Toaru High 1-B Upgrade

[Piamma]

And kamachi often uses techniques that extend its scope.

The earth, the universe, and the world were nothing but a giant balloon. And a Magic God was a potted cactus wobbling on top of the balloon. That would cause anyone to panic. Once one learned of its existence, they would be worried around the clock that the cactus would eventually topple over as it moved freely about.

earth < universe < world

If the toaru verse contains only one universe, there is no reason to use that technique.

 

[Aseka]

Yes, it blatantly refers to infinite amount of (spatial?) dimensions. Whether they're also qualitatively superior to the lower dimensions or not is up to you guys, but let's say they are, then I can agree with it.

By current standards, extra large dimensions that equals to qualitative superiority between dimensions needed Planck scale to prove it iirc. And the universe have that Planck time. It's when Aleister used Big Bang Bomb.

Truly without thinking, Kamijou Touma forgot all about his own injuries and shouted in disbelief.

“An aerial support…Big Bang Bomb!!!???”

This was only targeted at the Mimetic Predators crawling around the area. And they had the misfortune to be biologically based instead of being inorganic weapons. They too could “picture” the weapon, so it was drawn with hopeless detail in the back of their minds. There was an explosion that only they could sense.

That 10-44 seconds may have been more valuable than an eternity.

Cold rain continued to pour down on the late night parking lot. Physically, not a single leaf floating in a puddle was harmed and not a drop of water was evaporated, but hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of organism weapons were blown into the air, swept away, vaporized, and thoroughly contaminated to the last cell. This was not just on a planetary scale. This blew away the entire “world” including every last galaxy and nebula. For those chosen as a target, there was no escape. The meaning of what was “possible” was cruelly distorted. This far exceeded a neutron bomb or pure fusion bomb and added a much-too-evil attack to human history.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I am neutral

 

[FlugelAlcor]

Set of Whole Numbers blatantly refers to infinite cardinality, which is it would be a legit High 1-B if the dimensions are qualitatively superior than lower dimensions.

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

Let's wait for wait who does Toaru again? DT? to see about this

 

[PhantomØ4]

Ah, yes because DT is the guy who does To Aru.

 

[Aseka]

why wasn't this accepted before??? something must have happened
oh i found something, you asked about this to DT and this is what the reply was

The whole numbered dimensions stuff doesn't actually indicate that for every whole number a dimension exists. Just that all that exist can be cut by Curtana.

It's literally all whole numbers of dimensions.

 

[Venicht]

There is no reason to refuse, i agree

 

[Barbar01]

It makes sense, I agree.

 

[Shereen]

Following

 

[Aseka]

For those of you who are still skeptical about the qualitative superiority of the dimension:

“Come to think of it, I heard that there’s a new subsidy for research on developing teleportation powers. Apparently, dealing with 11th dimensional coordinates is hard enough that it’s pretty unpopular even with the scientists.”
“It isn’t that. The 11th dimension mostly comes up in the quantum theories related to Schrödinger. The higher ups just feel like there’s a crisis because there aren’t very many Teleportation espers. People use the term ‘esper powers’ to refer to every kind of power, but there are some abilities that show up easily and some that don’t.”

- Toaru Majutsu no Index SS2

It's stated that the eleventh dimension is related to quantum theory. This leading us to that String theory, specifically M-theory. And from this theory, it is clear that string size is that of Planck length. I think it's enough for requirements of the dimension's qualitative superiority or Large Extra Dimension.

 

[ImmortalDread]

It's literally all whole numbers of dimensions.

"all" could refer to the existing ones.

 

[Aseka]

"all" could refer to the existing ones.

That sword had no tip or blade, but it still held the ability to slice through all whole number dimensions.

This statement clearly says all of whole number.

 

[ImmortalDread]

No, the phrase "all whole number dimensions" does not necessarily imply a/an countable/uncountable infinite number of dimensions. The term "whole number dimensions" typically refers to a finite set of positive integers (and sometimes includes zero) which in our case, the existing ones in the verse.

 

[DigiAnymore]

I agree with Dread, the words all there could refer to things that already exist in Toaru, in this case how many dimensions are meant?

 

[Piamma]

3line Truncates all dimensions represented by integers.

6line All integer dimensions

This was emphasized twice when curtana first appeared, and there's no reason to deny it.

 

[ImmortalDread]

What is 6line integer dimensions?

 

[Piamma]

What is 6line integer dimensions?

In the 6th line from the right, 整数全次元 means All integer dimensions in jap.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ya but it did not really address my issue. I am aware they are referring to finite set of positive integers.

 

[Aseka]

In the 6th line from the right, 整数全次元 means All integer dimensions in jap.

Sorry but I want to ask, are you Japanese? Or are you Japanese translator?

 

[DigiAnymore]

For me 1B is enough for this thing, because it does not define if it is true to infinity if it only refers to an unclear context either

 

[Railgun]

Goku negs

easily
i agree with the op

 

[Iiliminal]

for ppl doubting it’s why I proposed at least high 1-C, likely or possibly high 1-B

 

[Piamma]

Sorry but I want to ask, are you Japanese? Or are you Japanese translator?

i'm korean and Japanese translator
I'm using Deepl because my English is not good enough.

 

[Piamma]

for ppl doubting it’s why I proposed at least high 1-C, likely or possibly high 1-B

at least 1-B, likely or possibly high 1-B
Wouldn't this be more accurate if there was no reason to deny all integer dimensions?
H1C is already the current state.

