Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for every tier continued

[TheUnshakableOne]

How fast are SS characters? I can see some Inchoate world can RE or absorb to due to him being able to RE even his own fate to change it but bfr seems to be something he might have a problem.
As for resistance to mid god regen death could overpower it since she claimed she could kill Inchoate World who at that point already far above Seraphs who has resistance to mid godly neg

On the wiki MFTL sextillioms to septillions

What's RE? Reactive Evolution?


You meek resistance to negation of mid godly regen??

Typing fast on vacation atm

Saint Seiya: Speed Feats Summarized

vsbattles.fandom.com

Edit: iirc Shaka and Saga and the Gods scale above 35 septillion C iirc

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

What's RE? Reactive Evolution?

You meek resistance to negation of mid godly regen??

Yes and yes. Also thanks will read calc

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Yes and yes. Also thanks will read calc

Did a slight edit to my comment. Will comment more when I have time.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Yes and yes. Also thanks will read calc

The RE, AD and Absorption seem to need to be active abilities from their descriptions. Also, the characters I listed execpt 1 has Acausality which sounds like it'll help with the RE.

Edit: Athena and poseidons passive should be able to counter those active abilities

Saga won't lead with BFR right away, but Shaka would lead with BFR and illusions. If BFR fails Shaka would then remove the 6 senses and freeze the laws of causality (law Manipulation not causality.)

Saga would lead with sense removal.

Yoma would also lead with BFR.

Edit 2: Acausality aside. First key of cronus should be problematic because it's reliant on Cronus whose sealed in Taratrus a primordial void of Nothingness that exist outside the multiverse and he can continually regenerate his Astral form (first key.)

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

The RE, AD and Absorption seem to need to be active abilities from their descriptions. Also, the characters I listed execpt 1 has Acausality which sounds like it'll help with the RE.

Edit: Athena and poseidons passive should be able to counter those active abilities

Saga won't lead with BFR right away, but Shaka would lead with BFR and illusions. If BFR fails Shaka would then remove the 6 senses and freeze the laws of causality (law Manipulation not causality.)

Saga would lead with sense removal.

Yoma would also lead with BFR.

Edit 2: Acausality aside. First key of cronus should be problematic because it's reliant on Cronus whose sealed in Taratrus a primordial void of Nothingness that exist outside the multiverse and he can continually regenerate his Astral form (first key.)

RE doesn't need to be active it is his concept and idea from where he is created from. The moment astrals created him it has been his nature to evolve. absorption is needed to be used though.
Primal beast by default have this ability to restore things that is lost in them or damaged or modified. So abilities that removes the senses will be nullified and resisted when their core adjusted to that manipulation. but Inchoate world is a step further than that that he can even grow beyond even the original primal beast and reach the level similar to Speaker's/Creator. This is his first key but the limits of his RE allowed him to grow to that level that he now exist above both causality and law and spacetime of Sky-realm. As for Non existence. Astral power or primal beast can interact with otherworldly beings and energy which is nep type 2 Further more they are higher dimensional so some hax needs to have range or in the same dimensional scale to even affect them in the first place.

Another one would be his ability to manipulate and control primal beast which includes concept and their physiology and they are 4D by default. lastly he also have immo type 8 negation so avatars or reliance to their true selves can be severed.

As for speed yeah. Ain't no way he can win against that speed.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

RE doesn't need to be active it is his concept and idea from where he is created from. The moment astrals created him it has been his nature to evolve. absorption is needed to be used though.
Primal beast by default have this ability to restore things that is lost in them or damaged or modified. So abilities that removes the senses will be nullified and resisted when their core adjusted to that manipulation. but Inchoate world is a step further than that that he can even grow beyond even the original primal beast and reach the level similar to Speaker's/Creator. This is his first key but the limits of his RE allowed him to grow to that level that he now exist above both causality and law and spacetime of Sky-realm. As for Non existence. Astral power or primal beast can interact with otherworldly beings and energy which is nep type 2 Further more they are higher dimensional so some hax needs to have range or in the same dimensional scale to even affect them in the first place.

