• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Too Many To Count: An Archie Sonic Cosmology Revision

Status
Not open for further replies.
ShakeResounding

ShakeResounding

He/Him
Messages
8,982
Reaction score
8,066

The New Blog​

It's been a while since I brushed up on my Archie knowledge, and today I've come with a cosmology blog for the Pre-Genesis section of the comic book (which currently needs staff acceptance). I've worked behind the scenes with the help of @Maverick_Zero_X and @ElixirBlue gathering scans to make it, so a big shoutout to them.

The Changes​

  • The mechanics of the cosmology is better explained. And who doesn't love a bunch of info in one place?
  • Maginaryworld becomes 5-D, as it houses an uncountable infinite amount of universes due to the sheer amount of Zones being created by even a single timeline (that is, each Zone within the infinite multiverse creates a 2-A branch due to infinite variations of every single Zone. Not only are there infinite variations, but each Zone is splitting off into new ones ad-infinitely throughout all of time due to an action, a decision, and differences in both space and time[in other words, spatio-temporal variance of an eternal universe]. Because there is stated to be endless life within the infinite universe, the am).
    • In simpler terms; Because Maginaryworld gathers the dreams of ALL Zones period, and due to the amount of Zones spawned in several co-existing ways that then branch off from there ad-infinitum, each snapshot of time is producing an infinite^infinite amount of dreams in Maginaryworld.
  • Because Maginaryworld is a 5-D structure, the Chaos Force is transcendant above that and becomes 6-D. As such, all those who currently scale to the destruction of the cosmology would be upgraded a dimensional tier.
  • From there, the R>F layer of reality known as Off Panel (which is currently 6-D due to being above the Chaos Force) becomes 7-D (1-C). Nobody scales to this except Deadline and the inhabitants of Off Panel, obviously, as Sonic's botched Chaos Control had no effect on it.

Changes To Be Discussed​

Is the Cosmic Interstate a 5-D space?​

This I'm no longer certain about, as the whole "Bigger than 2-A is Low 1-C" trend got a little more strict. Even if it turns out to strictly be a 4-D space, nothing is really impacted by that.

EDIT: Executor N0 brought up a good point. Essentially, the No Zone is a Zone that runs perpendicular through every parallel Zone. This would mean that there is an additional spatial axis, independent of the one that holds every other Zone (this is also why all inhabitants of the No Zone appear sideways in any other Zone, and why visitors need a special device to properly orient them). If it's true that the Cosmic Interstate can lead to both normal Zones and the No Zone, this means it can encapsulate 4 Spatial + 1 Temporal Dimension.

Does the Next Evolution qualify for a dimensional jump?​

The crux of this argument is the Next Evolution is treated as an equal level of transcendence above the mortal world that the Chaos Force is to the Next Evolution (such as the concept of time being irrelevant to those on the Next Evolution, with the Chaos Force being a whole level of transcendence beyond that). If this is accepted as a dimensional jump, then the Chaos Force becomes 7-D.

Let the Chaos Ensue (Outro)​

Let's keep this a nice and civil discussion, shall we? With that being said, let's talk business.

And to the staff. If you agree with the proposals, could you also agree with the blog? I'll need them since that's a standard now.

Staff Agree: 5 (Maverick Zero X, DarkDragonMedeus, LordGriffin1000, Planck69, Elizhaa)

Staff Neutral: 0

Staff Disagree:
 
Last edited:
ShakeResounding said:
This I'm no longer certain about, as the whole "Bigger than 2-A is Low 1-C" trend got a little more strict. Even it it turns out to strictly be a 4-D space, nothing is really impacted by that.
Click to expand...
I don't know about this, but being greater than an infinite number of 2-A is no longer Low 1-C.
No, the default assumption is that this is not the case. "Bigger" could mean having more 2-A structures and, as explained in greater detail previously, having more 2-A structures, or even infinitely many 2-A structures, unless uncountably infinite many, won't scale above a single 2-A structure in size. This is due to these structures actually have the same size as a baseline 2-A structure.
Click to expand...
 
Phsccarvalho said:
I don't know about this, but being greater than an infinite number of 2-A is no longer Low 1-C.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's what I was thinking. If more people and staff agree it doesn't qualify for 5-D, I'll edit the blog and just note that it's 4-D instead.
 
I would agree with 5D Maginaryworld but not for these reasons since they’re pretty iffy, there’s no evidence that there’s an uncountable amount of universes being generated in Archie, the only way I could see this being supported is if a writer or authority on that book was asked and they said so. I’m not sure about the CF transcending Maginaryworld there’s nothing supporting that, now if we had a statement that it transcends dreams, worlds or something I could see it. I definitely don’t agree with R>F transcendence off panel since there’s no evidence it’s a superior existence to any other world in Archie.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
I would agree with 5D Maginaryworld but not for these reasons since they’re pretty iffy, there’s no evidence that there’s an uncountable amount of universes being generated in Archie, the only way I could see this being supported is if a writer or authority on that book was asked and they said so.
Click to expand...
... You're telling me you want somebody to go out and ask writers of a comic questions so I can influence stats? No, this is absolutely idiotic.
I’m not sure about the CF transcending Maginaryworld there’s nothing supporting that, now if we had a statement that it transcends dreams, worlds or something I could see it.
Click to expand...
This is already accepted in the verse. If you want to change this, you're gonna have to make a CRT.
I definitely don’t agree with R>F transcendence off panel since there’s no evidence it’s a superior existence to any other world in Archie.
Click to expand...
This is already accepted and is why Deadline is currently 6-D. If you disagree, make a CRT.
 
