-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Touhou General Discussion Thread 1: Kasen stahp. (also spoilers, so uhh yeah)
- Thread starter Junkoposter
- Start date
- 6,559
- 1,260
- Thread starter
- #442
-_-
- 2,730
- 831
Theres a difference between only accepting things with good enough evidence and being stubborn. Being stubborn can lead either to bias, ignorance or a wide misinterpretation of the material given to you, potentially all three.
Obviously i wouldnt suggest letting fanon such as high 1-B through. But it wouldnt be unreasonable for you to losen your grip a little, and be at least somewhat open to the future possibility of touhou becoming a currently questionable higher tier. You will find that you will have a better understanding of what the series intails and touhou fans outside the wiki may at least come to respect you and vs battles a little more than they currently do.
Obviously i wouldnt suggest letting fanon such as high 1-B through. But it wouldnt be unreasonable for you to losen your grip a little, and be at least somewhat open to the future possibility of touhou becoming a currently questionable higher tier. You will find that you will have a better understanding of what the series intails and touhou fans outside the wiki may at least come to respect you and vs battles a little more than they currently do.
- 2,616
- 165
... The reason why we have all these buffs on the first place is because of Saikou. And I'm not just talking about Universal, but the fact we got so far in Solar System in the first place. Just because someone isn't catering to your desired upgrades doesn't mean they're in the wrong. It doesn't mean they're being stubborn for a bad reason. It means there's legitimacy and the need to avoid immense wank and a sudden hatred for this series in this forum regardless of power levels. If you apply this to any other verse aside from Touhou, you WILL get this reception no matter what. Especially if it's done before and before and before, and these upgrades have been laughed at parts of the forum where we make fun of such outrageous claims that are just too unreal.
But to summarize...
Put it on my wall in that case. If you can convince I'll vouch for you all. But don't try to get it into massive walls of text since I can't use up as much time here for those.
But to summarize...
Put it on my wall in that case. If you can convince I'll vouch for you all. But don't try to get it into massive walls of text since I can't use up as much time here for those.
- 2,730
- 831
Well, i personally dont think saikou is truly as stubborn as people (or himself?) make him out to be. But when people see their verse being misrepresented (or at least in their own eyes), by a huge wiki such as this, youre bound to get major criticism.
But saikou can overreact a little when comes to touhou potentially being a higher tier and come across as almost paranoid about them being too high. Even high 1-C i dont see out of the realm of possibility, though there isnt enough evidence for that atm. Objectivity and intent is important when trying to accurately portray a verse like touhou, and as of right now, the wiki is pretty poor when it comes to handling it in quite a few areas, not even focusing on tiers.
I might help out with some of the touhou stuff later down the line. But explaining it in proper detail would involve lots of links and well, explaining. But I personally have touhou as at least 2-C, possibly 2-B. Yukaris boundary is seperate from her ap so yeah.
Also ive honestly seen verses get upgraded using far more assumptions than even a high 1-C touhou. Normally depends on who the main "knowledgeable member(s)" is on said verse.
But saikou can overreact a little when comes to touhou potentially being a higher tier and come across as almost paranoid about them being too high. Even high 1-C i dont see out of the realm of possibility, though there isnt enough evidence for that atm. Objectivity and intent is important when trying to accurately portray a verse like touhou, and as of right now, the wiki is pretty poor when it comes to handling it in quite a few areas, not even focusing on tiers.
I might help out with some of the touhou stuff later down the line. But explaining it in proper detail would involve lots of links and well, explaining. But I personally have touhou as at least 2-C, possibly 2-B. Yukaris boundary is seperate from her ap so yeah.
Also ive honestly seen verses get upgraded using far more assumptions than even a high 1-C touhou. Normally depends on who the main "knowledgeable member(s)" is on said verse.
Well, I saw the statements for Higher-Dimensional stuff, being honest it can be argued, but also, it can be easily debunked, since mostly are just false associaton with Gensokyo being a brane world
Anyway Low 2-C Keiki when?