Another one would be his ability to manipulate and control primal beast which includes concept and their physiology and they are 4D by default. lastly he also have immo type 8 negation so avatars or reliance to their true selves can be severed.

As for speed yeah. Ain't no way he can win against that speed.

I'll respond once I got a moment. It'll ne a busy day today for me

edit will have time tuesday

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

RE doesn't need to be active it is his concept and idea from where he is created from. The moment astrals created him it has been his nature to evolve. absorption is needed to be used though.
Primal beast by default have this ability to restore things that is lost in them or damaged or modified. So abilities that removes the senses will be nullified and resisted when their core adjusted to that manipulation. but Inchoate world is a step further than that that he can even grow beyond even the original primal beast and reach the level similar to Speaker's/Creator. This is his first key but the limits of his RE allowed him to grow to that level that he now exist above both causality and law and spacetime of Sky-realm. As for Non existence. Astral power or primal beast can interact with otherworldly beings and energy which is nep type 2 Further more they are higher dimensional so some hax needs to have range or in the same dimensional scale to even affect them in the first place.

Another one would be his ability to manipulate and control primal beast which includes concept and their physiology and they are 4D by default. lastly he also have immo type 8 negation so avatars or reliance to their true selves can be severed.

As for speed yeah. Ain't no way he can win against that speed.

So Absorption is needed for his RE to be active? I am sorry if im misunderstanding you...

Wait who has Non-existence on their profile lol?

What does he normally lead with?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

So Absorption is needed for his RE to be active? I am sorry if im misunderstanding you...

his absorption needs to be used and it's not passive. RE is passive and his nature so resistance that he doesn't have in this key he can gain if the enemy has it and used it against him. seeing how It is Sky's evolution it would basically evolve to resist and counter the majority of abilities that Astral energy can make which is uh quite a lot thanks to primal beast

Wait who has Non-existence on their profile lol?

Otherworldly beings so far only Beelzebub has a profile that uses Otherworldly energy/Chaos which are primordial chaos beyond nothingness of Bahamut's Destruction of nothingness. Astral Energy can interact with those but they are weak against them because Astral being the counterpart of Bahamut's nothingness can only create from Bahamut's nothingness and not the nothingness of Chaos. so its like a foil to them but they can affect them with enough potency

What does he normally lead with?

Absorption Spatial attack or that wormhole thingy. He doesn't like wasting time against enemies he wants to kill so he'd likely lead to absorption. if that didn't work he'd use some dura neg abilities like Spatial cut and Meteor from shattered space

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

his absorption needs to be used and it's not passive. RE is passive and his nature so resistance that he doesn't have in this key he can gain if the enemy has it and used it against him. seeing how It is Sky's evolution it would basically evolve to resist and counter the majority of abilities that Astral energy can make which is uh quite a lot thanks to primal beast

How does it work? Does he need to know the mechanics of how an ability works? Sight based passive? Cosmic awarenes/nigh omniscients so he already knows? or just.. instinctively adapts to the opponent?

Otherworldly beings so far only Beelzebub has a profile that uses Otherworldly energy/Chaos which are primordial chaos beyond nothingness of Bahamut's Destruction of nothingness. Astral Energy can interact with those but they are weak against them because Astral being the counterpart of Bahamut's nothingness can only create from Bahamut's nothingness and not the nothingness of Chaos. so its like a foil to them but they can affect them with enough potency

i don't think matters much for Saint Seiya they currently don't have any NEP iirc

Absorption Spatial attack or that wormhole thingy. He doesn't like wasting time against enemies he wants to kill so he'd likely lead to absorption. if that didn't work he'd use some dura neg abilities like Spatial cut and Meteor from shattered space

These require some sort of energy (Magic, MP, SP, Ki, Chakara, examples etc) or stamina to use doesn't it?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

How does it work? Does he need to know the mechanics of how an ability works? Sight based passive? Cosmic awarenes/nigh omniscients so he already knows? or just.. instinctively adapts to the opponent?

