• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Top 5 Best Written Characters for Every Tier

True but at least a character needs some depth to be well written. Like I can understand if two insanely deep characters were in contention. But no disrespect, someone like Zuko and Deku are in totally different leagues depth wise. Or even if it's a simplistic character it really depends on the plot but more quality writing tends to be better overall.
 
We are perfectly capable of being civilized in a thread. Though I don't doubt something can start because of this, I also know well enough that as long as an effort to be so is made, we can keep things safe and civil.

Don't insult people. Don't say "x character is trash" even if you truly believe it to be so. Don't take up a smug tone.

It's not hard.
 
Agree with most choices, especially Askeladd, Edward, Raiden (prolly best one), Naked, Armstrong (not really deep but every second he was on screen was flawless) and Geralt but I think reasoning is needed here to get them added
 
Cole MacGrath for a spot on 7B or High 7A

All Credit goes to PTSOXMonkey for typing this up.

"Anywho, just wanted to discuss the strange yet interesting development of Cole's character throughout inFAMOUS and inFAMOUS 2, focusing more on the former.

Cole is, for all intents and purposes, a normal guy who one day got superpowers. He isn't an alien from a far off planet. He isn't "The Chosen One" (before you bring up Kessler, I'd like to point out that, as revealed through Dead Drops, Kessler had prepared other subjects to test on should Cole die in the Ray Sphere's activation. Hell, he's partly only here because of luck). His parents weren't secret agents who fought bad guys. He's just your average joe.

In some cases, he could almost be considered a "loser." College dropout, working as a bike courier, which would've become a job dominated by machines, therefore leaving him jobless, his only apparent friend is a clumsy, yet lovable, Elvis impersonator, family life is a mess, always ran from his problems. Not what you would consider a model citizen.

What I like the most about Cole was his realistic response to the events in the first game. He was freaking pissed. Think about, his home city had been blown up. Someone he knew died, which caused his girlfriend to become depressed. He was framed for said explosion, which caused his entire city and everyone he knew to turn on him. His girlfriend left him. Yeah, this guy's got a bad case of Parker Luck.

From this point on, Cole's main focus isn't "Oh man, my city's in ruins and it's partially my fault. I gotta make this right." No, instead it's "Screw this place and screw these people. I gotta get me and my loved ones outta here." For a majority of the game, this was his sole purpose. For the most of the game Cole only did heroic things because Moya said it would help him out in his search for the Ray Sphere, which would allow him to go to Moya and get out of the city and clear his name.

For the majority of the first game, Cole MacGrath was a reluctant superhero. He wasn't doing any of these things because it was his "duty," he was doing it so that Moya would get him out of the city. Numerous times throughout the game Cole states that he wasn't doing any of these heroic acts so that people would like him, he was doing them because Moya told him to. This is made even more apparent during that one mission where Cole had to stop the Dustmen from launching their boats to get out of the Quarantine. When Miya tells him to destroy the ships and release the hostages on board, Cole, regardless of karmic status, says "I don't want any of these people's blood on my hands either Moya, but I don't see what any of this has to do with our deal." Cole MacGrath, Champion of Empire City, just said that he would've let these people die of it meant he could complete his mission faster.

Now, some of you may be thinking that I'm trying to paint Cole as a bad guy. Let me stop you right there. This is a look at Cole's character PROGRESSION. We're looking at how he came to be the hero we all know today. Also, remember that Cole is just a NORMAL GUY. Sure, he shoot lightning out of his hands, summon lightning bolts from the sky, survive massive explosions and fight giant monsters, but underneath all that lightning is a human being. 2 weeks ago he was just a guy delivering packages, and now he's being framed for one of the biggest tragedies in the world and now has to fight his way out of city filled with crazy people with superpowers that want to kill him. If you were one day just tossed into a world of psychos and superpowers, would you be so gung ho about throwing yourself into harms way?

Another driving factor for Cole's heroic actions is Trish. Several missions throughout the game occur because Trish asks Vole to do something for her. Cole, feeling guilty for accidentally killing her sister and also wanting to get back together with her. Cole's love for Trish is what pushes him to be heroic. He wants to impress her, and show her that he's not the bad guy. He even goes so far as to fight off hordes of Reapers and Dustmen just to protect her and her medical supplies. You could almost say this is a pretty selfish thing to do.

