- 7,918
- 9,157
Yeah, but how? Is it through a portal or, teleportation?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Top 15 Strongest Characters for Every Tier
- Thread starter Setsuna_tenma
- Start date
Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,801
- 1,722
Ultimate Gods Madness manipulation works on "ethereal" minds. I am not sure if we accept that madness manipulation works on AI, probably not, but should wait for more knowledgeable members.
It's hard to tell. Most likely explanation is that Nyarla touches target and ascend with it to Ultimate Void.
It takes short "finite" time from perspective of dreamers(mostly 1-A beings, that transcendent time), but narrator explains several times that it's just "illusion" (for example pointing out that dreamers crossed infinitely numbers of gates, when seemingly very short amount of time or none at all was passed on Earth).
OrangeFR
Username Only- 1,740
- 1,051
I wanna nominate characters from Plants vs Zombies for 6-B.
- 11,526
- 5,346
- Thread starter
- #2,164
pretty sure they won`t fit it, heck genshin and wuya characters can take the empty spots.
OrangeFR
Username Only- 1,740
- 1,051
Do those verses have reality warping, time/dimensional travel, type 4 immortality, acausality type 1, AD, and layered transmutation hax (or any way to deal with them)?
- 7,376
- 5,578
I don't think ripping holes in reality is reality warping, but regardless
without any other feats on what this "reality warping does" at best it's a reality warping that only works if the event is reenacted, meaning it won't be instantaneous
Also, they'll have to deal with passives for Genshin, as some exude a lot of elemental energy and actually land a hit for those to work
idk about wuwa
without any other feats on what this "reality warping does" at best it's a reality warping that only works if the event is reenacted, meaning it won't be instantaneous
Also, they'll have to deal with passives for Genshin, as some exude a lot of elemental energy and actually land a hit for those to work
idk about wuwa
OrangeFR
Username Only- 1,740
- 1,051
Fair about the RW, but what can they do to deal with the rest of the haxes?
Okay also I have some questions about how the Archon Physiology stuff works. Would/Do the BDE and Conceptual manip apply to the 6-B avatars of the Archons, or just their true forms (which don’t have profiles)? Please just tell me if the avatars have used this stuff or not before cuz I know almost nothing about Genshin. Also some of the profiles with characters that are called “Archons”, don’t have Archon Physiology on them, so what’s up with that?
Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,801
- 1,722
So does Black Fog counters this move or not? I assume that it probably does, but I am waiting for your answer(as probably most knowledgeable about the verse here in wiki)?
- 7,918
- 9,157
It doesn't have a mind at all, so probably not.
Should be fine, Black Fog had Dimensional Travel that can cross those kinds of distances, so BFR likely won't work.
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 9,203
- 5,475
I wonder if Neo Hargraves could have a spot here? I doubt he'd be able to beat the Warhammer guy at 9-B (Inb4 DaReaper comes here and starts glazing the shit out of it as always), but I don't see anything on Lee Geon and Toujou in 7-C and 7-B that stops Neo from just insta-killing them?
- 52,983
- 47,360
Tbh it's pretty easy to beat Morghur, just outrange it-- this guy's a melee fighter huh? Well, he's a beastman now.
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 9,203
- 5,475
Can you elaborate? Neo has tons of ranged options and techniques, and his absorption alone covers hundreds of meters. He can go melee, but not necessarily. Also I don't think transmutation matters, really. Dude can still come back from the dead (and his willpower is insane, and infinite potency mind stuff, and can just kill himself via a thought to come back)
- 52,983
- 47,360
Morghur's passives are 1-A. If you just refuse to get into it's aura, you don't get bodied, if you get into it's aura you're a dead man. By the way this is basically impossible to stop unless you're 1-A BS.
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 9,203
- 5,475
What's the range? also I was mostly talking about Khatep
- 52,983
- 47,360
100 metwrs. But you have to do this constantly.
Oh Khatep? The DJ Beatbox Master starts with throwing a big ass sandstorm up before slapping you silly with tier 6 magic.
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 9,203
- 5,475
His instincts could probably warn him of the danger, and the fact that his absorption and passive could wreck him from afar. Though even then it is dubious ngl.
