Piercing Technique and Kallavan realized the shock of Baam's attack through his whole body. I'm not saying that normal attacks are as strong as his Piercing Techniques, but I'm just clarifying a few things.

Also, I don't think you should compare the damage that the Transcendental Skills of the Last Station Baam with 1st Thorn Ignition and Current True Self Mode Baam did against Kallavan, his power greatly increased during two years of training to the point that even his current base now is as strong as his True Self Mode of the Last Station events
 
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ElajRuengies said:
Still, I don't think any of this should be considered for Phanta since it's super old and also infokilled. Dropping everything to Unknown sounds better tbh.
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To be honest, i don't even think we should have a Phantaminum profile, we don't know how he looks like or how he fights.
 
Arceus0x said:
OPM has a God profile while we only have seen his appearance and we know the fact that he has power bestowal. Pretty sure having a Phantaminum profile is alright.
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I'm not saying it isn't alright, it's just that there's so little information that it can barelly even be used in matches since we lack so much information to actually debate about it.
 
Gabriel_00 said:
I'm not saying it isn't alright, it's just that there's so little information that it can barelly even be used in matches since we lack so much information to actually debate about it.
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Yes, we know, and that's why I'm proposing to downgrade Phantaminum to Unknown, since we don't know much about him and it's the best we can do.
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
@ElajRuengies

Well, I will explain to you then: Base Yuri (Her AP is 5,972 Teratons) < Yuri with Green April Ignition (Kept up with a severely weakened EoBF Kallavan, but when he got serious, managed to push back her away with casual explosion ) = Post-Clone White (He barely do any injury to Base Kallavan in 1x1 fight, and after decided to attack from a distance and the fact that Kallavan did not want any damage the peaceful wall with his explosions to have any chance, but was overpowered and severely harmed by his two attacks after he used some of the EoB power) = The Nest Arc Karaka (He did well as Post-Clone White against Kallavan, who used the same amount of power that he used on the peaceful wall against White) << Season 3 True Self Mode Baam (Kallavan implied that Baam's power is considerably superior to that of Karaka in his internal monologues) <<< True Self Mode Baam with 2nd Thorn (Should be far stronger than before, as the Thorn normally increase the power of user by a good margin)

In addition as I said before, the Piercing Technique being able to affect its target also depends on the user's power to cause any damage, remember, the Piercing Technique version of Black March Mode Baam and his Stardust when using the 1st Thorn Ignition hit Kallavan and he doesn't sensed anything from these two attacks (I know the Stardust do a scratch, but Kallavan don't noticed until Evankhell speak due to how insignificant damage was) and this Baam almost taken off his arm with a Piercing Technique and Kallavan realized the shock of Baam's attack through his whole body. I'm not saying that normal attacks are as strong as his Piercing Techniques, but I'm just clarifying a few things.

Also, I don't think you should compare the damage that the Transcendental Skills of the Last Station Baam with 1st Thorn Ignition and Current True Self Mode Baam did against Kallavan, his power greatly increased during two years of training to the point that even his current base now is as strong as his True Self Mode of the Last Station events
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Alright that's fair, although I'd say that while the 2nd Thorn Ignition would increase Bam's power significantly, it wouldn't increase his AP as much as the 1st Thorn Ignition would since it's a Spatial Controlling-item, as opposed to a Shinsoo Controlling-item. (Of course, it'd still increase his AP notably given that the act of ignition would do that general) Likely 6-B sounds good

(Side Note: While it makes sense, having all of Phanta's stats be "Unknown" is super funny to me since we're basically coming to the same conclusion as the Ranking Bureau for the exact same reasons, albeit in a meta sense)
 
ElajRuengies said:
Alright that's fair, although I'd say that while the 2nd Thorn Ignition would increase Bam's power significantly, it wouldn't increase his AP as much as the 1st Thorn Ignition would since it's a Spatial Controlling-item, as opposed to a Shinsoo Controlling-item. (Of course, it'd still increase his AP notably given that the act of ignition would do that general) Likely 6-B sounds good

(Side Note: While it makes sense, having all of Phanta's stats be "Unknown" is super funny to me since we're basically coming to the same conclusion as the Ranking Bureau for the exact same reasons, albeit in a meta sense)
Click to expand...
True, the way the discussion is going so far, we look like the people of the Ranking Bureau discussing the Rankers' ranking instead of AP as we did
 
Also, what do you think about having the Key for Yu Han Sung during the Nest Arc events? His AP would be: Small Country level+, since he could fight against Cheonhee with Karaka's subordinates' help (not that they are strong compared to her, since Gromm would easily have been killed by a weaker Cheonhee at the Last Station Battle, and the Karaka's followers are comparable to each other) and was apparently fine after he was forced to leave of Karaka's dimension, but unfortunately the whole fight was off-screen. What do you think?
 