So I bet you're wondering where I'm going with this, because so far all I've done is make Cole look like a selfish prick. Well, in my mind, there are 4 events that push Cole into being a full on hero.

The first event Alden breaking out of prison. At this point, Cole realizes that things are getting serious, and that he can't afford to screw around with Zeke anymore. It is also one of the fuse times in game where he shows concern for his city, stating that he won't be able to save everyone when things start heating up, and he is obviously displeased by this.

The second is Trish's death. As cliche and predictable as it is, a death of a loved one is what pushed Cole to become a true superhero. But the reason isn't what you think. Cole didn't set out to "make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else," he went out to kill Kessler out of revenge. In his eyes, Kessler and the First Sons are the ones responsible for all the crap he's been through the past month, so he launches and all out war against them. While taking down a terriers organization that was holding the city hostage, he also manages to help the people of his city even more by restoring the power.

The third event is his final confrontation with Kessler. Just before he goes to fight Kessler once and for all and right after he destroyed the Ray Sphere, Cole has a moment of clarity, an epiphany almost. He comes to realize that the world didn't revolve around him. It may have felt like it did, but in reality this whole situation was bigger than him. He realized that it wasn't about what he wanted or needed, it was about keeping the people of Empire City safe. After he kills Kessler and learns the big truth, he understands that while his personal desires don't matter, he DOES play a big role in the fate of the world. He promises that when the Beast comes, he WILL be ready to face it.

The fourth event is his face off with David Warner. During his final battle with the security guard turned purple electricity monster, he has yet another epiphany. He realizes that this IS happening. He can't run away from this problem. Not anymore. He's in too deep. After defeating David once and for all, he starts to make good on his promise on stopping the Beast...

...Cue Beast kicking his ass and destroying his city. Now this is where things get tricky for our "Hero" Cole MacGrath. inFAMOUS 2 always felt like a moral gray area to me. The reason being is that being Evil in the second game is sort of justifiable. You're not going to New Marais to save the town from the corrupt Militia. You're going there to get more power so that you can defeat the Beast. You're city has been destroyed, and all the people who were counting on you are now dead Beaton weren't strong enough, and the Beast was destroying more and more cities.

So you can sort of say that all of the terrible things you do are justifiable because you're doing them for the greater good. Even the Evil Ending is justifiable to an extent, because the Plague was spreading at an alarming rate and no one knew for sure whether or not the RFI was actually going to work. Sure, you're killing a ton of people, but at the same time you are saving a certain amount of people as well as stopping the Plague. It can't be considered completely evil.

Even Good Cole's inFAMOUS 2 ending can't be considered truly good, because even bough you've saved millions of people from the Beast and from the Plague, you've also basically committed genocide. All Conduits, activated or not, have been killed. This includes men, women and children. Or, so we thought until Second Son came around. Point is, it's a pretty grim ending.

I'm not saying Cole MacGrath is one of the most interesting and revolutionary characters ever written, but I think it can certainly be agreed that he was a breathe of fresh air after years of seeing the same "hero" template being used. He's not an anti-hero, but he certainly has qualities that put his status as a "true hero" into question. But that's what makes him so interesting.

It's the realism of his character. He's not the "For Truth and Justice!" tights wearing, one-liner shouting hero. Hey not the "I'm gonna make sure no one else has to relive my dark past" hero. He's just a normal guy trying to survive in a world that's been turned upside down. It's all of his imperfections and reluctance to become a hero that make him so much more relatable and likeable. He really acts like a normal guy who one day got superpowers.

I also want to say that this puts the Karma System into a new perspective. People complained that it was too basic and black and white, but when put into comparison with Cole's actions and dialogue, the lines between good and evil start to blur. Can we really call Cole a hero when, for the majority of the first game, he was only doing the superhero gig out of obligation to Moya and Trish? Can we call Beast Cole evil when his only goal was to cure the Plague?

Well, that's all I got. Tell me what you think!" PTSOXMonkey
 
I'm definitely going to throw Bill Cipher's top hat into this metaphorical ring.

