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“Eastern martial arts are the best-known use of the lifeforce circulating through the body,”
said Anna like this was some kind of joke. It had probably only looked like she was kicking
a soccer ball. “But the Western Sephiroth also corresponds to the human body. It is
possible to focus on the channels connecting the spheres to throw a punch or a kick that
obstructs that flow of power. Hi-yah☆”
“Cough, ahh!!”
Shokuhou could not breathe. The blood vessels in her temples were throbbing, but that
was not the actual problem. She could tell that some more important and unseen
circulation had been obstructed.
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Law Manipulation from Accelerator (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Gravity Manipulation from Aureolus. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Conceptual Manipulation from Archetype Controller. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Sound manipulation from four eyed dragon or Aureolus. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Existence Erasure from Coronzon's ceremony. (Agree: Felience1, Acertainbcplayer, XDragnoir, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Darkness Manipulation from Niang-Niang shadow blades. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Information Manipulation from Uiharu or Kreutune. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Telekinesis via Qiong Qi. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Matter Absorption from Kakine (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Deconstruction from Fiamma or Etzali (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Stamina Reduction from flame dragon. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Sealing from Fiamma. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Body Puppetry from Qliphah. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Microwave Attacks from fran. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Sin manipulation from Coronzon. (Agree: Felience1, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, Neutral: XDragnoir, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Poison Manipulation
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Powernull from Kazakiri (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Biological Manipulation from Misaki or Alfar (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Life Force Destruction from Coronzon roar or Aradia who can manipulate life too. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Water Manipulation via moisture absorption of Nepthys. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Pain Manipulation from fiamma, it comes from grimoire, Stiyl has it too. Unreapaddy has Pashupata spell too. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Paralysis Inducement from misaka or Niang-Niang shadow blades. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Possession from Aiwass or Elza. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Acid Manipulation via Acid (random esper), if breathed it damages lungs. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Perception Manipulation from Loki. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
want me to explain what all of them do? i will do that when i have a bit of time.Alright so I am freed from my work loop.
I would need to see these powers in action. If you don't have it and you want me to take the powers at face value I can do that I guess.
A quote from the work is fine, since that's the judgement criteria.want me to explain what all of them do?
Added scans to a few I could gather/support.A quote from the work is fine, since that's the judgement criteria.
Microwave Attacks from Misaka (Can send powerful EM waves that mess with internal organs) (Radiation I guess?)
Biological Manipulation from Misaki (Controls the fluids in people's brains to mind control them)
Life Force Destruction from Coronzon's roar or Anna Sprengel who can disrupt the flow of lifeforce, the flame dragon burns life force
Idk what resistance this would be categorized as but Nephthys' moisture absorption that Accelerator's reflection protects him from.
Pain Manipulation from fiamma
Acid Manipulation via Acid (random esper), if breathed it damages lungs.
Reality warping from Izzard (Can cause people to explode from the inside and lose their memory)
We need to differentiate between internal effect and internal start of the ability. Inject poison and it is externally aplied. Still resisted because poison is internal effect.
She doesn't care if the bacteria starts inside or outside. It is resisted anyways.
Archetype: It can manipulate peoples brains like the example in my post above. Still the concept of yourself also is internal.Archetype Manipulation
This is more so manipulation of concepts and categories. Creating them, sending them into the world and destroying them. The controller doesn't directly manipulate the brain or mind.
Deconstruction
One has to stab someone's body with the fairy stake for its effects to take place.
Water Manipulation
Nephthys gathers all water/moisture in her area of effect, that just also includes the water inside one's body.
Lifeforce
Coronzon roars and that attack shakes the body of a person and snuffs life force inside.
Powerull
The powernull is really just a deterrent at this stage. Magicians can still use their magic if they want too. It's just the added "spell pressure" from the appearance of Kazakiri/Artificial Heaven means using magic crushes the body uniformly including skin, organs and prevents proper mana circulation.
Probability Manipulation
Hmmm, I can agree with it if you put it that way.
Perception Manipulation
I think Ransuu's version is fine.
Archetype:Archetype: It can manipulate peoples brains like the example in my post above. Still the concept of yourself also is internal.
Deconstruction. Read life force below. Where is it said that it matters when Kamachi examples says otherwise.
Water: correct. the water inside is what she resist. She doesn't power null the ability in the rest of the area. If we have a Area that destroys everyone's hearts. Then it isn't internal because that just also include the character in the area?
Lifeforce: Then Anna has her version. Why does it matter that is a roar? The effect is internal. She is inmune to internal effects. Read my examples about bacteria or curses or bugs which Kamachi specifies that it doesn't matter saying that purely scientifical stuff works too. And it starts outside but affects internals like bacteria.
Powernull: In a early stage sure, it says that if she were to really do it it won't be like that. And i don't think it is said anywhere that it affects skin. They throw up blood and recieve internal damage in the early stages.