Disagree, you made this just so that Archie Sonic doesn't get clapped by Xeno Goku.

If the reasonings qualify then I agree, but I'll wait for others to discuss.
 
ShakeResounding said:
... You're telling me you want somebody to go out and ask writers if a comic questions so I can influence stats? No, this is absolutely idiotic.

This is already accepted in the verse. If you want to change this, you're gonna have to make a CRT.

This is already accepted and is why Deadline is currently 6-D. If you disagree, make a CRT.
Click to expand...
That’s not necessarily a bad idea, if it works out then you’ll have supporting evidence for your argument but if you get the other end then at least you have insight on the subject matter.

I’m just voicing my thoughts, there’s not really any support for the CF being above Maginaryworld no statement or anything. There’s just the CF transcending spacetime which can just be 4 dimensions or 3 dimensions of space plus one dimension of time. Maginaryworld in Archie consists of extra dimensional worlds which aren’t stated to be within spacetime at all. All I’m asking for is proof that Maginaryworld is transcended by the CF.

I’ll have to see but thanks for the tip.

Until then I disagree.
 
By logic the Perpendicular Zone includes the 4th spatial axis in which parallel zones are placed. If that counts to 5D would depend if it encompasses all the other 3 spatial dimensions as well. Since beings from other zones are displaced in the vertical, I guess it doesn't and rather one of the 3 dimensions is replaced causing the difference in position.

I'm not sure how the Cosmic Interstate and Perpendicular Zone relate as it has been ages since I had to follow up on that, but if it includes everything including both the parallel zones and the Perpendicular Zone, it's in a way 5D. Not sure if it would be of significant size to matter to the tiering system.
 
Executor_N0 said:
I'm not sure how the Cosmic Interstate and Perpendicular Zone relate as it has been ages since I had to follow up on that, but if it includes everything including both the parallel zones and the Perpendicular Zone, it's in a way 5D. Not sure if it would be of significant size to matter to the tiering system.
Click to expand...
If we take the statement at face-value, the Cosmic Interstate would also lead to the Perpendicular Zone since it's stated to lead to all Zones and doesn't seem exclusive. I'm not sure if there's anything pointing to this within the comic, though
 
ShakeResounding said:
Because Maginaryworld is a 5-D structure, the Chaos Force is transcendant above that and becomes 6-D. As such, all those who currently scale to the destruction of the cosmology would be upgraded a dimensional tier.
Click to expand...
if the cosmic interstate becomes 5D, wouldn't the CF be above it also be valid for it to be 6D?
 
Probably? But I didn't add it in the summary because I was uncertain on whether this thread would enforce it as 5-D or disprove it
 
Executor's comment got me thinking, and he'd be right.

Because normal Zones and the Perpendicular Zone have two separate spatial axis that they operate on (in which the Perpendicular Zone's axis cuts through all other Zones), the Cosmic Interstate leading to the Perpendicular Zone would mean that it can encapsulate 4 spatial dimensions on top of a singular temporal one. The only issue is proving this for certain.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
I’m just voicing my thoughts, there’s not really any support for the Chaos Force being above Maginaryworld. no statement or anything.
Click to expand...
Maginaryworld is part of the Source of All, by lore scaling. Maginaryworld is created by dreams, dreams are created by life, life is created by the Source of All.

Its the Source of All that has no statements nor inference of existing on a higher plane of reality.
 
ElixirBlue said:
Maginaryworld is part of the Source of All, by lore scaling. Maginaryworld is created by dreams, dreams are created by life, life is created by the Source of All.

Its the Source of All that has no statements nor inference of existing on a higher plane of reality.
Click to expand...
No. The SoA created Archie Sonic's universes and then remaining bits of it remained when it was finished, according to Archie the SoA created everything from cosmic matter. I'm not sure if it's ever stated that Maginaryworld started out as cosmic matter from the SoA but without a direct connection I don't think we can scale SoA to Maginaryworld. I also wanted to mention that correlation between dreams and life is not equal to the SoA creating it itself, dreams are the worlds of life's thoughts and dreams can scale much higher than the life that created it so I don't think they're equals.

I just want proof that Maginaryworld exists on a lower scale than the CF and proof it has an uncountable amount of universes in it. If I get the corresponding evidence for that and I see that it all adds up then I can agree.
 
The Source of All, verbatim, is everything it creates, as described in the comic and the encyclopedia. Its where its omnipresence comes from. Source of All creates life, life creates dreams, etc.