Instinctively adapts and via absorption as well as he absorbs primal beast energies and their powers/abilities to become stronger

These require some sort of energy (Magic, MP, SP, Ki, Chakara, examples etc) or stamina to use doesn't it?

They use Astral Energy. For starters, they already have infinite Stamina thanks to their concept so they definitely can spam things and most of the Inchoate World abilities in the raid are triggers that instantly activate.
I rechecked his first appearance again and the first thing he has done is Drag everyone in his dimension + using Entropy which inflicts a wormhole. and his regular attacks already shatter space by default. and he uses universe Absorption as soon as he awakens his true powers or take the fight seriously.

Well that's enough for World
But if it's Death.. the first thing she always does is Deathly Thirteen which is the ability that kills instantly. And the only person who did resist it is Captain but even then he only has limited time before it starts affecting him

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Instinctively adapts and via absorption as well as he absorbs primal beast energies and their powers/abilities to become stronger

can he instinctively adapt to passives when hes already in range of said passives which are instant affects and is the adaption instant?

They use Astral Energy. For starters, they already have infinite Stamina thanks to their concept so they definitely can spam things and most of the Inchoate World abilities in the raid are triggers that instantly activate.
I rechecked his first appearance again and the first thing he has done is Drag everyone in his dimension + using Entropy which inflicts a wormhole. and his regular attacks already shatter space by default. and he uses universe Absorption as soon as he awakens his true powers or take the fight seriously.

Can he resist soul manipulation? Been a while since i looked at his profile due to irl stuff. Someone like Gemini Saga, and Kanon would lead with BFR with "Another Dimension."

Well that's enough for World
But if it's Death.. the first thing she always does is Deathly Thirteen which is the ability that kills instantly. And the only person who did resist it is Captain but even then he only has limited time before it starts affecting him

is it conceptual death manipulation?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

is it conceptual death manipulation?

yes.

can he instinctively adapt to passives when hes already in range of said passives which are instant affects and is the adaption instant?

he can. Primal beast can grow resistance or overcome afflictions over time even while afflicted. and he's a step way above that

Can he resist soul manipulation? Been a while since i looked at his profile due to irl stuff. Someone like Gemini Saga, and Kanon would lead with BFR with "Another Dimension."

He evolved a will of his own but sentience in primal beast is just a byproduct of the algorithm. but a primal beast who has souls (Ares who is an Astral converted into primal) still has resistance to soul manipulation on a 4D scale and has a self-repair system in their core to return if their soul is destroyed or changed/manipulated.
Archangels who are the original primal beast capable of resisting corruption from Avatar who has consumed and corrupted infinite Primal Beast cores inside him. and they managed to do a full recovery despite being afflicted by Avatar's lust for destruction for 2000 years or snap out of it

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

yes.

how does it work? Does it require a type of energy to use?

he can. Primal beast can grow resistance or overcome afflictions over time even while afflicted. and he's a step way above that

The Power Draining abilities the Gods have (Poseidon, and Athena) act instantly and cause unconsciousness, and because its draining a UES power source it'll prevent abilty activations that are reliant on that energy.

It doesn't look like he resist mind manipulation such as the mind being disabled because no higher senses involved, or being able to resist being mind controlled if he does have a higher sense (higher sense should just be layer of resistance here. sorry for confusion),

Its possible i could have missed it on his profile or looked at the wrong profile too lol

almost forgot about this, he'll also be in range of being insta atomized, or overwhelmed with heat due to passives

He evolved a will of his own but sentience in primal beast is just a byproduct of the algorithm. but a primal beast who has souls (Ares who is an Astral converted into primal) still has resistance to soul manipulation on a 4D scale and has a self-repair system in their core to return if their soul is destroyed or changed/manipulated.
Archangels who are the original primal beast capable of resisting corruption from Avatar who has consumed and corrupted infinite Primal Beast cores inside him. and they managed to do a full recovery despite being afflicted by Avatar's lust for destruction for 2000 years or snap out of it

How many layers of resistance? Is that last sentence to say they have infinite layers of resistance and hax potency to soul manipulation?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

How many layers of resistance? Is that last sentence to say they have infinite layers of resistance and hax potency to soul manipulation?