She felt pressure. But not on some specific part of her body. She felt like her skin, her organs, and even every last one of her blood vessels was being squeezed. The source of this pressure was a certain “presence”.
So my views for thoseAdded scans to a few I could gather/support.
Attack starts on the outside and works its way inside through skin penetration, so it wouldn't countMicrowave Attacks from Misaka (Can send powerful EM waves that mess with internal organs) (Radiation I guess?)
Starts on the inside, so it would countBiological Manipulation from Misaki (Controls the fluids in people's brains to mind control them)
To listLife Force Destruction from Coronzon's roar or Anna Sprengel who can disrupt the flow of lifeforce, the flame dragon burns life force
Would steal moisture from the body, since it starts inside it would count as a resistanceIdk what resistance this would be categorized as but Nephthys' moisture absorption that Accelerator's reflection protects him from.
The crawling force moves inside of his body to inflict the pain. Since it has to attack the inside of the body first to work, I would say it counts as a resistancePain Manipulation from fiamma
She'd be immune to breathing it, but stepping in an acid puddle would still harm her in my mind.Acid Manipulation via Acid (random esper), if breathed it damages lungs.
My assumption is that she would not be immune to him connecting himself to her. But the affects of the connection she'd be immune to, since it involves affecting the target's mind.I will use the ones Churronzon helped me with so that it is all together. (Thanks btw)
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST.
This is ST:
Spiritual Tripping: A technique through which Aleister conveys his meditation to someone else by connecting his body to the target's just like a voodoo doll and links their movements, allowing him to affect their perception and enter their mind. To use it Aleister forms various gestures relating to a weapon and three specific numbers appear from his palm in succession before a weapon appears in his hands.[9] This paints a picture of the “weapon” in the target’s brain and creates a foothold for influencing them.[9][40] The weapon is illusory and only visible to the actual target/s, but it will cause them real damage while leaving anyone and anything else completely untouched. Anyone who sees the actions will be hit with exactly the destructive power they imagined it will have. Aleister's top rate skill as a magician allows him to accurately instill people with an image of texture, sheen, weight, hardness, and power of the weapon he's mimicking; so even if the target is not aware of the weapon's identity or power or even if they try to imagine something else as a counter, the true nature of the illusory weapon will pull through.[40] Since it all comes from the target’s own brain, physical distance will not cause a drop in accuracy.[68] Additionally, if someone targeted by this technique does not die through its effects, that person will essentially bear a curse saying that, from that point on, every choice they ever make will end in failure.[69]
Everyone who gets damaged by ST (sending a image to someone's mind that causes real damage only to his targets) He hit himself with it and said he is cursed to a life of failure and also this from de novels: "Now you will either die or have all possibility of success stripped from you as you live out the rest of your days in despair."
Since he uses curses and defines this as a curse too. and how it works i think it should count.
Also the attack is a very weird illusion manipulation that uses your mind since if a target does not have mind it doesn't work (that's why it should be internal). You rejected it but it is not the typical Illusion manip so maybe now you agree with that.
Reality Warping would be changing fundamental aspects about things beyond the body. This wouldn't count as a resistance in my mind.
Alright?Gravity Manipulation from Aureolus. Everything from this guy works by him believing something and that is manifested as real. so it has internal uses that should be resisted by Alice. Of course only the internal ones.
Went over it beforeReality warping from Aureolus Izzard (Can cause people to explode from the inside and lose their memory) it has other uses that you rejected.
Like with the roar, its an attack that travels and hits the person then affects them. So she wouldn't resist it in my mind.Sound manipulation from four eyed dragon or Aureolus
I'd like a scan, but if its just making someone fall asleep I'd agree it would count as an internal resistance.Sleep manipulation from Aureolus too:
- "Sleep": Makes the target fall into a deep sleep.
Like with Law Manipulation, something governing a total concept would be beyond the scope of her resistance in my mind.Conceptual Manipulation from Archetype Controller. This is complicated too.
“He was the one that used the terms Academy City, esper, and science side and tossed them inside a framework that could be called mankind’s worship of science. To go a step further, the category of the Kiharas is another example. That is why we cannot defeat this ruler. If he wanted to, he could cut us off from our surroundings using the archetype of heretical science and cause the very definition of our existence to vanish into thin air. We might manage to survive, but we would become defanged cowards. And I shouldn’t have to explain what happens to a defanged and declawed beast that’s thrown out into the wild.” (On top of that, he brought glory to the archetype of modern Western magic during the Golden period and it is still strongly influenced by him. He could always use that archetype to affect the very foundation of today’s magic side.)"