Is that it, or is there some other shenanigans I don't know about? Because Neo can just come back no problem, and keep adapting, or his aura just wrecking him, or insta-death him from afar, etc...
- 52,983
- 47,360
Morghur is an incon machine if you can spam it out lol
Well, I just checked and... your guy doesn't have resistance to Khatep's curse as a Tomb King nor does he have immortality type 1. His ass is getting aged to dust for even being in combat with him. Repeatedly.
check Hysh, Shyish, Nehekharah, Petty Magic, and Battle Magic for Khatep's full list of spells outside of what he's canonically used in his like 20 pages of screentime. and all of his magic has 7 layers to it. Good luck.
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 9,203
- 5,475
Meh, getting aged to death isn't really a problem, as eventually he'll just gain immo type 1 (matter of fact, the reason he has type 1 immo in next key is due to something similar like that, getting constantly aged in the time stream). Dude has fought like this for like 2000 years later on, so it ain't that much of a problem. His RE/AD will just kick in.
Additionally, is his stuff like, passive? And huge range too?
And I assume Khetep resists Death Manip, since it is at the Shyish magic? Even those that applies the concept of death on something?
Honestly, it really ain't that much of a problem considering the dude can just constantly die and adapt slowly, but I'm not sure if that passes the whole incap thing quickly.
If his range isn't that high, can't Neo just nuke him from afar? Or use his darkness to absorb him (which absorbs the soul and mind)?
Also, any non 1-A and non-infinite potency mind shenanigans will not affect him, if he has any of those stuff.
Though if his range is that high and has passive, I wonder why he's that low in the list?
Additionally, is his stuff like, passive? And huge range too?
And I assume Khetep resists Death Manip, since it is at the Shyish magic? Even those that applies the concept of death on something?
Honestly, it really ain't that much of a problem considering the dude can just constantly die and adapt slowly, but I'm not sure if that passes the whole incap thing quickly.
If his range isn't that high, can't Neo just nuke him from afar? Or use his darkness to absorb him (which absorbs the soul and mind)?
Also, any non 1-A and non-infinite potency mind shenanigans will not affect him, if he has any of those stuff.
Though if his range is that high and has passive, I wonder why he's that low in the list?
- 52,983
- 47,360
Because Khatep is no Arkhan the Black and thus doesn't qualify for having 1-A bullfuckery, Khatep is 99% non-smurf. He's REALLY ******* STRONG for a non-1-A hax mage, but he's still not a smurf.
However, with changes made to smurfery, and the fact Morghur really shouldn't be here anymore because he lost his 9-B ages ago, Khatep could probably climb if I put my mind to the DJ Beatbox Master. Also because Immortality type 1 or baseline resistance to curses/age manip is common as ****.
Or Gelt says I am surpreme and adds another golden statue to his collection.
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 9,203
- 5,475
Well, Morghur should be removed then, no?
Additionally, I still don't know the range or if it is passive, really. Additionally, does he resist:
Passive Aura that crushes someone to the ground, fears them, etc..
Death manip that applies the concept of death (2-3 layers, though if he resists also 7 layers, it doesn't matter I think)
Or just absorbing him from hundreds of meters away with his darkness
Or launching projectiles from afar, or if he somehow got close to him, just touching him once to apply Necortic touch which will apply corruption, deconstruction, etc...
Also if he applies any death stuff, then it'll just benefit Neo since he gets stronger from death (he's the son of death, bruh)
Also jesus wtf is Warhammer, man. Maybe I should get into it.
Additionally, I still don't know the range or if it is passive, really. Additionally, does he resist:
Passive Aura that crushes someone to the ground, fears them, etc..
Death manip that applies the concept of death (2-3 layers, though if he resists also 7 layers, it doesn't matter I think)
Or just absorbing him from hundreds of meters away with his darkness
Or launching projectiles from afar, or if he somehow got close to him, just touching him once to apply Necortic touch which will apply corruption, deconstruction, etc...
Also if he applies any death stuff, then it'll just benefit Neo since he gets stronger from death (he's the son of death, bruh)
Also jesus wtf is Warhammer, man. Maybe I should get into it.