 

[DigiAnymore]

looks like we need staff to do this input

 

[Iiliminal]

at least 1-B, likely or possibly high 1-B
Wouldn't this be more accurate if there was no reason to deny all integer dimensions?
H1C is already the current state.

no

 

[DontTalkDT]

As said in the past, the statement doesn't say all integer dimensions exist. It only says Curtana cuts through all the integer dimensions that exist.
There is a difference between "To all things with a certain property something is done" and "Every possible thing with that property exists."

If I can cut through every apple that has a colour, that doesn't mean an apple of every colour exists.

The "whole numered" is a restriction to "all dimensions". Like, leave it out: " That sword had no tip or blade, but it still held the ability to slice through all dimensions. " Then you had a statement about all dimensions in general, whole numbered and not whole numbered ones. But then it becomes clear that "all dimensions" wouldn't include dimensions we have no yet confirmed to exist, despite the statement now being strictly more inclusive.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

As said in the past, the statement doesn't say all integer dimensions exist. It only says Curtana cuts through all the integer dimensions that exist.
There is a difference between "To all things with a certain property something is done" and "Every possible thing with that property exists."

If I can cut through every apple that has a colour, that doesn't mean an apple of every colour exists.

The "whole numered" is a restriction to "all dimensions". Like, leave it out: " That sword had no tip or blade, but it still held the ability to slice through all dimensions. " Then you had a statement about all dimensions in general, whole numbered and not whole numbered ones. But then it becomes clear that "all dimensions" wouldn't include dimensions we have no yet confirmed to exist, despite the statement now being strictly more inclusive.

I feel like this is majorly up to interpretation, and I can definitely see what you saying. There is no guarantee for it one way but at the same time no guarantee the other way either.

I feel like possibly is a fair rating since it truly is possible.

 

[Piamma]

As said in the past, the statement doesn't say all integer dimensions exist. It only says Curtana cuts through all the integer dimensions that exist.
There is a difference between "To all things with a certain property something is done" and "Every possible thing with that property exists."

If I can cut through every apple that has a colour, that doesn't mean an apple of every colour exists.

The "whole numered" is a restriction to "all dimensions". Like, leave it out: " That sword had no tip or blade, but it still held the ability to slice through all dimensions. " Then you had a statement about all dimensions in general, whole numbered and not whole numbered ones. But then it becomes clear that "all dimensions" wouldn't include dimensions we have no yet confirmed to exist, despite the statement now being strictly more inclusive.

There is also a mention that Curtana truncates any dimension that can be expressed as an integer.

To negate the above sentence, we need a sentence stating that toaru has only 11 dimensions.
However, we have yet to see a sentence in toaru that qualifies the number of dimensions.

1. there are only 12 dimensions of toaru.
And Curtana cuts 12 dimensions from 0 to 11.

2. toaru has as many dimensions as all the numbers represented by integers.
And Curtana cuts all these dimensions.

Both are entirely possible.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Both are entirely possible.

Exactly, this situation is made for a "Possibly" rating.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Possibly for 1-B, not high 1-B, I don't see why this would even extend to infinity, this is far stretched.

 

[ImmortalDread]

There is also a mention that Curtana truncates any dimension that can be expressed as an integer.

To negate the above sentence, we need a sentence stating that toaru has only 11 dimensions.
However, we have yet to see a sentence in toaru that qualifies the number of dimensions.

1. there are only 12 dimensions of toaru.
And Curtana cuts 12 dimensions from 0 to 11.

2. toaru has as many dimensions as all the numbers represented by integers.
And Curtana cuts all these dimensions.

Both are entirely possible.

This is literally a counter-argument for any possible high 1-B premise. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Piamma]

no

why no?

1-B: Hyperverse level​

Characters or objects that can universally affect, create and/or destroy spaces whose size corresponds from 8 to any higher finite number of levels of infinity above a standard universal model. In terms of "dimensional" size, this can be equated to 12-dimensional real coordinate spaces and up (R ^ 12 and up)

From 0 to 11 is 12, not 11.

The zero dimension from the Toaru Psp Mugino story really exists.
This original story was written by Kamachi himself.

 

[Iiliminal]

0 is 11-C, 1 is 11-B, 2 is 11-A and so on up to 11 which is high 1-C lol

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Whole numbers are finite, but the set of whole numbers is infinite. So they would be 1-B, not High 1-B.

 

[Iiliminal]

magic gods have control over every single dimension tho

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

magic gods have control over every single dimension tho

There is no such thing as the infinitieth whole number, as such there is no infinitieth dimension, so every dimension they control would still be finite in number. (Countless, but not infinite)

 

[ImmortalDread]

It is not difficult to understand that the default assumption is not necessarily infinite when referring to "whole number dimensions." Typically, this term denotes a finite collection of positive integers (and occasionally includes zero, depending on the context). In the realm of mathematics, it signifies dimensions represented by numbers like 1, 2, 3, and so forth.

Let's consider possibly conceding to a 1-B classification.

 

[PhantomØ4]

I agree that high 1-B doesn’t really make sense. It never mentions the set of whole numbers as far as I can tell.

Though, how high into 1-B would this even be? If you disagree with high 1-B, why couldn’t the statements just refer to the whole numbers of dimensions we know the verse already has?