“More importantly, if the 6 or 7 billion people on the planet all become Kiharas, not even Aleister’s Archetype Controller can reach us. He has the power to divide portions of mankind and pit them against each other as he pleases,"
I think it was used to make someone think a jail room was a palace or something nice and stay there happily by manipulating his concept of jail. Can't find the quote does someone have that?
This would start outside of her and then work its way towards destroying her. Wouldn't count as a resistance in my mind.Existence Erasure from Coronzon's ceremony. Don't know if we have other example of this.
She wouldn't be immune to being shanked, but since the blade only has a paralysis affect post stabbing, I'd say she'd be immune to that.Darkness Manipulation from Niang-Niang shadow blades. It touches you it does it effects magically without damage. They pass through skin.
Like with Law Manipulation and EE, I don't see this counting as a resistanceInformation Manipulation from Uiharu or Kreutune. This is complicated too.
Uiharu: She hacks reality. Can reprogram entities.
Information Manipulation (Disconnected Kimi Shundan's energy source from Angel Dragon, viewed reality as computer data and could apparently reprogram it[8][9])
The attacks starts on the outside and after it rips it off then affects the target. Wouldn't count as a resistance in my midn.Kreutune: She is a hungry girl. She eats peoples existence even if there is no body.
- Information Eating: Perhaps as an extension of her ability to absorb information, Fräulein was capable of seeing and interacting with Yakumi Hisako after she became an information life form with no physical body. Fräulein was capable of eating Hisako's body, taking away over 30% of her existence with a single bite.[2]
This isn't really an excerpt, so I can't judge how the power works. Just at face value, since Accelerator can deflect attacks, meaning it must travel to affect something. Which wouldn't give her a resistance.Telekinesis via Qiong Qi.
- Psychokinesis: Psychokinesis is a versatile general-purpose esper power with various applications, somewhat similar to Telekinesis. The Qiong Qi can use Level 5 Psychokinesis due to boosting the power of a Level 3 Esper's corpse. This allows it to dissipate Accelerator's wind attacks and to easily make large holes in walls and ceilings. The Qiong Qi also apparently managed to kill one of DA's grunts by mutilating him and melting his flesh, though no further details were given. Additionally, the Qiong Qi can use an undescribed trick to partially get pass Accelerator's reflection, as it managed to damage the skin of Accelerator's left arm on their clash, though the Qiong Qi also suffered some damage. This trick seems to depend on the Qiong Qi's calculation ability, as when it was heavily damaged by Accelerator and tried a last ditch attack, it completely failed to harm Accelerator, who stated that the Qiong Qi wouldn't reach him with calculations that sloppy. The Qiong Qi eyes seem to glow when he uses Psychokinesis.
Like with Kreutune this travels and then breaks something down from the outside first. Wouldn't count as a resistance in my mind.Matter Absorption from Kakine. Has matter which whatever properties he wants. Is a bit complex if anything is needed let me know. He has made his matter intangible until it is inside someone via phasing. (Don't think it matters at all but some people care about that so.)
- Durability Negation, Matter Manipulation, and Absorption (Can break down targets on a macro quantum level and absorb them[11])
The piercing ability of the stake would not be resistance. But since you must first be pierced and then the attack hits, the secondary affects would be resisted in my mind.Deconstruction from Fiamma: It destroys someone from the inside and has been stated here in NT9:
“It is too late.” Othinus spoke quietly from the ground. “It has already wreaked havoc inside my body. Even if you negate the stake with your right hand, the pain will not vanish. I will not conveniently return to being a mere human.”
and it is indexed like this for a bit more contex on fiamma:
I'll default to being against it until a source is provided then.Sealing from Fiamma. Don't remember where the quote is. That is the profile. If needed tell me and i will find it.
- Sealing (Can cut down Lucifer and bind the Devil to Hell)
Answered aboveMicrowave Attacks from Misaka or fran. This is misaka example (Can send powerful EM waves that mess with internal organs) (Radiation I guess?)
From the look of it, it targets the soul or inner self. Which I think would be covered as an internal feature being manipulated and she'd resist it
If the poison works through skin contact, then no. If it works by jabbing someone with something or consuming/inhaling it, then she would resist it.Poison Manipulation: is poison. there are different types in the series. do i need to search specifics? i think this one is clearly internal.
AlrightProbability Manipulation from Aleister ST is said that it curses you to a live of failure. Since it works very similar to a curse it should be resisted because kamachi told us that curses are resisted. Here.
I have no idea what your quotes are trying to say here to be honest. If its resisting the field, then I don't think she can, since it starts externally and then nullifies.Powernull from Kazakiri. This comes from the imaginary district and is a very complicated mechanism, this should count as law manip also btw. will do my best:
She powernulls and damages internally people that use magic. this works even on items of magical nature. There it is the specifics.
Anti-Magic Aura (As a living being composed entirely of AIM Fields[1][2] and as an artificial angel,[3] her presence alone warps the laws of the world, weakening magic and hurting magic users[4][5])
There are other powernulls like the fiamma with the stake one.