- 52,983
- 47,360
If Khatep kills him and he comes back, he's just sending his soul to Warhammer hell lol
Also Gelt just turns him to gold as an opening move.
Warhammer Fantasy is nice, TBH. Strip away power scaling nonsense and forgetting Endtimes for a bit, if there's something you want to know, there's probably a book on it. Why do Dwarfs and High Elves hate eachother? Have an entire trilogy of books on the matter.
Also Gotrek and Felix.
- 319
- 154
I should mention the specific form of MetalPhantomon that's 6-C is Soulmon.
- 5,015
- 2,205
Question, how did fft characters become 12 in the low 2-C list?
Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,801
- 1,722
I checked madness manipulation page. Not having brain and mind gives resistance to madness type 1 and 2(that require having brain and mind to affect). But madness type 3 targets cognition. Cognition in short, is ability to acquire, store, retrieve, transform information. Black Fog demonstrably has cognition. So it can be influenced by Nyarla madness manipulation. Does Black Fog have resistance to it?
Last edited:
- 7,918
- 9,157
Seems like it still works by affecting the mind, based on the scan.
Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,801
- 1,722
Definition of type 3 madness:
Cognition: Those who possess this type drive others insane as a side-effect of the nature of their being, with the very act of looking at or attempting to perceive them being enough to send victims into a state of madness or terror.
Seeing Dunwich horror(through telescope) was enough to bring Curtis Wheatley into unconscious state. People were going mad by just feeling it nearby(horror for most of the story was invisible). Seeing Ultimate Void was enough for Hypnos to became insane. I think it's enough evidence to assume that Nyarla madness manip targets cognition (which is part of mind, responsible for manipulation for information, including vision and perception).
- 2,754
- 2,207
- 11,526
- 5,346
- Thread starter
- #2,188
pretty sure she does not get past destiny characters.
- 2,754
- 2,207
Well, she definitely beats the example given for Ergenverse. I also think she has a shot at destiny characters due to AE and destiny characters not being really proficient with their CM1 (it's even non combat applicable on most profiles with that tier, with pretty much 1 character being able to somewhat utilise it and even then she is far behind Shion) and absence of layers for these verses
- 11,526
- 5,346
- Thread starter
- #2,190
no she does not past ergenverse, gongsun has more hax has more layers and she has bullshit absorbtion
- 2,754
- 2,207
Don't see any of that in her first key except for Absorption having a mention of bypassing several resistances to absorption. Can't see anything there that will allow her to bypass a barrier imbued with this:
Mind I remind you that Shion comes from Rimuru's verse and is more powerful than him in his first key here. And guess what? Rimuru is also known for bullshit absorption
Rakih_Elyan
He/Him- 5,490
- 3,891
Bumping this
- 7,918
- 9,157
If the cognitive madness causes you to go mentally insane, but you have no mind, then it won't do anything.
- 9,074
- 1,081
Destiny actually had layers accepted on the initial site-wide revision. More of them than Shion it seems.
Shion's AE is only temporary, no? Either way paracausal characters can interact with her since type 1 cm, information and laws fall within Destiny's ontology.
To get the spot Shion would have to beat Shuro Chi, Quria and an Ahamkara.
Shuro chi probably just wins with Obliteration, Quria can camp in Vex space and study Shion until it can simulate her and Ahamkara could probably incap her or otherwise incon her (though I still have to update that page).
- 2,754
- 2,207
There is nothing on profiles and the verse page, so idk
Kinda, but the duration was enough for her to last at least few hours and can be extended
The only thing their profiles describe is Causality and Fate, nothing about CM1 and the rest
Know that and genuinely think that while with significant effort, she can
It takes a moment to activate, which is a lot for MHS characters, plus don't see anything that would stop Shion from either redirecting it, rewriting the result it had on her body or simply teleporting out of the way
1) Slime characters have unconventional resistances to "power __ (insert name)" pretty much, plus the fact that unique skill users are one and unique in the world, meaning you cannot recreate them
2) Via SLF physiology Shion gets Dimensional Travel to catch her
Don't really see how
What I also don't see is them bypassing CM1 abilities when their own CM1 is not combat applicable
Qurbonboev
He/Him- 2,801
- 1,722
1. Cognition is one of most important mental processes. Some mental disorders target only cognition (neurocognitive disorders) and some don't target it all(anxiety disorders). It's leap of faith to assume that being with only cognition, but not other mental processes, would be resistant to all forms of mental insanity.
