Touhou Thread Part 4: Youkai are Unbreakable

[Andykhang]

^The general mook one that is. You tried to said that to the face of Yukari, or Suika, or Yuuka. Getting atomize by them would be considered lucky.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

A Oni? *Throws Roasted beans*

 

[Andykhang]

That wouldn't work on Suika. More over, she enjoy getting hit by it as people enjoying the festival

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Damn *********.

 

[Andykhang]

^Not really, just drunk and playful.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Anyway, back to topic. Very unlikely for Youkai to be much different than gods.

 

[Andykhang]

Agree

 

[DontTalk]

Hmm... well, ok.

I would still be hesitant to give them all low-godly Regenerationn as generaly just instantly getting their bodies back might not be the case, if their bodies are completly destroy (in other words split into more than 5 parts for example), but "Immortality type 8 (exist as long as humans believe in them, can however be non the less be killed through attacks which target their weaknesses or attacks with tradition, religions, names, purification etc.)" seems reasonable.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well if being split in 5 parts is considered to not do anything to them I doubt more physical damage would, but I guess Immortality is fine.

 

[Andykhang]

^Stronger one would do that just fine though. (Remeber Suika, the one that literally split herself apart into mist just to come together again?)

 

[Yamatohime]

Well the reasons why Youkai are so easly killable despite Type 8 Immortality is because they have a shitton of weaknesses.

It's more like Reimu knew everyone of her enemy or just guess their weaknesses.

Some of them just follow the rules though. It's not like someone like Alice, Suika or Shiki Eiki have many weaknesses (Alice was said do not any at all, and Suika can't be defeated without proper ritual).

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well Reimu's whole purpose is to kill Youkai and she has tons of anti-youkai stuff so I'm guessing she doesn't actually needs to have their weaknesss at bay.

 

[Yamatohime]

Well Reimu's whole purpose is to kill Youkai and she has tons of anti-youkai stuff so I'm guessing she doesn't actually needs to have their weaknesss at bay.

As was mentioned by me before - one need to know what kind of youkai you dealing with or else it exercise in futility. Of course, her YYOrbs was especialy created to deal with youkais so those artifacts can adapt to her enemy. But Reimu's intuition is good too. She could create ofuda and needles that would be effective vs current incedent creators.

Marisa can Master Spark her way (additionaly she is not stupid and actualy youkai exterminator on her own).

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I guess so.

So..has this thread reached a conclusion? Gods get Immortality Type 8 and Youkai gets type 8 but weak to spiritual stuff and things?

 

[Yamatohime]

So..has this thread reached a conclusion? Gods get Immortality Type 8 and Youkai gets type 8 but weak to spiritual stuff and things?

They both have the same advantages and weaknesses but youkais do not have names (except maybe some of them) and personalities in their myths: so when they die - they will lose personality.

Additionally it seems that onis do not have that kind of immortality. Alice and Patchy too. Likely some others too. Yukari and Yuuka for example.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Except Magicians, you pretty much named the most powerful youkai of Gensokyo, I REALLY doubt those are much weaker than normal youkai.

 

[Yamatohime]

Except Magicians, you pretty much named the most powerful youkai of Gensokyo, I REALLY doubt those are much weaker than normal youkai.

Onis can be killed for real. With forgotten ritual. Or extensive brute force. Good luck with this.

Yuuka and Yukari can probably regenerate with extreme speed though to compensate. Add here their resilence and attack power with cunning knowledge.

As for current youkais. They never were killed. And their death should strip off their personality and accumulated experience.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Not to be rude but where are you taking this from? There have been no indication they lose immortality just because they are more independent. In fact, I haven't seen anything saying Yukari or the others are completely independent.

 

[Yamatohime]

Not to be rude but where are you taking this from?
There have been no indication they lose immortality just because they are more independent. In fact, I haven't seen anything saying Yukari or the others are completely independent.

Since all this thread about is around assuming things and comparison with other info to make conclusion... I don't have myths that support onis and some powerful beings to be able to reform completely.

Add here that onis do not need human belief to exist from the start. They moved undeground because humans stopped believing in them. Not disappeared.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

We have some degree of power scaling + statements to support this.

Saying that Yukari is more easily killable because of her supposed lack of needs to live on humans belief seems too far-fetched

 

[Yamatohime]

We have some degree of power scaling + statements to support this.
Saying that Yukari is more easily killable because of her supposed lack of needs to live on humans belief seems too far-fetched

Why is it? So we were not come to conclusion that youkais are immortal as long as they can be manifested as human fears. This way it will be harder to give them immortality. If at all...