See previous answerBiological Manipulation from Misaki (Controls the fluids in people's brains to mind control them) Alfar has this too. If you don't think it is internal then i will search for Alfar quotes.
See previous answerLife Force Destruction from Coronzon's roar or Anna Sprengel who can disrupt the flow of lifeforce, the flame dragon burns life force. there is a few.
See previous answerStamina Reduction from flame dragon. "It damages things with an energy drain that seemingly burns life force itself".
See previous answerWater Manipulation Nephthys' moisture absorption. Is sucks every bit of moisture in an area. it wasn't sucked from accelerator because vector manipulation and the moisture going away from him. It should include blood, brain fluids and all of those things you need to not die instantly.
See previous answerPain Manipulation from fiamma, it comes from grimoire, Stiyl has it too. Unreapaddy has Pashupata spell too.
If fiamma quote isn't internal to you, i will go dig the other scans.
See previous answerParalysis Inducement from misaka or Niang-Niang shadow blades. Misaka is a lightning user. It paralyzes your muscles with electric signals. If not will look for other example.
Possession is probably resisted as long as its nothing weirdPossession from Aiwass or Elza or Qliphah. If you need quotes tell me but i think most of them are possession and that's it. will look if not enough.
She would not be immune to the needles stabbing her. She would be immune to the secondary affects in my mind, since the stabbing is a different aspect from the body control.Body Puppetry from Qliphah.
- Poison Needles: Qliphah can release and control poison needles on strings from her fingers. The bodies of those hit by the needles are under the control of Qliphah. She can produce hundreds of millions of needles at once and control entire groups of people.[5]
To me that's an outside source inflicting damage to you. The only way to resist it would be to blank out the knowledge, which would be difficult to prove in my mind.Madness Manipulation from Qliphah. I know you rejected this but here you have how it works. I think it is internal so maybe seeing it in action changes your mind since its mind stuff.
- Dangerous Knowledge: Qlpihah's dress has the Qliphoth on it and can spread the dangerous knowledge to those that look at it. Without proper education taking in parts of this knowledge can confuse or even shatter the human mind.
See previousAcid Manipulation via Acid (random esper), if breathed it damages lungs.
Since the chemicals involve being smelled first and then working, I would think that she'd resist that. Though she would still breathe it in, just be immune to that particular affect.Perception Manipulation from Loki and Kihara Ransuu. Since Zensum only agreed with Ransuu i will put that one. If you don't think it counts will search for Loki's.
Ransuu's works with chemicals in the blood. Pretty straighforward.
“If you still don’t understand, that’s just cause you’re an idiot. It’s all chemicals in the end. They’re what increase or decrease people’s emotions. I’ve taken tiny particles with the same effects as the chemicals secreted in the brain and scatter them on mold. The tech has its base in research derived from the #5’s Five Over series.”
“If that isn’t enough, it isn’t worth explaining further. With wind, temperature change, and static electricity, it’s not too hard to control once you get used to it. Having it spread in the direction you want and ensuring a safe zone can be handled with a single program. During their sweet dreams, everyone just stands around. Do you understand now?”An illusion. It was simple enough to say, but the level of technology required to show a certain person the image you wanted them to see was unimaginable.
“It’s still not easy, though. The chemicals themselves have names like Red Fury 03 and Blue Fear 07, so anyone with a middle school level knowledge of English can tell they increase certain emotions. The real trick is combining them in the right way to give the experience you want. When you also want to affect multiple people at the same time, it starts to be something like cooking. Well, just like how what you eat affects how you smell, the substances in your blood have external effects, so it isn’t like I don’t get any kind of hint.”
From how I read it, it spreads the damage equally across all parts of the body but it still starts from the outside. The most I see is that she'd be immune to part of the affect, but not all of it. Its at best partial resistance in my mind.Explosion Manipulation and Shockwave Manipulation from Ollerus. You rejected this but i think maybe you didn't understand it. It spawns on you and damages internal organs, blood vesels and such things. When used offensively, Hliðskjálf takes the form of an invisible spell that blows the enemy backward without Ollerus making any kind of movement or sign. It does equal damage to every part of the body including internal organs. It has no identifiable source. According to Ollerus, this attack cannot be defended against, as the enemy cannot even begin to mount a defense against an attack using an unexplainable power coming from an incomprehensible place while not leaving them a chance to form a countermeasure.[5][6]
Sorry for not taking into account that you didn't have an understanding of everything. Makes sense just didn't realize, my bad. If anything else needs clarification let me know and i will happily help when available. Thanks for your time.
