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Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for every tier continued

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YungManzi said:
Alte and everyone else in her verse are going through revisions that are gonna make their hax and resistance way crazier along with change tiers (Although not the 6-B tier, but we're getting a lot more 6-B's). Which is why I stopped even trying to argue for them against Yomoji and now Arifureta. Because there's no sense in arguing using what we know are outdated profiles given recent blanket magic resistance statements and trying to extrapolate what that means for every other magic and resistance in the verse.... is gonna be a rough...
For example, remember how Makoto has magic armor that can grant him stacked resistance to almost any kind of magic he wants? Alte's lightning pierces through that like it doesn't even exist.
There are actually characters with BFR that bypasses 5 layers of resistance and very many passives stacked on each other. Hell, there's even quotes that suggest that people in the goddess's world passively gain resistance and purification when encountering magic in general. I say all that to say... this revision is gonna be hell. First 30 chapters out of 500 Mio one-shots a fortress made up of anti-magic material which magic shouldn't work against with a darkness wave, and you see where the craziness comes in.
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Unless they end gaining many layers of law and concept manip I doubt they still could do something. Also the game of buff a verse is a game that various can play.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Unless they end gaining many layers of law and concept manip I doubt they still could do something. Also the game of buff a verse is a game that various can play.
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We'll see, there actually is law manipulation that they're probably getting resistance to; and Arifureta concept stuff doesn't seem that crazy and isn't passive. Also with the petrification argument... you used general transmutation to counter it, and if we say transmutation layers = petrification layers it's literally ridiculous how many layers that would give people like Hatsuharu and Alte. Dragon Roar<<Tree Transmutation<<<<4 petrification layers<Sword Transmutation<Makoto Petrification=<Hatsuharu<<<<<Alte. and for Hatsuharu and Alte they can petrify weapons/equipment (Which I'm 100% sure would be very bad for Arifureta characters), souls, and magic itself; Alte even being able to pierce Magic armor; which in itself has at the very least dozens of magic resistance layers. And if we try to add pre-water spirit Haruka into that scaling chain for Alte with equipment she gains a lot more resistance negation layers than even that.
Suffice to say, it's gonna be really crazy when all this is done.


In my eyes the actual argument in their favor would be the automatic time travel thing and retroactive conceptual manipulation. I don't think time magic is a thing in TGM besides Haruka's coffins, and no one has resistance to those; not even Makoto (Conclusively)
 
YungManzi said:
We'll see, there actually is law manipulation that they're probably getting resistance to; and Arifureta concept stuff doesn't seem that crazy and isn't passive. Also with the petrification argument... you used general transmutation to counter it, and if we say transmutation layers = petrification layers it's literally ridiculous how many layers that would give people like Hatsuharu and Alte. Dragon Roar<<Tree Transmutation<<<<4 petrification layers<Sword Transmutation<Makoto Petrification=<Hatsuharu<<<<<Alte. and for Hatsuharu and Alte they can petrify weapons/equipment (Which I'm 100% sure would be very bad for Arifureta characters), souls, and magic itself; Alte even being able to pierce Magic armor; which in itself has at the very least dozens of magic resistance layers. And if we try to add pre-water spirit Haruka into that scaling chain for Alte with equipment she gains a lot more resistance negation layers than even that.
Suffice to say, it's gonna be really crazy when all this is done.


In my eyes the actual argument in their favor would be the automatic time travel thing and retroactive conceptual manipulation. I don't think time magic is a thing in TGM besides Haruka's coffins, and no one has resistance to those; not even Makoto (Conclusively)
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The argument with the transmutation and petrification was that since spirit magic is ancient magic which control all the immaterial aspects of a being (including obviously mind and soul), and with it people have show to do things like transmute souls (like Tio transforming people in dragons both in body and soul) they should be able to resist another abilitites that affect/transmute their souls like soul petrification, even more so when considering evolution magic which manipulate abstract info. Their equipment also have resistances though, otherwise Ehit would have ****** Hajime equipment the moment he appeared in his Sanctuary the same he did in their first encounter.

