Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation

[DaReaperMan]

skill issue ngl

More like stat issue lol

Yes, yes it is, combat speed includes movement speed and she very much moves at comparable to Zero who moves at said speeds

Wrong! Movement speed is how fast the character can run, fly, etc, not fight! But, I'd like to see the zero feat, if that wouldn't take 5000 years to set up

she scales to her own dura

Then don't put the 9-A stuff in the AP section lol

Lmao it very much isn't, she spams that shit to no end in her fight

I'm saying it can be aim-dodged once Positron knows it's coming lol

We don't automatically give people resistance to ability just for resisting someone using an ability to defend someone else unless the thing says it explicitly, otherwise go ahead and give everyone who has ice armor of some kind resistance to ice or temp manip, but even if we did, heat is directly connected to AP, and the heat inside an 8-C laser double his own AP value sure as hell not gonna get no selled, and even if it was, taking a hundred or so of those isn't gonna be any better, cause the temperature on him is going to increase with every single attack, far beyond his capacity to resist.

Deon have you ever stuck your hand into an oven? Ya feel that heat? That's what those defensive powers would do. And considering the visual effect from the Plasma Shield is the target literally enveloped in Plasma flames I'd say it's a wee bit more then just shielding someone with it.

As for Heat=AP... that is to a certain extent. Heat is Limited durability negation, if you're higher enough in durability or heat resistance you can eat just about anything heat, if it's got good enough AP, it'll still deal damage though just not from the heat, it's from the AP. Considering Positron's heat resistance is a stupid amount above the heat part of the equation(3000 Fahrenheit vs 150 million Celsius), it ain't melting shit. It'll hit good for the AP part of the equation, but that's about it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I will say that I'm willing to just concede and take #8 cause I can't be ****** to argue the ins and outs of heat resistance until someone slaps us both lol

 

[deonment]

fair

 

[Robo432343]

i think planeswalker stomps Veldora Tempest in Low 2-C
he passively summons 2-A characters like Bolas, Ugin and Urza and a bunch of other 2-A people, has High Godly history EE and plot manip

 

[Jozaysmith?]

i think planeswalker stomps Veldora Tempest in Low 2-C
he passively summons 2-A characters like Bolas, Ugin and Urza and a bunch of other 2-A people, has High Godly history EE and plot manip

That's unfair

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

i think planeswalker stomps Veldora Tempest in Low 2-C
he passively summons 2-A characters like Bolas, Ugin and Urza and a bunch of other 2-A people, has High Godly history EE and plot manip

Passive summoning? Well that's a new one for me.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Bro aura summons people 24/7

 

[CodeCCLL]

i think planeswalker stomps Veldora Tempest in Low 2-C
he passively summons 2-A characters like Bolas, Ugin and Urza and a bunch of other 2-A people, has High Godly history EE and plot manip

I would still prefer a matchup.

 

[Robo432343]

I would still prefer a matchup.

Not a single Magic the Gathering supporter will show up

I think all the 2-A people Planeswalker summons will just sit on Veldora's face
and if Veldora somehow defeats all the 2-A people then high godly EE and plot manip will be lights out

 

[CodeCCLL]

Not a single Magic the Gathering supporter will show up

So... I have a lot of questions about why Veldora lost and why Planeswalker won, and there's no one to answer them.

If any verse supporters aren't arguing for planeswalker, does it make sense to say that Veldora only lost because she didn't resist everything the planeswalker had, especially since Veldora also had passives and planeswalker didn't resist everything Veldora had.

 

[deonment]

i think planeswalker stomps Veldora Tempest in Low 2-C
he passively summons 2-A characters like Bolas, Ugin and Urza and a bunch of other 2-A people, has High Godly history EE and plot manip

Not only does he not passively summon them, those summons do not scale to 2-A because the versions being summoned are fundamentally not the same as they are the versions of the character conjured from the aether, which would be more akin to a copy or an avatar than their full selves (also ignoring how bolas literally can't be summoned anymore after ugin locked him up in gay baby jail), so they definitely wouldn't scale to full 2-A

 

[XDragnoir]

remove golden king from High 6A he is getting upgraded back to Low 5B

Talking about L5B, this thread had Ning pretty much defeating Hajime for Speed Equal

The placements in L5B should be like this:

Spoiler

1. Wei Shi Lindon

2. Nessie

3. Characters from Ergenverse (Bai Xiaochun and Ji Mo)

4. Ji Ning (Speed Equal) / Hajime Nagumo (Speed Unequal)

5. Rei Ayanami / Adam (Evangelion)

6. QiQi

7. Characters from Bleach (Ichibē Hyōsube and Yhwach)

8. Minato Hikaru

9.

Or something pretty close to this, Qiqi and Adam simply don't look impressive.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yeah uh, I believe I linked a thread where Nessie defeated Adam (Adam couldn't even affect it), so I agree with the list Drag made.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Yeah uh, I believe I linked a thread where Nessie defeated Adam (Adam couldn't even affect it), so I agree with the list Drag made.

Did Nessie won because they can't interact with AE ?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Or something pretty close to this, Qiqi and Adam simply don't look impressive.

I don't know why they're that high.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Did Nessie won because they can't interact with AE ?

The AE is just to show that Adam can't do anything about it. Nessie has Madness type 3, soul manip, law manip, pressure, etc... all of which can defeat Adam.

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

Nominating Byleth Eisner from Fire Emblem Three Houses for the empty 10th place spot in High 6-A

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

The AE is just to show that Adam can't do anything about it. Nessie has Madness type 3, soul manip, law manip, pressure, etc... all of which can defeat Adam.