One of the main goal of cognition is to build "world model": dynamic mental simulation or real world that guides perception, reasoning, and action, crucial for adaptation and survival. How does Ultimate Gods madness manip works: seeing them give your information that it's completely alien to your innate "world model"(how you think world works and exists) and by breaking it(world model), impair ability of target to cognitive processes. After seeing Ultimate Void inhabitants, Hypnos though that he can escape them by never sleeping again(clear example of impaired thinking).
2. I don't think Black Fog is truly mindless. It's page starts with this rant, that is indicative of it being very angry:
"Had they not done enough? The makers had abandoned the natural selfishness of all creatures so that all their wisdom could brighten the Multiverse. They patiently instruct the weak races, gifting them with perfect living spaces, allowing different civilization to flourish. But they are all gone. All because of you. And now, you destroy the only thing they left behind."
How can mindless being experience anger? And if something can experience anger, it's safe to assume that is more than capable of being insane.
3. Would you like to make a matchup for place of strongest 5-A being? Same way you did previously for place of 3rd strongest.
- 9,074
- 1,081
There's no rule that they need to be, though they should eventually get added in a blog. Either way it did get accepted.
Well as far as stamina goes, the Destiny characters can outlast that duration. So it becomes a question of whether Shion can beat them within that time.
Their profiles state that they can directly interact with ontology. Concepts, laws and information are part of that in Destiny.
I mean the gif is from the perspective of a MHS+ character, so it really doesn't have that big of a window. Can she redirect things that don't have a vector? The visual flair might look like similar to an explosion, but anything within range just instantly gets destroyed upon it being cast. It doesn't just affect her body, so it's unlikely she'll get that chance. She could teleport yes, but she won't be able to analyze what the ability is and afaik it's not particularly in-character for her to do so. There's also no range listed for her teleportation nor do her other abilities outrange Shuro Chi, so she'd have to come back into Obliteration range to do anything.
1) Quria was able to deduce the basics of the Sword Logic, which has a similar resistance. The Vex can just simulate approximations rather than an exact replica and/or just utilize the principles behind her ability.
2) Then she'd have to deal with Quria's second key.
Not as interested in arguing Ahamkara, since their page needs to be updated, so feel free to ignore this one. Basically wish magic is really versatile and their post-mortem interdimensional range should be extradimensional range. There simply wasn't an appropriate range rating when I made the page.
- 6,067
- 3,200
She gets passively hit with 20 layers of mind, soul and body crush + power null (though the latter isn't relevant given the nature of skills)
Anyways that barrier doesn't matter (esp because that reads far more like a mechanic than actual potency), considering she won't ever get to activate it as she ceases to be the moment the fight starts
+ She would have to get back into close range with a Taken, which is likely to get her hit with the Taken Virus
- 2,754
- 2,207
1) Can you link it?
2) Afaik all statistics relevant to a VS match up should be accessible from profile or at least from the verse page
Thought you meant being unaffected, sorry. But still, interaction, while allows them to interact with her, still doesn't allow to bypass the defenses
Her attack redirection is through reality warping, so yeah
She has really good Instinctive action that allows her to pick the best decision in any situation. The range should be in hundreds of meters and Dimensional travel is Interdimensional. Tensura ranges hadn't received an update for quite some time
Well that's probably possible, although I did remember that all abilities are stored in a CM1&IM2 core and to get any specs from it you have to override its defenses
Shouldn't this be restricted then as that can basically be viewed as an amp that allows her to go beyond her statistics and is therefore invalid for a in-tier fight?
Will do so then. Honestly Tensura profiles are also missing a lot of things, so I know the situation.
Well, the very last part is still there anyways
- 52,983
- 47,360
Haha, no. They can just go into a higher key.
Regardless, trying the long game with a VEX of all things is a horrible idea. Espeically if we're talking third key, we don't **** with taking, and we don't **** with Oryx.
