Touhou Project Conceptual Manipulation Downgrade

[TheGreatJedi13]

This is for another thread buddy.

i mean i can make another thread for it if necessary
but tbh it still falls under
Elde just had to pick Yukari as example rather than a random with only spell card since as part of the group who planned this CRT. i was only informed about tackling Spellcards and i even said in the first page i still think God's and etc still falls as Type 1 or 2 concept just that Spellcard lookin kinda sus

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Can the 2hoe fans defeat the anus fans for the third time? Will Names get downgraded? Will I have more of this ongoing series?

Watch in the next episode of vs battles Z

 

[ImmortalDread]

sure we can create a new thread, since this one is somehow really rushed through spamming vote tally.

 

[StrymULTRA]

The thread was about the concept manipulation in general for the verse.

Spell cards are only a minor part of it which doesn't even address the names like the OP.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The thread was about the concept manipulation in general for the verse.

Spell cards are only a minor part of it which doesn't even address the names like the OP.

So you want us to create a new thread?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Thanks for opening the thread. the argument I have is regarding spell cards which are rated the same concept hax type 1 for being created by a Concept Type 1

Names being Type 2 or Type 1 is irrelevant to it


True but only God's gave name to something that governs reality as a whole. and people naming God's is only affecting an aspect of those Gods and such making them only express those aspect they got named on. A Few cases like Yukari for being able to control boundary would only actually fall under Type 1 or 2 for Concept hax due to the extent of what her boundary covers and can do. Others like Cirno (I Like Cirno) do not exhibit nor is shown capable of making name for such a concept that would govern an entire reality at best it is personal concept born from their powers.

To start, the power to name, in any context, is the same power as the gods. That is directly stated; When you name something, you're doing the same thing the gods did at the beginning of reality. So if you accept that names in that context are type 1, then all other names are type 1 too.

You seem to keep ignoring that gods are ideas that exist across reality. To name a god, and therefore change its nature, is to change an idea across reality. That is explicitly type 1 or 2, and yes, regular people can do this as well.

I can use Fire because the concept of fire make it exist and governs it but that doesn't mean i can concept hax fire to either make an equivalent concept.
What I'm pointing with this is that despite the capabiltiy of what naming can entail not everyone is capable of using it to an extent that would qualify the concept they created from it to Type 2 let alone 1.

Yes, that's what makes it limited. These characters can't destroy concepts, only create new ones are replace existing ones. That doesn't change the nature of the concept they're manipulating though.

Exactly they are making those concepts but those concept doesn't automatically default to Type 1 just because it is created by Type 1 concept. Although the Type 1 concept have feats of creating another Type 1 concept (Like Boundary like you argued as much as i disagree with that) that doesn't mean everything it creates is a Type 1 Concept.
Some universal Concept named by it can be dependent like existence and nonexistence like you said
and some beings in gensokyo can make concept using name to make Personal Concept or personal attack that doesn't necessary govern reality but rather creates the Powers of Spellcard they wanted to make to create those special moves.

If you are bestowing a type 1 concept on something, even if that thing is a type 3 concept, that is still type 1 CM. If they didn't have type 1 CM, they would be wholly unable to give names to anything. Furthermore, it is not taking a pre-existing concept and applying it to something else. None of the names these characters create exist before they, well, create them. They are clearly creating new concepts on a whim, and while the extent of that creation is somewhat limited, it is still creating a type 1 concept. It is very possible to have type 1 concepts govern a small AoE.

Anyways, this is just a rehash of old bullshit. I'm asking for this to be closed.

 

[StrymULTRA]

So you want us to create a new thread?

Yes.

Because the Names argument has been addressed, Spell Cards are a whole other thing and Names won't be affected from it.

3 pages are made from just arguing around Names, just saying.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I requested now its closure. Lets hope Strym don't join other one and ruin girls fun

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

If you are bestowing a type 1 concept on something, even if that thing is a type 3 concept, that is still type 1 CM. If they didn't have type 1 CM, they would be wholly unable to give names to anything. Furthermore, it is not taking a pre-existing concept and applying it to something else. None of the names these characters create exist before they, well, create them. They are clearly creating new concepts on a whim, and while the extent of that creation is somewhat limited, it is still creating a type 1 concept. It is very possible to have type 1 concepts govern a small AoE.

It is not. and they do not specifically need to manipulate that Type 1 Concept to make concept. they can just use the laws governed by it. they are not changing how the concept works nor how it functions. nor are they creating new concepts similar to Names nor destroying

Concept manipulation is specifically Creating, manipulating/changing, destroying concepts

What they have as a feat is basically creating new concepts using this laws that is granted to everyone as a concept and by doing so they abide to the rules of this concept to use it.
i can use the concept of existence to make myself exist
i can use the concept of causality to interact with reality but i'm never in any situation are manipulating them

anyway since closure is sure
if you have more scans please prepare them in in the new thread since we're still gonna have this exchange regardless

 

[StrymULTRA]

I requested now its closure. Lets hope Strym don't join other one and ruin girls fun

Excuse me?

 

[Reiner04]

I requested now its closure. Lets hope Strym don't join other one and ruin girls fun

I'll be the one having fun no else.

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara I guess so, we got enough staff to comment on this, plus this thread clearly was made out of spite so I don't really see the reason to keep this up.

You can close it.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Excuse me?

u heard me ;(

 

[ImmortalDread]

glass is having debate with me in private, (he is losing)

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

If you can take a concept, even if it already exists, and make it apply to something else, you are by definition manipulating it. You would have to prove that names aren't type 1 for this downgrade to apply, but no way in hell that's happening.

Of course, that is ignoring how these names don't exist before spell card users create them, which is even more explicitly CM.

 

[Reiner04]

glass is having debate with me in private, (he is losing)

I see.