Yes. While inside Avatar they are continuously being corrupted by Avatar's lust for destruction and avatar is capable of doing so to infinite amount of cores.

how does it work? Does it require a type of energy to use?

Pretty sure it doesn't. Because it uses her concept and not the Astral energy. And if it uses Astral energy. Astral Energy is like 4D that with enough potency resist certain things. Energy being drained is already common in granblue. And death and the world have resistance to it. The King and Seven Luminary knights is capable of stealing and controlling primal beasts powers as part of the powers granted by Astrals to them and it allows them to affect all primal beast within their range of influence and Nezha did say there are as many primal beast as the stars in the sky and it is not an exaggerations. Astrals own control and manipulation of that is above that. And Inchoate world evolved against that

It doesn't look like he resist mind manipulation such as the mind being disabled because no higher senses involved, or being able to resist being mind controlled if he does have a higher sense (higher sense should just be layer of resistance here. sorry for confusion),

Their consciousness is already tied to their core. To affect it you should be able to affect their core.
The current scaling chain for resistance to mind and soul hax is.
Echidna's motherly influence < King and Luminary knights < Astral <= Otherworldly Energy corruption < Archangels/Primarch

Check the primal beast physiology page that is in their P&A section.
For primal beast. Their mind/consciousness/soul/spirit/concept are tied to their core and to affect those you should be able to affect their core

almost forgot about this, he'll also be in range of being insta atomized, or overwhelmed with heat due to passives

Can those heat and atomization affect 4D being?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Pretty sure it doesn't. Because it uses her concept and not the Astral energy. And if it uses Astral energy. Astral Energy is like 4D that with enough potency resist certain things. Energy being drained is already common in granblue. And death and the world have resistance to it. The King and Seven Luminary knights is capable of stealing and controlling primal beasts powers as part of the powers granted by Astrals to them and it allows them to affect all primal beast within their range of influence and Nezha did say there are as many primal beast as the stars in the sky and it is not an exaggerations. Astrals own control and manipulation of that is above that. And Inchoate world evolved against that

Their consciousness is already tied to their core. To affect it you should be able to affect their core.
The current scaling chain for resistance to mind and soul hax is.
Echidna's motherly influence < King and Luminary knights < Astral <= Otherworldly Energy corruption < Archangels/Primarch

Check the primal beast physiology page that is in their P&A section.
For primal beast. Their mind/consciousness/soul/spirit/concept are tied to their core and to affect those you should be able to affect their core

Can those heat and atomization affect 4D being?

Heat, yes its 4D. Athena and Poseidon it would start out 4D. Non-God Characters they would have to actively get to that point.

Atomization for Athena and Poseidon is 4D also; non-god characters would take a moment to get there.

There is also passive Sense removal they will be in range of which would work as an incap. basically works by removing their 6 Senses. It works on people who have regen as well because they don't regenerate their senses back. its more like supernatural removal than a biological one. It acts more like it bypasses regen in a way that it doesn't trigger its activation rather than negating regen. Characters with broken regen, and even lower tier regens, have gotten their senses taken away and they needed medical assistance after the battle to recover their senses back which took over a week to do.

Other than that Gemini Saga would lead with BFR via Another Dimension

edit: Typed this fast i just woke up, and getting ready to get busy lol

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

There is also passive Sense removal they will be in range of which would work as an incap. basically works by removing their 6 Senses. It works on people who have regen as well because they don't regenerate their senses back. its more like supernatural removal than a biological one. It acts more like it bypasses regen in a way that it doesn't trigger its activation rather than negating regen. Characters with broken regen, and even lower tier regens, have gotten their senses taken away and they needed medical assistance after the battle to recover their senses back which took over a week to do.

regenerating senses is a feat, not something covered by regeneration. same way you can mind hax Mid godly to incap to bypass regeneartions

Heat, yes its 4D. Athena and Poseidon it would start out 4D. Non-God Characters they would have to actively get to that point.