He doesn't have great motivations. He's not deep or goes through a ton of character development. In fact, he's as static as he comes. He's well written because of the sheer presence he comes across, and that's both due to his character and the entirety of the show. The entirety of Gravity Falls has to do with a big mystery. Who's behind the journals, what's with all these monsters, etc. Some way or another, it can all be tied back to Bill. And when he shows, up, he shows up. Alex Hirsch managed to make a character that's supposed to be for a kids show as charismatic as he is terrifying. The whole point of his character is that he does things for no rhyme or reason. It's all for fun, whether it's reshuffling every orifice on your face or eating the planet, it's all for fun. It's chaotic evil, but it's not in the way that it's just a rampaging monster, but a perceptibly omnipotent and omniscient demon who does this for ***** and giggles. That's what chaos is and that's what he embodies. He doesn't hold grudges and he's jovial towards his enemies and loves to feel pain. Because doing the opposite would be what a sane person does. But despite being insane, he's still smart. The deals he makes, remember he's not the main antagonist for the majority of the show. He's a supporting character until the second half of season 2, but it's so true to making a deal with the devil. We know how much of a threat he is ever since his inception, and the foreshadowing done with every aspect of his character, with all the easter eggs and cryptograms and whatnot. Disney managed to craft a character that's smart, charming, and scary, completely willing to kill children on an American children's show. And I also gotta give props to them for heavily foreshadowing Bill through a goddamn computer game on the Disney website.

There's several people who can go into greater detail than I can.
 
I'll most likely make a comment on Geralt tomorrow and why he should be in 9-A because IMO he's a great written character
 
Just think about why they're unique. Personality, their philosophy. For example, Naruto is the embodiment of a typical shounen protagonist obviously with his own quirks but conforms strongly to it. Also think about their affect on the narrative and affect on other characters. Like Meruem's affect on his Royal Guards. Think about how well they fit in a narrative, their character arc (how they change throughout a narrative) and why the character is special to you.
 
@Emp

But first, I would like to say how are we supposed to rank characters and how good they are when their are many character types and entirely subjective opinions on writing?

How do we compare Gintoki to Cole and Meruem (Who isn't even a protagonist unlike the other two)
 
I'd also like to add Younger Toguro on here.

Aight, so imagine this. You're a young adult and you're the head of a dojo alongside your older (smaller) brother and your girlfriend. You have everything you'd want. The respect of your students and loving relationships. But then some demon comes in and massacres all of your students. In your anger, you enter a demonic tournament with you, your lover, and your brother. Whoever wins the tournament gets a wish. Fighting tooth and nail to reach the top, you not only get there, but your final opponent is the demon who killed your students. So you kill him. And you win. But being surrounded by death so much makes you afraid of it. So you wish to become the most powerful (....ha) demon possible, becoming the exact thing you wanted to kill. Your brother takes the offer as well, but your girlfriend, disgusted by your wish, only wishes to be taken back to the human world.

This is Toguro's backstory. There's so much that goes further on his character. Because by the time of the main story, his lover, Genkai, has become very old. Which means at least 50 years have passed. And that gives a man a lot of time to think on his actions. He's done innumerable crimes and killings since he became a demon. And he's not proud of it. We see this when he's told to kill this one mindless monster. Even though it's mindless, he graces it with...I think it was 30% of his power and obliterates it. And he solemnly says that no amount of money is worth killing as brutally as he did to that beast. Even as a demon, he's honorable. His brother, however, has become completely sadistic. He takes an interest in Yusuke, who's Genkai's protege. After faking defeat in their first bout, he confronts Yusuke and has him enter with his team the same tournament (the Dark Tournament) that started his descent so long ago. Throughout the arc, Toguro shows his strength, but he also shows his honor. When one group keeps on trying to cheat out Yusuke's team from his victory, Toguro straight up murders the dude for cheating, hating how he played unfair. The dude doesn't even drink alcohol, instead opting for orange juice on the rocks. And when the arc is reaching the climax, to make you think Toguro is pure evil, he kills Genkai, his old girlfriend, but not before she passes her power onto Yusuke. Older Toguro taunts Yusuke and his friends for this when he's in the finals, which really triggers Younger Toguro. Furthermore, in the final match, his older brother faked his death in the previous match so the two Toguro brothers could double-team Yusuke. Toguro responds to this by punching his brother into pieces. He really wants his honorable match. And eventually, during the end, one Yusuke wins, Toguro thanks Yusuke as he falls dead before he hits the ground.