what do you think about this Qawsedf234?I don't understand your definition of external. Lets leave abilities for a moment. Where has Kamachi ever stated that something that is applied from the outside of physically doesn't work? A needle with poison is applied externally but what effect does it have? Internal. Do you think a poison that destroys someone brain or lungs or whatever when injected won't be resisted because she has to get stabbed by a needle? How does that have anything to do with what the ability does. How has water getting absorbed from an area has anything to do with it not being internal. Leaving blood vessels without blood and brain without its liquids is not internal damage?. We need to separate between an ability that starts outside or is applied physically and what the effect does which is the only thing Kamachi told us. I don't know where has he ever hinted to the method of applying it matters when scientific bacteria and scientific bugs has to enter somehow from the outside. I quoted what the fairy spell does. We all agree that destroying Othinus insides is internal right? Why it matters that it is a stake? She resist effects on her insides and there is no such limitations like the way the ability is applied. Destroying the lifeforce inside her is internal, we all agree right? why does it matter that it comes from a roar? She is inmune to curses. many of them come from a hit or a chant. She will resist them either way. I don't see why you are adding such limitation that i don't even know where it comes from and leads to things like poison that destroys (for example) brains not working because it comes from a needle. Or bacteria injected in her. Why would she be affected by that poison or bacteria?
Second point. Even if a ability does two effects internal and external. Then she resist the internal effects. If poison doesn't affect her at all but now is a poison-acid that burns her skin and then (insert internal poison effect like destroying her heart) works magically now on her? Why? She would resist the internal part of the ability either way. Something having some external damage does not mean the internal effects it also has now work somehow. For example a sword dipped in poison. the sword cuts her indeed. does the poison do anything? It does not work like that. What about a magic sword that when it grazes you destroys your heart or your brain. You are arguing that since it also damages her skin it works. It does not work like that. I think the sword cuts and such internal effect never takes place. You can separate effects instead of saying an ability is only one thing that will completely affect her or not. When the case i think it is that only the internal effects of that would be resisted.
The Archetype can manipulate the concept of psychology and human mind.
I hope i can understand your point better like this because i don't get it. Please tell me what you think. Thank you for your time Zensum i know this is taking long.
I mean, that's the logic I used throughout my comment. So I don't think that changes anything.what do you think about this @Qawsedf234?
If poison doesn't affect her at all but now is a poison-acid that burns her skin and then (insert internal poison effect like destroying her heart) works magically now on her? Why? She would resist the internal part of the ability either way.
If the poison works through skin contact, then no. If it works by jabbing someone with something or consuming/inhaling it, then she would resist it.
She would not be immune to the needles stabbing her. She would be immune to the secondary affects in my mind, since the stabbing is a different aspect from the body control.
Sure, but the effect in the scan says it messes with internal organs only. It's not like it has another effect but internal. The skin suffers every effect. The second part inside is what i think should be resisted.Attack starts on the outside and works its way inside through skin penetration, so it wouldn't count
First a bit more background on this. Life force in Toaru is what magicians refine inside their bodies into mana via different methods so you can only mess with that by affecting insides.The roar that moves and hits the target, wouldn't count
It gets nulled when Touma uses imagine breaker (power null) on his head.If Raildex has an astral concept of a mind, then I wouldn't count this as a resistance. If they don't and its all the brain, then I'd say it would count
It doesn't travel. It comes from the same reality warping (Ars Magna) and it also says it is instant unlike a usual sound. The word is just used so he can concentrate since that is a weakness of Aureolus By changing that mental simulation with their thoughts they can drag those changes into the real world and overwrite reality, essentially making the user able to mold and control the real world with their thoughts.[5]Like with the roar, its an attack that travels and hits the person then affects them. So she wouldn't resist it in my mind.
"Aureolus Izzard just wanted to save one girl. Behind him there was a large desk made of ebony, and on it was a girl who had been placed into a sleep."I'd like a scan, but if its just making someone fall asleep I'd agree it would count as an internal resistance.
It can indeed be used to alter such concepts but it's main use also is to change concepts in the psychology of the human mind and as seen here it was used to change her opinion on a prison to make her believe it was a luxury hotel and that she wanted to stay there.Like with Law Manipulation, something governing a total concept would be beyond the scope of her resistance in my mind.
Moisture was also is reflected and it starts inside. This one is not explained in amazing depth though so up to you.This isn't really an excerpt, so I can't judge how the power works. Just at face value, since Accelerator can deflect attacks, meaning it must travel to affect something. Which wouldn't give her a resistance.
Like with Kreutune this travels and then breaks something down from the outside first. Wouldn't count as a resistance in my mind.
Fiamma sealing at last found it 2nd image. It is a miracle that binds someone to hell. I think somewhere else itI'll default to being against it until a source is provided then.
Maybe you prefer this from Chimera, in the second image it drives you mad if you smell her scent. That should be a more straightforward example.To me that's an outside source inflicting damage to you. The only way to resist it would be to blank out the knowledge, which would be difficult to prove in my mind.