Atomization for Athena and Poseidon is 4D also; non-god characters would take a moment to get there.

how are they 4D. did they affect enemies with Higher dimensional physiology/existence?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

regenerating senses is a feat, not something covered by regeneration. same way you can mind hax Mid godly to incap to bypass regeneartions

ive seen some people argue that sense manipulation can be negated through regeneration so i just wanted to bring it up how the power won't allow the senses to be regenerated normally.

how are they 4D. did they affect enemies with Higher dimensional physiology/existence?

Its UES Logic with the Saint Seiya power source called "Cosmo" which was brought up as an example in the UES thread. Cosmo is the source of the verses entire power including hax. This is shown in series, and even an author statement on it.

Heat increases with the level of ones Cosmo.
Stats increase with the level of ones Cosmo
Their matter destruction level improves as one increases their cosmo.
soul manipulation increases with ones cosmo level.
everything increases with ones cosmo level including hax potency, and hax resistance.

3) Names are said to be a special feature of Saint Seiya, and terms like "Cosmos", "Saint" or "Cloth" appealed to readers, didn't they?

Kurumada: Looking back, I did really well with Saint Seiya (laughs). The word Cosmos can be applied to a whole lot of things. For example, when it comes to feeling the murderous intention of an enemy or to speak of the elevation of power, in all cases it simply comes down to burning his Cosmos. Regarding the Cloths, it's because I had seen that the gods of Greek mythology were dressed in simple cloths. From that, I came up with the term "sacred tissues" (聖なる衣 - sinaru koromo ), which I then compressed into "Cloths" (聖衣).

Interviews/Taizen/Masami Kurumada — SaintSeiyaPedia

www.saintseiyapedia.com

Anyways*, Athena and Poseidon fought many other Low 2-C's whom use 4D barriers ( Low 2-C barriers; both barriers as in shields that protect locations, and also, think of the same concept of "Ki barrier" for shields that protect individuals.) So they have interacted with higher dimensional "things" and can affect "higher dimensional things." Heck there was a titan who was throwing actual universes and it goes into detail how their parallels worlds and spacetimes. weaponizing full blown universes and throwing them at enemies. The Gold Saints fought him and Athena scales above him. Edit 2: That titan doesn't have a profile on the wiki yet.

Edit: its just that Gold Saint's don't start out with 4-D powers right away just the Gods.

Edit 3: Except Saga, Kanon, and Shaka whom have 2-A BFR by default dunno if that is a 4-D Power though.

---

Anyways, Athena and Poseidon are at least 200x times baseline low 2-C with their power continuing to increase at a rapid rate.

Gold saints are 100x stronger than the mariners (whom are baseline Low 2-C) (stated in series) and the 7th Sense Bronze boys with Gold Cloths were basically getting 1-shotted by a not fully awakened poseidon eventually poseidon became so strong he was stated to be "hundreds of times stronger" and he was continuing to grow stronger. The rate was so incredible that it startled even seiya, whom already has incredibly ridicously levels of R.P.L.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Ah UES that explains it.

Currently there is nothing that proves Sky-Realm as 2-A so bfr or things that can reach that level would affect Inchaote World. There was an old video in Shadowverse which Showed Inchoate World fighting Proto-Bahamut and the dude has passive atomization via ragnarok field which also has power null and some other afflictions like curse which stops healing and regeneration.
I guess it all comes down if Inchoate can actually RE everythinf SS has. But i have big doubts he can RE resistance up to 2-A which saint seya characters caps to

 

[ImmortalDread]

This became debate instead

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Ah UES that explains it.

Currently there is nothing that proves Sky-Realm as 2-A so bfr or things that can reach that level would affect Inchaote World. There was an old video in Shadowverse which Showed Inchoate World fighting Proto-Bahamut and the dude has passive atomization via ragnarok field which also has power null and some other afflictions like curse which stops healing and regeneration.
I guess it all comes down if Inchoate can actually RE everythinf SS has. But i have big doubts he can RE resistance up to 2-A which saint seya characters caps to

im not sure how RE works with SBA, and on the wiki here.

does RE Assumes to neg everything (within the context of a character) by SBA, or does RE only Neg what it has been shown to Neg and we don't assume anything outside of that due to possible NLF territory? (Assuming same level of existence status here.)