It turns out, as I said, 50 years as a demon gave him a lot of time to think. And he wanted to die. But he wanted to die honorably, as a warrior. After seeing Yusuke, and finding out he was Genkai's successor, he wanted to groom the boy into becoming someone better than him. If Yusuke died along the way, so be it. But if he didn't, then the boy would've honorably killed Toguro, which is what he did. Every action he took was to further that goal, and it was planned. He purposefully missed Kuwabara's vitals when Toguro made it look like he killed him, as he knew it would boost Yusuke's powers, but he didn't want to kill Kuwabara. And he also knew that the team would use their free wish to bring Genkai back to life. In the afterlife, before they do that, he has a talk with Genkai's spirit. Both of them are young and in their primes. Genkai tells him that he can get a lighter punishment due to association, but in Toguro's honor, he decides that as recompense for what he did, he deserves to go to hell, and walks right through the gates of hell. That's the last we see of him.
 
Schnee One said:
@Emp
But first, I would like to say how are we supposed to rank characters and how good they are when their are many character types and entirely subjective opinions on writing?

How do we compare Gintoki to Cole and Meruem (Who isn't even a protagonist unlike the other two)
Click to expand...
Some characters are definitely better than others and we should determine that but how well they are written with objective factors. I have my own list of factors when I judge a character. Though you could say it's just my opinion. I just compare them with the information I'm given. To have a full understanding I would need to have read or watched both materials. Other people have different ways of determining a good character. Maybe I should change the title because in the end it's mostly subjective. But then again there should still be objective methods. I use those objective methods. Or maybe it could be a vote idk, going with the flow.
 
Some characters are objectively better then others I agree there. However it's when we start going into huge detail that we fall into subjectivity

Especially different character types, can't compare Cole to Meruem they're entirely different.
 
Schnee One said:
Some characters are objectively better then others I agree there. However it's when we start going into huge detail that we fall into subjectivity
Especially different character types, can't compare Cole to Meruem they're entirely different.
Click to expand...
You can definitely compare two different character archetypes but it's very complicated. Like Meruem>Deku. It's just when they're two very good characters to compare and they're different types it gets more complex.
 
Ways to tell a good character (or to write one):

1. They're dimensional. More than one layer exists within them, and they react to different things in different ways, or different ways to the same things under different circumstances.

2. Intrigue. How well do they hold attention? A bit more subjective, but one can look to general response from a large group to cover this in a more objective sense.

3. Compelling. Their actions must hold interest, they must hold admiration or even disdain, but not for the poor quality of writing. Rather, they must inspire emotional responses for the sake of how well written they are. If a character is hated because his actions are terrible, but it is logical for him to have made those actions based on his prior established character and motives, then his character is compelling. He generates investment.

4. Believable. A good character, ideally, should be believable within the world they occupy. A random dude gaining lightning powers they didn't want and reacting to the resulting attention extremely negatively is believable. A person seeking revenge is believable if they were wronged in a sufficently scarring way, such as the death of a family member. A character hating another to the point of bloodlust because they cried next to them as a child is not this. An atheist in a world where gods blatantly exist is not this.

Things that are nice, but not needed, and should only be used sparingly:

1. Likable. Thanos (MCU) is not likable, but he is citied as a good character often.

2. Relatable. Anyone can relate to certain things, but it is not needed in order to make a good character. Most people have never had lightning powers. Most people aren't half demons.

3. Sympathetic. Thanos, again. Oryx fits here, if you add in his extended universe charactization.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Arkenis
Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurf Based on Skill
Replies
26
Views
4K
DavidTPPM
DavidTPPM
Arkenis
Top 10 New-Gen Non-Smurf Strongest
2 3
Replies
113
Views
10K
Vietthai96
Vietthai96
TWILIGHT-OP
TOP 10 WEAKEST CHARACTER FOR EVERY TIER
Replies
37
Views
6K
Spilxson2
ZeedKZ
Top 10 Highest Attack Potency for Every Tier
Replies
30
Views
4K
Jackof_noTrades068
Jackof_noTrades068
HakutoRei000
WEAKEST CHARACTER FOR EVERY TIER FIGHT EACH OTHER.
Replies
1
Views
873
HakutoRei000
HakutoRei000
Back
Top