Of course only inside.From how I read it, it spreads the damage equally across all parts of the body but it still starts from the outside. The most I see is that she'd be immune to part of the affect, but not all of it. Its at best partial resistance in my mind.
Anna's punches explicitly have a secondary effect that disrupts the internal flow of life force after it affected the external so like, what makes this any different from Qliphah's needles and Fiamma's stake that have a physical medium for their hax as well?
- The roar that moves and hits the target, wouldn't count
- The punch that disrupts life force when it connects starts on the outside and then attacks, wouldn't count
- Fire starts on the outside when it burns things, wouldn't count
Its a radiation wave, so it affects everything it passes through. I guess you could argue that she'd be immune to the portion that cross her internal organs, but its an outside source that pierces her while causing the affects, so in my mind it just doesn't count.Sure, but the effect in the scan says it messes with internal organs only. It's not like it has another effect but internal. The skin suffers every effect. The second part inside is what i think should be resisted.
The soundwave still travels and then strikes you. To me that an outside force that destroys something, rather than a force that attacks the inside and goes out. So like with radiation I don't see this as counting as an internal starting strike. Its an outside wave that destroys life force, which she wouldn't resist in my view.First a bit more background on this. Life force in Toaru is what magicians refine inside their bodies into mana via different methods so you can only mess with that by affecting insides.
I would say it counts as internal then.You tell me if that is enough. We have a couple more memory manipulation, if you don't think this counts will dig for those.
If you're arguing its reality warping, then in my mind it 100% doesn't count for the same reason I don't think Law Manipulation or the other versions of Reality Warping doesn't count.So the word is used to help shape his thoughts and the effect occurs.
Sure then, it would count I guess.That's all there is. One of his uses of Ars Magna.
Concepts of a person's mind would still be beyond the scope of your insides. Its altering what you are on a fundamental/meta level. Unless you have an existing showing of her resisting this attack, its an NLF to give it to her in my mind.It can indeed be used to alter such concepts but it's main use also is to change concepts in the psychology of the human mind and as seen here it was used to change her opinion on a prison to make her believe it was a luxury hotel and that she wanted to stay there.
Moisture explicitly starts on the inside, which is what she's immune to and why she'd resist it. Its travelling towards her since there's a direction and magnitude that can be shifted, so I don't see that qualifying as a resistance.Moisture was also is reflected and it starts inside. This one is not explained in amazing depth though so up to you.
I'm not seeing anywhere in your passage where he phases Dark Matter into the devices to absorb them. Just spreads them out and eats them. If you have a source that shows that, then she'd be immune to the dark matter eating her insides in that particular manner.He can make his matter intangible so that it phases to stuff. In the lines above he inserts his matter making it intangible and then break it from the inside or absorbes the matter.
Going by both I would say she would resist the second form of sealing, since its specifically about splitting the mind from the body.Fiamma sealing at last found it 2nd image. It is a miracle that binds someone to hell. I think somewhere else it
This is the sealing from the pope who also has one:
"The sound of an explosion rang out. The thirteen-faced polygon surrounding Fiamma formed a ring to restrain him. Not to physically bind him but to sever his body from his mind and to have them spin fruitlessly within his flesh for eternity—restraints that did not wound."
Then Chimera example is fine.Maybe you prefer this from Chimera, in the second image it drives you mad if you smell her scent. That should be a more straightforward example.
I read it as the punch directly causing the disruption. If its a secondary affect like with those, then she'd resist the second portion. But how I read it was the disruption happens during the punch's impact, which is why I didn't think it would count.Anna's punches explicitly have a secondary effect that disrupts the internal flow of life force after it affected the external so like, what makes this any different from Qliphah's needles and Fiamma's stake that have a physical medium for their hax as well?
Its a radiation wave, so it affects everything it passes through. I guess you could argue that she'd be immune to the portion that cross her internal organs, but its an outside source that pierces her while causing the affects, so in my mind it just doesn't count.
Wtf? She is immune to curses, I repeat, to curses, which literally fly around the world in Toaru. You're judging the validity of her resistances based on a made up criteria that's not supported, so like, can't you just drop this for god's sake? She is resistant to any kind of ability, magical or scientific, that tries to circumvent her durability by affecting her internals, it does not matter if the ability travels or not, literally all of the examples the series gave us have to travel, she won't resist the KE aspect as we saw when bugs started to bite her, but she would resist anything they tried to infect her with.The soundwave still travels and then strikes you. To me that an outside force that destroys something, rather than a force that attacks the inside and goes out. So like with radiation I don't see this as counting as an internal starting strike. Its an outside wave that destroys life force, which she wouldn't resist in my view.