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Would Kenshiro be viable for 5-C? he has tons techniques that ignore durability (not just with Hokuto Shinken, he has way more), as well as precog and NEP via Muso Tensei

 

[deonment]

He would prolly get 5th as Sigma would merc, and even more so the people above them

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

How does Sigma affect Muso Tensei if I may ask?

 

[DaReaperMan]

How does Sigma affect Muso Tensei if I may ask?

Murking before its used.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Murking before its used.

I mean, Kenshiro has precog (which I think it’s passive from what I’ve seen in VS threads?) so he’s gonna know he’s gonna get murked, which he would use Muso Tensei to not get hit, and if he’s in massive danger, it’s gonna kick in anyway.
Edit: Muso Tensei is automatic either way so uh.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

im not sure how RE works with SBA, and on the wiki here.

does RE Assumes to neg everything (within the context of a character) by SBA, or does RE only Neg what it has been shown to Neg and we don't assume anything outside of that due to possible NLF territory? (Assuming same level of existence status here.)

We scale base on what is shown capable by the character and within their level of existence limits. Hence i believe this guy cannot grow resistance beyond 2-B from which the level of existence caps. He hasn't really shown anything that would give a reason for his RE to reach low 1-C level since all he ever does was affecting sky-realm as a whole and not Astral Realm

 

[Noneless21]

Hey uh sorry for this

But can yall make the goddang thread already? Or ya want me to make it?

As for Kenshiro, just make the thread vs Sigma

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

We scale base on what is shown capable by the character and within their level of existence limits. Hence i believe this guy cannot grow resistance beyond 2-B from which the level of existence caps. He hasn't really shown anything that would give a reason for his RE to reach low 1-C level since all he ever does was affecting sky-realm as a whole and not Astral Realm

So a character with RE whose never been shown to (random example) Reactively evolve to overcome fate. We don't allow them in verus threads to use their RE to overcome fate Manipulation because it's not shown, right?

 

[Nicetoderp]

I mean, Kenshiro has precog (which I think it’s passive from what I’ve seen in VS threads?) so he’s gonna know he’s gonna get murked, which he would use Muso Tensei to not get hit, and if he’s in massive danger, it’s gonna kick in anyway.
Edit: Muso Tensei is automatic either way so uh.

Sigma has passive Space-Time manip that basically said you are now a statue, followed by immediately turning him into data and absorbing him.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Sigma has passive Space-Time manip that basically said you are now a statue, followed by immediately turning him into data and absorbing him.

Do you have any scans to prove that it's passive? (The profile is really lacking in terms of scans and it doesn't even say that it's passive either), If it is passive, Ken probably won't even get a chance to use Muso Tensei.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Do you have any scans to prove that it's passive? (The profile is really lacking in terms of scans and it doesn't even say that it's passive either), If it is passive, Ken probably won't even get a chance to use Muso Tensei.

In episode 46, as soon as it's awaken it start a Global Freeze, a Heavy Acceleration (massively slow down target to borderline statue level) that's far stronger than Super Heavy Acceleration (Immensely stronger than average Heavy Acceleration to the point that things that were made to combat Heavy Acceleration can no longer move in it). As can be seen here.

After that, it mark every human on earth before promptly converting them into data, absorbing them all.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

As can be seen here.

For some reason, the scan linked just says the video is unavailable and I'm unable to view it in any way (it's probably a region thing)

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Remove Yang from 1-C. He is 5-D now.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Remove Yang from 1-C. He is 5-D now.

wouldn`t his last key be 6D? It is stated to transend his previous key

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

wouldn`t his last key be 6D? It is stated to transend his previous key

Didn't make a CRT for it.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

are the guys like yama still smurf

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Ganesha for a spot in 2B and 2A over 41 levels of hax

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

are the guys like yama still smurf

I guess so since they have access to Godly laws.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

I guess so since they have access to Godly laws.

so they still have 5D hax

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Yes and 36 Transformations of the Dao isn't 4-D.