Anyway Low 2-C Keiki when?
- 2,730
- 831
String theory multiverse is arguably legit. Though how they scale is questionable. Tbh, i dont see any evidence for them scaling above 2-B that will let me at least vaguely buy into it
@Cirno fortress. But im curious, which feats do you think are 2-C?
@Cirno fortress. But im curious, which feats do you think are 2-C?
Btw why I can't add image to this wiki?
This avatar is a really limited nigh omnipotence >:v
This avatar is a really limited nigh omnipotence >:v
- 2,616
- 165
@Read this post
On the first place disagreements happen like this. This is the case for other big stuff like DC, Marvel, Shonen, etc. It's fine to argue and honestly sometimes I want to let it happen but to say it's "criticizable" is like saying water is wet. There's always gonna be disagreements since it's impossible to please everyone.
It's not an overreaction. It's legit absurd in the standings here. You have to really speculate to even get that far to Touhou from all those Tier 1 feats. People legitimately laugh at those absurd claims, because they are absurd. It's too reaching man. You have to apply theories and such in such a verse? To consider so many factors that are just too separate? Yeah that's not gonna cut it. I'm sorry. Those are becoming NLFs. We all have the intent to potray as accurately powerful as they are. You seem them as too weak here. We see them as too strong there. It becomes near offensive for both sides to see what the other thinks is fact.
It's just, waaay too much considering Yukari's flaws. Heck even I'm considering they're not rightfully placed on these tiers.
What verses are these? Share them with me? Some have legitimate standings, but others would have the same situation and must be nerfed immediately.
@2nd response
Like I said, every existing feat totals out to what it is now, and that's already reaching. Anything that uses the term infinity, but those are already quite a shove.
Yukari cannot possibly be superior to any other one of them at this point.
I can't spend all day here talking about 2B 2hu by the way so I'm just asking to message me at my message wall, in something that doesn't look like a novel.
On the first place disagreements happen like this. This is the case for other big stuff like DC, Marvel, Shonen, etc. It's fine to argue and honestly sometimes I want to let it happen but to say it's "criticizable" is like saying water is wet. There's always gonna be disagreements since it's impossible to please everyone.
It's not an overreaction. It's legit absurd in the standings here. You have to really speculate to even get that far to Touhou from all those Tier 1 feats. People legitimately laugh at those absurd claims, because they are absurd. It's too reaching man. You have to apply theories and such in such a verse? To consider so many factors that are just too separate? Yeah that's not gonna cut it. I'm sorry. Those are becoming NLFs. We all have the intent to potray as accurately powerful as they are. You seem them as too weak here. We see them as too strong there. It becomes near offensive for both sides to see what the other thinks is fact.
It's just, waaay too much considering Yukari's flaws. Heck even I'm considering they're not rightfully placed on these tiers.
What verses are these? Share them with me? Some have legitimate standings, but others would have the same situation and must be nerfed immediately.
@2nd response
Like I said, every existing feat totals out to what it is now, and that's already reaching. Anything that uses the term infinity, but those are already quite a shove.
Yukari cannot possibly be superior to any other one of them at this point.
I can't spend all day here talking about 2B 2hu by the way so I'm just asking to message me at my message wall, in something that doesn't look like a novel.
- 2,730
- 831
Yeah, people will disagree. My point is just that if the person who arranges a verse comes across as or is stubborn, youre going to distance a lot of the community away noteably if combine with a heavy misunderstanding of many things in the verse.
Thats not even what i mean by an overreaction but alright.
Honestly I really dont see any feat in touhou as an outlier when it has barely any contradictions or inconsistencies, unless its something completely ridiculous like cirno multiverse busting or suika shattering 1-A structures. If i get the time ill message you about it.
Thats not even what i mean by an overreaction but alright.