CF > SOA, via CF's own statements of being all, and on a higher plane, while there is no statements of SOA existing on a higher plane of existence.
 
Last edited:
ElixirBlue said:
The Source of All, verbatim, is everything it creates, as described in the comic and the encyclopedia. Its where its omnipresence comes from. Source of All creates life, life creates dreams, etc.

CF > SOA, via CF's own statements of being all and there being no statements of SOA existing on a higher plane of existence.
Click to expand...
The SoA didn't create dreams so it's a false equivalence. Lets name an example, a mother creates a child, the child ends up building an Iphone 15, the mother doesn't scale to that, that is the child's work.

Now my question is how does "being all" imply superiority? The CF is part of the secrets of the universe implying it's a part of said universe by definition, the SoA created Sonic's universe/reality so logically speaking the SoA should be > CF.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
The SoA didn't create dreams so it's a false equivalence. Lets name an example, a mother creates a child, the child ends up building an Iphone 15, the mother doesn't scale to that, that is the child's work.
Click to expand...
That unknown, supposedly human/animal mother isn't stated to be 'everything' by an encyclopedia published by a comicbook company.
 
 
"Simply put, the Source of All is everything." "It was the basic building block"

We are on this topic for too long. Dreams can't be created without thought, ie, without life. Source of All created life and is everything. It was actively responding to what Sally Acorn was thinking, her thoughts, when she was in the pool.
 
ElixirBlue said:
"Simply put, the Source of All is everything." "It was the basic building block"

We are on this topic for too long. Dreams can't be created without thought, ie, without life. Source of All created life and is everything. It was actively responding to what Sally Acorn was thinking, her thoughts, when she was in the pool.
Click to expand...
Why are you putting so much emphasis on “was” it doesn’t change that the “everything” it’s referring to is the universe and nothing more in context.

That relies on the assumption that life has the same tier as the dreams because it provided the foundation for them to be made when that isn’t true. You need to prove that dreams in Archie are dependent on the SoA or scale lower than it. Responding to someone’s thoughts doesn’t scale anywhere, unless you are assuming that the character’s thoughts are exclusively a product of the SoA which would need proof because all proves is the SoA can read minds and communicate.
 
Is the Source the All a universe if it’s also a rock? Is the Source of All a leaf if it’s also the trunk of a tree?
 
ThatBusyDude said:
The universe is everything so it would also be a rock if it’s the universe.
Click to expand...
(Didn’t mention the leaf, .ie life, example) Well, no, that is wrong. The ‘Universe’ in Archie is not ‘everything’, as there is blatantly a multiverse that was stated to spawned from the Prime Zone, like Dreams from life, and time itself.

Quote: “Simply put, the Source of All is ‘everything’.”

Anyway, we are going back to the same points and clogging up discussion. The quote refers to the Source being everything but nothing supports it existing on higher plane of existence. Maginaryworld is not stated to be on a higher plane of existence, despite qualifying for 5-D.

Next Evolution and Chaos Forcé upscale them.
 
ElixirBlue said:
(Didn’t mention the leaf, .ie life, example) Well, no, that is wrong. The ‘Universe’ in Archie is not ‘everything’, as there is blatantly a multiverse that was stated to spawned from the Prime Zone, like Dreams from life, and time itself.

Quote: “Simply put, the Source of All is ‘everything’.”

Anyway, we are going back to the same points and clogging up discussion. The quote refers to the Source being everything but nothing supports it existing on higher plane of existence. Maginaryworld is not stated to be a higher plane of existence, despite qualifying for 5-D.

Next Evolution and Chaos Forcé upscale them.
Click to expand...
The encyclopedia makes it rather clear that the universe is everything, but if you’re saying that’s wrong then we might as well not use the encyclopedia as that’s full of contradictions.

The SoA was the building blocks for reality, the CF exists on a higher plane of that reality so the CF is a product of SoA directly. SoA > CF. You cannot say Maginaryworld is lower just because it’s not stated to be a higher plane when it has scans of supporting the existence of extra dimensional worlds but I assume that’s not the reason Maginaryworld is being considered for Low 1-C here is it? It has to do with there apparently being an uncountable amount of universes in it (which there is no evidence of as far as I can see).

I’m sorry but I need more evidence.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

SJG13673
Archie Sonic CRT №25973157985
Replies
13
Views
1K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
SJG13673
  • Locked
Archie Sonic & Knuckles abilities CRT
Replies
14
Views
2K
LordGriffin1000
LordGriffin1000
Brogeefrong
  • Locked
Space-Time? That's Small!..... What now? | Type 2 Beyond Dimensional Existence/1-A Pre-Genesis Archie Sonic and Post Genesis Wave Downgrade
3 4 5
Replies
197
Views
25K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
SJG13673
  • Locked
Yet another Archie Sonic abilities qrt
Replies
0
Views
517
SJG13673
SJG13673
SJG13673
  • Locked
More Archie Sonic revisions, upgraded Spindash, Magical Girl Amy, Shuffle resistances and more
Replies
16
Views
2K
Elizhaa
Elizhaa
Back
Top