Just noticed that the only one who can interact with Nessie is Hajime.

Can Wei Shi Lindon interact with AE 1&2?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Just noticed that the only one who can interact with Nessie is Hajime.

Can Wei Shi Lindon interact with AE 1&2?

Wei Shi has type 1 concept manip that is both layered and somehow passive (no clue how)

So yes, he can.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Wei Shi has type 1 concept manip that is both layered and somehow passive (no clue how)

So yes, he can.

There is only type 3, unless I've missed it.

In Low 5-B, what stage is he?

 

[deonment]

Wei Shi has type 1 concept manip that is both layered and somehow passive (no clue how)

(It's not passive in a way that matters, read the scan)

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Wei Shi has type 1 concept manip that is both layered and somehow passive (no clue how)

So yes, he can.

There is only type 3, unless I've missed it.

In Low 5-B, what stage is he?

It is passive AOE Conceptual Void Manip type 1 Aura, he using icon of void which exists beyond reality.

Low 5-B is his post weeping dragon key.

 

[deonment]

It is passive AOE Conceptual Void Manip type 1 Aura, he using icon of void which exists beyond reality.

The scan itself disagrees with you on it affecting people in a combat-applicable way

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

speaking of High 6A craddle characters for the empty spot

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

The scan itself disagrees with you on it affecting people in a combat-applicable way

@Sonoftanavast9 literally tell you why

 

[Livinmeme]

Due to the incoming changes on metaphysicals ability work (I.E. Plot, fate, casuality, law). All of them are assumed to be "equal" now. So characters like Giorno wouldn't get ****** by plot manipulation users, for example

 

[Theglassman12]

when does it say that plot is governed by causality/law hax? DT said that's something that needs to be proven by the verse itself.

 

[Livinmeme]

when does it say that plot is governed by causality/law hax? DT said that's something that needs to be proven by the verse itself.

The problem with Plot Manipulation.

(This thread has now been moved to a Staff thread, so none staff members without permission needs to first ask a staff member to talk here) Let's get straight to the point. When we deal with plot manipulation on the profile in versus battles, their are always full of NLFs. The majority of...

vsbattles.com

You now need proofs of plot manipulation being able to affect casuality, and things. So that kinda means that casuality and Plot are in even grounds, atleast without going case by case

 

[Theglassman12]

Where does it say that causality and plot are in even grounds? It says stuff like Concept and Plots are in even grounds due to their vague nature.

 

[Livinmeme]

I think this already being a unwritten standard for long long time

Concept, plot, information, fate, causality... are equal by default, they cannot affect each other without any feats. Well there are no superiority or inferiority between them, them simply just different

Well i dont mind if this become written standard

All can theoretically emulate the other if performed at a theoretical full capacity.

A concept manipulator can theoretically manipulate the concept of plot.
A causality manipulator can make it so that him existing is the cause and plot being erased is the effect.
But a plot manipulator could create a plot involving concepts and changed causality as well.

So yeah, I still think the order of which of those is above what can change verse-by-verse and there is no real-life analogy to default to.

Plot manip is being "downgraded" because people treated it as the ability to overpower all ablities, even metaphyiscal (and casuality is a metaphyiscal ability). OP even groups with with CM, Law, etc.

Even though Plot manipulation is very similiar to casualty manipulation, fate manipulation, reality warping ect, it is treated as the most powerful hax hat can overpower anything regardless of feats and statements.

TLDR:

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

why is Giorno being brought up in a non-smurf list?

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Where does it say that causality and plot are in even grounds? It says stuff like Concept and Plots are in even grounds due to their vague nature.

Causality and plot are mentioned together in the first paragraph.

 

[Livinmeme]

why is Giorno being brought up in a non-smurf list?

Yeah I forgot Giorno had 2-C range

 

[Theglassman12]

That sounds more like a side effect of causality manipulation messing with the plot moreso than Causality hax being on par, especially when the page mentions conceptual manipulation is by default superior to something like law hax, which causality is comparable to at times but ok.

 

[Livinmeme]

That sounds more like a side effect of causality manipulation messing with the plot moreso than Causality hax being on par, especially when the page mentions conceptual manipulation is by default superior to something like law hax, which causality is comparable to at times but ok.

No it isn't. The thread was specifically made to equalize all metaphyiscal aspects in power

 

[Robo432343]

Not only does he not passively summon them, those summons do not scale to 2-A because the versions being summoned are fundamentally not the same as they are the versions of the character conjured from the aether, which would be more akin to a copy or an avatar than their full selves (also ignoring how bolas literally can't be summoned anymore after ugin locked him up in gay baby jail), so they definitely wouldn't scale to full 2-A

bro weekly told me planeswalker passively summons a bunch of 2-A's in another thread
can't trust anyone these days

 

[Theglassman12]

Weekly says a lot of things, doesn’t mean Jack shit if it’s not proven with anything.

 

[XDragnoir]

weekly

Ha.

That explains.

 

[Robo432343]

Weekly says a lot of things, doesn’t mean Jack shit if it’s not proven with anything.

it looked like weekly was correct because on TP's profile it says he has this passive summoning thing

 

[XDragnoir]

it looked like weekly was correct because on TP's profile it says he has this passive summoning thing

I really doubt passive summoning is an actual thing, automatic for sure, but passive? Constant summon of all kinds of beings? That's pretty unlikely IMO.

Just because it's in the profile doesn't mean it's right.