Honestly I really dont see any feat in touhou as an outlier when it has barely any contradictions or inconsistencies, unless its something completely ridiculous like cirno multiverse busting or suika shattering 1-A structures. If i get the time ill message you about it.
- 15,407
- 5,718
I hope you realize how ******* high balled the verse is right now.
If it was anyone but me spearheading the verse, half of that shit wouldn't have happened. Prom likely wouldn't have let High 3-A happen, and DT would have kept everyone at Tier 6.
If it was anyone but me spearheading the verse, half of that shit wouldn't have happened. Prom likely wouldn't have let High 3-A happen, and DT would have kept everyone at Tier 6.
- 2,730
- 831
Just because you ranked a verse much higher than someone else did, doesnt mean youre highballing it.
Im just saying that you should try harder to at least look a little more objective and better understand the verse. Because well, basically every touhou fan ive encountered that knows of but doesnt very actively use this wiki reeeeeally dislikes this place.
Im just saying that you should try harder to at least look a little more objective and better understand the verse. Because well, basically every touhou fan ive encountered that knows of but doesnt very actively use this wiki reeeeeally dislikes this place.
Admit it SaikouSaikou The Lewd King said:
You like that 2hu is Tier 2 ;v
You liked the Reimu slapping kokum, YUkari stomping Bill, and possibly that Okina solos GoW
- 15,407
- 5,718
Don't worry I understand the verse enough. Enough to know that nearly every single argument for high tier Touhou is bogus, and that the verse does not at all support the existence of Touhou being that high.
- 2,730
- 831
Just like what you said with tier 2 ^_^
Yeah, you know so much of the verse that the profiles does not have the 50% of the main abilities of the characters (Saikou The Lewd King said:
- 2,730
- 831
...Anybody got that manga picture of cirno drinking tea?
No, FRead this post said:
ÆONS
He/Him- 1,487
- 1,031
Yeah its the same thing for me. Lots of people who are indeed knowledgeable about the verse tear their hair out whenever saikou debunks any upgrade using whatever fallacious and flawed logic, especially when Antvasima made him an Administrator because Yes. Personally I am convinced of a High 1-C, possibly far higher Touhou, so take that as you may. I also think that a ton more detail and abilities is needed.Read this post said:
- 2,616
- 165
@Look
Talk to another Admin like that and you're on a sure route to get banned mate. Just a friendly advice.
Edit - Well on bad blood at least. Not banned lol
@ Read's response to my response
Not gonna argue any further on the other points since we seem to be on agreement but to focus- Well distancing or not, it's about also being true to what's represented. I can guarantee you, no matter how much you push it, it doesn't need to be the actual Touhou community to reject. It's the entire board itself that would reject.
Some contradictions can be fixed with our own interpretations of what happened. These interpretations can be wrong or right. They can have a strong or weak foundation. That's all there is to it.
Also Tier 2C was already being pushed far for a good reason. It was the absolute limit of Touhou. Even before you all arrived there were jokings and possibilities of it to happen. Anything higher? Well, I said what I said above on it being mocked.
Talk to another Admin like that and you're on a sure route to get banned mate. Just a friendly advice.
Edit - Well on bad blood at least. Not banned lol
@ Read's response to my response
Not gonna argue any further on the other points since we seem to be on agreement but to focus- Well distancing or not, it's about also being true to what's represented. I can guarantee you, no matter how much you push it, it doesn't need to be the actual Touhou community to reject. It's the entire board itself that would reject.
Some contradictions can be fixed with our own interpretations of what happened. These interpretations can be wrong or right. They can have a strong or weak foundation. That's all there is to it.
Also Tier 2C was already being pushed far for a good reason. It was the absolute limit of Touhou. Even before you all arrived there were jokings and possibilities of it to happen. Anything higher? Well, I said what I said above on it being mocked.