Did you read my example? If you did, can you at least explain the logic behind what you're saying? Because you're again judging stuff based on how they are delivered rather than what they affect in their targets.I read it as the punch directly causing the disruption. If its a secondary affect like with those, then she'd resist the second portion. But how I read it was the disruption happens during the punch's impact, which is why I didn't think it would count.
First of all. You are not using what i said and what XDragnoir said after (exactly the same, we have the same opinion). That criteria about a medium does not exist as pointed out again by XDragnor recently and i think you are confusing the only limitation. She is resistant to things that affect her insides. Which has nothing to do at all which things that come from the outside or the inside. There is a very big difference between those. For example curses. They come from the outside they affect her inside.I mean, that's the logic I used throughout my comment. So I don't think that changes anything.
Its a radiation wave, so it affects everything it passes through. I guess you could argue that she'd be immune to the portion that cross her internal organs, but its an outside source that pierces her while causing the affects, so in my mind it just doesn't count.
The soundwave still travels and then strikes you. To me that an outside force that destroys something, rather than a force that attacks the inside and goes out. So like with radiation I don't see this as counting as an internal starting strike. Its an outside wave that destroys life force, which she wouldn't resist in my view.
I don't understand why it matters if it is reality warping or not when it is affecting her insides.If you're arguing its reality warping, then in my mind it 100% doesn't count for the same reason I don't think Law Manipulation or the other versions of Reality Warping doesn't count.
I wouldn't call NLF to the author saying that she is inmune to things changing her insides and this can be used to alter minds that we agreed previously that minds are internal.Concepts of a person's mind would still be beyond the scope of your insides. Its altering what you are on a fundamental/meta level. Unless you have an existing showing of her resisting this attack, its an NLF to give it to her in my mind.
Does not matter. But i will drop Telekinesis one since there is not much info.Moisture explicitly starts on the inside
Absorption: The Dark Matter permeates the object as if it were flowing through it. The object gets disintegrated and is absorbed into the dark matter.I'm not seeing anywhere in your passage where he phases Dark Matter into the devices to absorb them. Just spreads them out and eats them. If you have a source that shows that, then she'd be immune to the dark matter eating her insides in that particular manner.
That does not matter. Information manipulation is internal and should be resisted.The attacks starts on the outside and after it rips it off then affects the target. Wouldn't count as a resistance in my midn.
Yes, because it's travellings towards then and then destroys the life force. It's a movement and destruction affect. I don't see it as being an internal only affect.If a character looks at me and destroys my life force it definitely would count... but because it's a shockwave then it suddenly isn't an internal attack in nature anymore?
Sure I'll just drop it. Since I also know I'll at some point say something controversial again, I'll also drop the thread since I don't know enough about the verse to really warrant me sticking around.that's not supported, so like, can't you just drop this for god's sake?
See above.I would like you to address XDragnoir and me on this topic but i will continue with the rest.
Sorry I missed it, I thought I included it but must have deleted it on accident when doing the Chimera comment. Like with the smells she'd resist the seeds affects since youd need to eat them.You did not comment about this so here they go again:
Death manipulation was rejected. Here is another different one that should count since it is a curse also. You eat something you get death manipulated.
Maybe? I'm not really sure since they're eating the outside body. Though it's seemingly considered two different types of consumption, so the life force absorption is probably fine resistance wise.this should fit pretty well that for life force:Life-force Absorption (His bugs sap life force and feast on divine flesh[15]
My interpretation of it for the same reason she wouldn't be immune to a sword stabbing her. If you disagree with it get another mod to give their view regarding it.Where does this limitation come from?
Because it's affecting a fundamental aspect that she's participating in and without an explicit feat on her end to see how that interaction would go, I don't think she'd qualify.don't understand why it matters if it is reality warping or not when it is affecting her insides
Then she could resist the power since it's Phasing and then consuming stuff.It is right there. He can make matter phase when he wants. Also It should not matter at all because it coming from the outside piercing normally and absorbing should be the same
Yes, she'd be immune to that aspect of gravity manipulation.Kakine also has Gravity manipulation: The Character had a cut wound and then a pressure from the inside makes her bleed out faster. As pressure from the outside would do the opposite.
"He identified a grinding noise. He didn’t know what had happened. Kakine hadn’t touched Yomikawa, but something invisible trampled over her. Her body twitched. The dark red on her, under pressure, started to expand a lot more quickly."
That would count, yes. Since it's targeting things inside her body and trying to alter them.Accelerator matter manipulation absolutely should work even with your limitation. I just don't want to use it since i think kakine is a better example but anyway.
He reprogramed a brain and altered her memories and he had to be very careful to not fry her brain. I can give you the quote if you want but it is straightforward.