And as far as I understand. Powerscaling do not work with abilities.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Because it's pretty inconsistent and baseless. Unlike the immortal thing, which is consistent and has statements for it

 

[Yamatohime]

Because it's pretty inconsistent and baseless. Unlike the immortal thing, which is consistent and has statements for it

Youkais are inconsistent from the start. The ones like Ran and Chen can be killed for real while more abstract like Rumia should have fairy-like immortality. Youkais are not equal.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Again, where are you getting that Ran is not immortal? It has been stated ALL youkai runs on belief

 

[Yamatohime]

Again, where are you getting that Ran is not immortal? It has been stated ALL youkai runs on belief

Let's return to the point one then. Where it is stated that she is immortal?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Not the point. It's been stated all youkai are like that, no reason to think she isn't unless otherwise stated

 

[Yamatohime]

Not the point. It's been stated all youkai are like that, no reason to think she isn't unless otherwise stated

Youkais are not equal. Kitsunes as species can exist as long as humans believe in them. But specific individual can easily be killed. Rumia on other hand is one of its kind. And abstart to boot. So she is as individual can exist as long as humans afraid of darkness.

P.S.: Let's wait for others reply though. We can run around for eternity this way.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

...Again, where are you getting this? Can you cite your sources when saying something? I haven't seen Rumia being treated as one of her kind ever .

 

[Yamatohime]

...Again, where are you getting this? Can you cite your sources when saying something? I haven't seen Rumia being treated as one of her kind ever .

Because she is stated alone and not as part of species.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

So you are saying that only the few single-member species of youkai are immortal? Despite that all youkai are almost immune to physical damage?

 

[Andykhang]

^Well... you could said some Youkai die off in different way. Like the Yamabiko is starved to death because no one come to the mountain anymore to scream. Kitsune like Ran is more closely to God than to Youkai, so you can't really said she's one of the traditional Youkai either. Oni is more like willful ignorant in this case, so you could said that people still fear them. And i have no idea about irregular like Yukari and Yuuka.

 

[Yamatohime]

Ran is still young to become close to deities. She still has all of her nine-tails while those close to god-tier according to myths should lose five tails after obtaining nine.

 

[Aurugermil]

...Again, where are you getting this? Can you cite your sources when saying something? I haven't seen Rumia being treated as one of her kind ever .

It came from one line on the touhouwiki. The actual line is "She is one of the few youkai that doesn't seem to belong to any particular species."

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Not belonging to any particular species =/= Being your own species.

Beside, this is the Touhou wiki just interpreting her lack of specific species as this, not any true canon info.

Also a youkai NOT running on belief would be highly impossible, or at least would be more notable than "We don't know which belief they run on" like Yukari or Yuuka.

 

[Andykhang]

^I does find Yukari to have some connection to the Greek Mythology (specifically, to Hermes) though. So there's that.

Unrelated talk aside.From what i see, Youkai doesn't have a permanent physical body, so it's really unlikely that they're going to die due to old age like we do(and we even find some that get stronger the more older they're). They could die to unnatural cause like being exterminate or being left starved to death. Technically though, they would be immortal.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Them dying of old age might be based on their belief that they lived a long life too. Maybe not everyone strives for immortality. Agreeing with Andy over here.

And no one really knows who Rumia is aside from being an embodiment of darkness, at least is what I like to think.

And again, agreeing with Saikou here. They could've been independent, but some like Letty and the deities and other manifestations of fear (etc Rumia and Mystia) are created. Why do you think are they capable at night? Or strikes at night? Well at least that's what I like to believe. A youkai might become stronger if they strike at night if they're feared at night by everyone in the village, or something like that.

 

[Yamatohime]

Also a youkai NOT running on belief would be highly impossible, or at least would be more notable than "We don't know which belief they run on" like Yukari or Yuuka.

Magician types and ghost types.

Well, thinking logicaly I suggest to split youkais into two major categories: the natural ones (born from belief) and ascended ones (that evolve somehow into youkai species).

The first ones are beings like Rumia and Yukari. The second ones are Alice and Ran.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Pretty sure it would only apply to Magician. "Beasts" youkai changes form when they get to their Youkai form and are clearly more youkai-like (And seems born from belief too). Magician are just humans with magic and a bit more magic.

 

[Yamatohime]

Nope, the beast youkai have to survive some time to ascend.

 

[Yamatohime]

Argh! I can't edit on phone.

Well, nope... The beast youkai have to survive fore some time to ascend, or devour human, or drink human blood, or be changed into one.

All of them were no different from normal but like youkai magicians they need to fullfil specific req to become youkai.