- 2,616
- 165
@AEONs
Where would these Touhou people be? I'm seeing you three right now so far (Look, read, Aeons). Not being mean, just curious if they're here
Where would these Touhou people be? I'm seeing you three right now so far (Look, read, Aeons). Not being mean, just curious if they're here
- 10,557
- 11,752
Saikou The Lewd King said:
- 2,730
- 831
- 10,557
- 11,752
- 2,730
- 831
- 2,730
- 831
@Aeons Tbf debating touhou here can be pretty frustrating here mainly when saikou heavily disagrees (which may not be entirely his fault) and i can almost see where they are coming from. I would have totally lost it in the first half of that scaling thread if i werent so overly patient.
But seriously, this is a discussion thread. Not a bully saikou thread
- 2,616
- 165
@Aeons
Ah well can't be helped if they don't want to join in. Meanwhile I'm in a Discord group that laughs at the concept of Touhou being above planetary last I talked to them about it.
@Read this post
Honestly you guys keep blaming Saikou for your upgrades on being acceptable. Have you considered that they're just hypothetical and better off for fanworks or such?
Debating in general is frustrating.
Ah well can't be helped if they don't want to join in. Meanwhile I'm in a Discord group that laughs at the concept of Touhou being above planetary last I talked to them about it.
@Read this post
Honestly you guys keep blaming Saikou for your upgrades on being acceptable. Have you considered that they're just hypothetical and better off for fanworks or such?
Debating in general is frustrating.
- 15,407
- 5,718
Low 2-C happened because of new feats. Not via resurrecting that ******* Akyuu quote for the 16th time in a row.
- 2,616
- 165
Not to mention the fact that it has NUMEROUS backings form other existing feats, though some of those already reside on shaky foundations like Komachi's ability to make infinite distance and such.
- 2,730
- 831
@Ciruno Thats a complete strawman of what im saying and no, normal debating is nothing like debating saikou on a touhou revision thread here.
- 6,559
- 1,260
- Thread starter
- #472
- 2,616
- 165
@Read
I have an idea of what you're talking about though. You're talking about the google plus group right?
Well true on that debating. He can say the same for you. It's equal effect. Either way this topic is frustrating because of all of our stubborness here
@Eons
Equating stats for a game to a genocidal event just because of how salty or stubborn you are is incredibly stupid.
I have an idea of what you're talking about though. You're talking about the google plus group right?
Well true on that debating. He can say the same for you. It's equal effect. Either way this topic is frustrating because of all of our stubborness here
@Eons
Equating stats for a game to a genocidal event just because of how salty or stubborn you are is incredibly stupid.
- 6,559
- 1,260
- Thread starter
- #475
This is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever wtinessed, and this is coming from somewhone who used to regular on 4chan.
- 2,616
- 165
In general the basis of it is dumb with how this is supposed to be regular discussion and how people are trying to avoid what I'm asking and I'm trying to avoid responding here. But when people backtalk others just cause, oof, can't help it
I support fair debates. Not debates that both sides passively aggressive the other.
I support fair debates. Not debates that both sides passively aggressive the other.
- 2,730
- 831
@ciruno Except I'm not blaming saikou entirely. While saikou can get a lot of stuff wrong and sometimes a little hard to get on board with, one of the main frustrations comes from the fact that everyone will hop on his side, sometimes even the literal minute he responds no matter how good or bad his arguments are. That is a problem that can generally happen with many things in this wiki.
Google plus group is one of the main ones. And many people I find in YouTube comments talk negatively about vs battles and most fans who debate touhou.
I think the same about debates. Unfortunately vs debating tends to get like that almost all the time. I personally don't take fiction all that seriously to begin with. At least not anymore.
Google plus group is one of the main ones. And many people I find in YouTube comments talk negatively about vs battles and most fans who debate touhou.
I think the same about debates. Unfortunately vs debating tends to get like that almost all the time. I personally don't take fiction all that seriously to begin with. At least not anymore.