But well, gonna drop the talk.
 
Deceived said:
Isn't higher-dimensional manipulation like, the quintessential definition of a smurf ability for a 3-D character like Kurzgesagt Narrator?
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Pretty sure we had a case like that not long ago and agreed that if the higher-dimension isn't tiering applicable (which this isn't outside the Tier 2 key) then it's not smurf.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Pretty sure we had a case like that not long ago and agreed that if the higher-dimension isn't tiering applicable (which this isn't outside the Tier 2 key) then it's not smurf.
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Yeah, we have characters like Scion, Makoto and as you mentioned earlier in this thread, Evariste, whose higher dimensional stuff isn't smurf as said dimensions do not qualify under our system.
 
Question, someone who has 4-D teleportation and can freely move between different universes... is that considered a smurf, even if 4-D BFR is ooc?
 
YungManzi said:
Question, someone who has 4-D teleportation and can freely move between different universes... is that considered a smurf, even if 4-D BFR is ooc?
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If they're a 3-D character then yes, even if it isn't in-character for them to use the ability it's still a smurf ability at the end of the day, and such, would disallow that character from being placed on this list.
 
Deceived said:
If they're a 3-D character then yes, even if it isn't in-character for them to use the ability it's still a smurf ability at the end of the day, and such, would disallow that character from being placed on this list.
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Well, there are some 5-C's, 6-B's and High 6-B's (Including the one taking the spot here) of Arifureta who can open up portals and use them to travel between different universal space-time continuums.

Can travel to different worlds, said worlds have different flows of time.
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I believe the argument that it isn't a smurf ability is that since space magic is conceptual they aren't crossing universal physical distance, so it's just interdimensional teleportation range. Bu the second link there kinda disagrees with that as "The gap between worlds" is mentioned here along with magic power requirements presumably depending on said distance.

Regardless, it is indeed a 4-D travel ability which would allow them to bring not only themselves but other people to another universal space-time continuum. So if it was labeled BFR, it would definitely be smurfy.
 
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It's normal interdimensional range though, and they absolutely never have bfr someone to another world (they have opened portals so people can cross to another world), at most they have be summoned from other worlds but that's it.
 
Universes, Arifureta follow a world tree cosmology with nine worlds, they can open a portal to one of those nine worlds, hence the interdimensional range.
 
Travel to other universes would be Low Multiversal range though? At least for that technique.
 
Huh, I guess. Might need to update a profile.
Still pretty sure we have been counting trans-universal range as smurf, though.
 
Where exactly is the distinction between traveling to another universe and traveling to a part of another universe without crossing universal distance?
 
imp (DND) should stop being used as an example, his Immortality type 4 comes from being tied to The Abyss which is a realm outside the multiverse and Demon's Law/Chaos Hax was accepted to alter the multiverse (This as a chain effect and over time, but it's still smurf)
 
Most of these abilities aren't comeaniful enough to influence the result of a battle. In the case of Imps, they mostly limit to sneak up with invisibility and stab with their target with the venomous tail. Even if immortal, a killed devil in the material plane needs to face a several years banishment in Baator.
 
Antoniofer said:
Most of these abilities aren't comeaniful enough to influence the result of a battle. In the case of Imps, they mostly limit to sneak up with invisibility and stab with their target with the venomous tail. Even if immortal, a killed devil in the material plane needs to face a several years banishment in Baator.
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Yes, i know but when I saw this I was left with the doubt, it's not like there weren't characters that didn't do the same thing in DnD lol

"Basically only characters who don't have higher-dimentional abilities or stats then their dimentional level (I.E. a 10D character can't have 11D hax, for example). Even if said stuff is pratically useless. This also includes protection from a higher dimentional being, range and resistances. Only the base stats are considered (I.E. if a character has a High 3-A technique but is only 9-A by itself, then the character will only count for 9-A and not for High 3-A)."
 
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