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Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Also, what do you think about having the Key for Yu Han Sung during the Nest Arc events? His AP would be: Small Country level+, since he could fight against Cheonhee with Karaka's subordinates' help (not that they are strong compared to her, since Gromm would easily have been killed by a weaker Cheonhee at the Last Station Battle, and the Karaka's followers are comparable to each other) and was apparently fine after he was forced to leave of Karaka's dimension, but unfortunately the whole fight was off-screen. What do you think?
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While it would make sense, the whole fight was offscreen so... Just to be safe I'd leave Coffee-man where he is
 
Still think eternal youth = \ = type 1 immortality
Btw can we add curse manip for administrator via Bloodmadder curse ?
 
Immortality

1: Eternal Life: Characters gifted with this type of immortality cannot die from natural causes, such as old age or conventional illness, but can be killed by unnatural causes. To clarify, this type of immortality can include both those who do not age at all, and those who still grow old, but will never die of old age. However, in the case of the latter it should be made clear that this is not just Longevity, as characters with that ability will eventually die of old age, as opposed to Eternal Life, for which dying of old age is not possible.

This is still immortality

Yet, this is not Longevity, since there is also the fact that Jinsung said that even though they get older, their bodies don't weaken, they don't actually get stronger: https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-2-ep-310/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=391

About the Floor Guardians' Curse Manipulation, I agree, but I will wait for the opinion of others
 
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I agree with curse manipulation.

If i remember right, they also don't get sick, if they don't they are basically the definition of type 1 immortality.
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Yes, they don't get sick, Jinsung himself said this
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They can get sick of shinsu sickness, which is an special in verse sickness, like allergies to shinsu, which is dumb, cause you're literally allergic to the equivalent of air.

Also I propose limited causality manipulation to Jordan via bullet that pierces uncertainity(aka Transformation phase 2)

Because i'm sure that
"Homing Attack (He can control his shinsoo to have it attack where he desires and anyone in his sight will inevitably get hit by one of his shoots)"
People will think it is NLF, and it is, no homing attack is 100% going to hit, see Frieza attack.

However
Jordan-1.png

Jordan-2.png

Jordan-3.png

Jordan-4.png

Jordan-5.png

Jordan-6.png

Jordan-7.png

Jordan-8.png

Jordan-9.png

If it is not limited causality manip then whatever it is, but it is not a homing attack.

edit: some People say it is Probability manip
so yeah, limited prob manip
 
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To me sounds more like causality manipulation than probability, because he didn't even move, the bullet basically teleported on the target.
 
What i'm saying is that probability manipulation doesn't make a bullet curve. It could be a combination of probability and homing attack, but causality seems more accurate.
 
I don't remember the chapter, but its happen in the very beginning of the Nest Arc if you want to see the feat and confirm which power is
 
By that do you mean- were they not using their full power, or were they fighting at full power but in a vastly reduced space-? Because I think it's a bit of both.

Given how the 2nd Floor Administrator got super annoyed at all the Ranker ruckus (and Evankhell doing the opposite of her job as a Floor Ruler by causing more ruckus), and the 43rd Admin was enraged with the mass slaughter byb Enryu, it seems like Admin's care more about the size of the area affected by fights (thus how much damage is being done to the Floor), rather than how much power is actually being used.

The distance covered in Karaka and Yuri's first fight was pretty spacious given that it was only two people going it at it, and Yuri's first Rose Shower had a giant AoE. Cut to the Last Station and there's an entire Division (and later 3/4ths of a whole Squadron) of people around Yuri's level all pulling up, but the Floor Ruler only intervenes after Evankhell shows up and raises AoE Hell. Other than Evankhell going crazy, the fights are much more compact (such as Yuri's Rose Shower being almost totally confined to Cheonhee's Vortex of Doom), with even Jinsung versus Kallavan only happening with the space of a few hundred meters max.

With that said, every time Evankhell raises AoE Hell, it still says "Partial Release of Ancient Power", and if the terminology is following the same logic as Kallavan's Partial Release of the EoB, then it means Evankhell still isn't going all out.

In other words, Ancient Power Folk are limited to only using some of their full ancient power, not because of the actual potency, but because of the insane AoE it causes which makes the Admin very angry because they apparently believe in quantity over quality.

(This CRT is becoming another ToG Discussion Thread...)
 
Can somebody summarise your conclusions here please?
 
Antvasima said:
Can somebody summarise your conclusions here please?
Click to expand...

Accepted: Madness/Fear Manipulation and resistance to it for majority, if not all characters, Immortality Type 1, Administratos's Illusion Creation, All "Likely 6-B" will become "6-B", Size Manipulation for Urek, Reactive Power Level and Accelerated Development [Battle] for Baam, BFR for Karaka, Limb Creation for Kallavan, Berserk Mode for Paul, Downgrade from High 7-A to At least 7-A and At least Low 6-B, at most 6-B to Low 6-B, Redan Multiplier, Merging keys, AP, Precog to Zahard, Resistance to Precog for Baam, Zahard and Family Heads, Purification (Type 3) for Baam, Limited Probability Manipulation for Jordan, in addition to the Floor Guardian calculation being completed

Rejected: Non-Physical Interaction, Resistances to Disease and Fire Manipulation
 
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