How I'm reading it, is that it's a sword ability that let's you slice through anything by cutting into higher dimensions. I don't see her resisting this.Also i realized you didn't read this one for Space Manipulation:
I don't see it that way. Information is a fundamental concept and not an internalized feature in my mind.That does not matter. Information manipulation is internal and should be resisted.
i have to go for some hours but i will say before i go. Curses travel towards people in toaru. It's movement and destruction. Resisted. Will make an argument later but your point of view doesn't work here. It contradicts itself.Yes, because it's travellings towards then and then destroys the life force. It's a movement and destruction affect. I don't see it as being an internal only affect.
Curses travel towards people in toaru. It's movement and destruction. Resisted. This is why i mean, that limitation does not exist in this resistances. It does not have to be internal only. The internal part will be resisted even if there is an external part. What do you want me to explain so that you understand that internal does not work like that here? Do you want a quote about a curse travelling?Yes, because it's travellings towards then and then destroys the life force. It's a movement and destruction affect. I don't see it as being an internal only affect.
You are both getting frustrated (understandably so). I apologize if i made you feel bad with something, not my intention at all. I don't mind at all if you say something incorrect or you don't have knowledge of the verse. I appreciate you helping and i will provide with the information you lack. But you are defending something that does not exist in the series. Her internal resistance does not care about travel or anything else. The only condition is if it affects her internals. If you need any explanation i will do so. For example the logic you put there of "if-then or and" is another limitation that does not exist at all. They are completely unfounded and does not work with the statements we have. I will try to explain it to the best of my ability but we need to use accurate and consistent criteria and not random limitations that have never been alluded in the series.Sure I'll just drop it. Since I also know I'll at some point say something controversial again, I'll also drop the thread since I don't know enough about the verse to really warrant me sticking around.
Anyways, the punch affecting the life force can be resisted. Since the logic of it's an "if-then" clause rather than a "and" clause.
Even if it was the same effect does not make a difference but sure.Maybe? I'm not really sure since they're eating the outside body. Though it's seemingly considered two different types of consumption, so the life force absorption is probably fine resistance wise.
No problem at all.Sorry I missed it,
Ok this is good, let's see where our differences are if any. She can indeed be stabbed with a sword. She can't have a magic sword apply any effect at all inside her. So i agree with your interpretation of her being slashed with a sword. Do you agree that that sword won't do anything at all inside her? Having her head crushed doesn't stop her from thinking or anything at all.My interpretation of it for the same reason she wouldn't be immune to a sword stabbing her. If you disagree with it get another mod to give their view regarding it.
Now this i can address to. We have Aleister's curse that curses you and it affects you and makes sure that every action ends in failure. Isn't this a fundamental aspect also?Because it's affecting a fundamental aspect that she's participating in and without an explicit feat on her end to see how that interaction would go, I don't think she'd qualify.
However, she would be immune to reality warping that's specifically targeting her insides since that's targeting her rather than said fundamental aspect.
I am sorry but I am confused. So you agree with Matter absorption but not with the transmutation that affects cells? Or i am reading that wrong?Then she could resist the power since it's Phasing and then consuming stuff.
For your second point I didn't see her resisting for the same reason she wouldn't resist someone crushing her head. If it starts at her outsides and eats inwards it would bypass her resistance in my mind.
So you disagree with Kakine's matter manipulation? I am still lost regarding your opinion with kakine's stuff.That would count, yes. Since it's targeting things inside her body and trying to alter them.
So a sword that cuts any coordinates withing 20m and used to cut her inside would not be resisted? She already can affect higher dimensions. If you want the scans i will pull them out.How I'm reading it, is that it's a sword ability that let's you slice through anything by cutting into higher dimensions. I don't see her resisting this.
- GT5 Chapter 3 Part 11Tens of thousands of bugs apparently wasn’t enough for her to feel repulsed or disgusted. She had used the bat and balls before. Poison gas, curses, and other forms of internal damage never seemed to affect her. (It almost felt like trying to drown a fish in water.) But her soft skin could not deflect the macroscopic external damage of the crickets. Plus, she was wearing a skirt and short sleeves.
- GT5 Chapter 3 Part 7“That won’t work on the girl,” interrupted Alice with a sleepily clueless smile.
This time, no cricket bat or hedgehog balls emerged from below her apron. This was a formless curse, after all. But Alice was still entirely unaffected by the invisible attack.
Was she built differently from the others on the inside?
Was this like how carbon monoxide was deadly to humans but harmless to insects because their blood was different? This didn’t seem like she simply didn’t feel any pain because she was that much stronger than the average person. It was a lot more like the conditions of the attack didn’t apply to her in the first place. Kamijou even had a meaningless fantasy about someone continually giving animal carcasses to a vulture in the hopes of giving it food poisoning.
- GT7 Chapter 4 Part 7Alice Anotherbible.
Bits and pieces of her power had been seen in Academy City on December 29. There were the direct examples like the hedgehog balls and flamingo bat, there was the Executioner with unknown attack conditions, and even the Bridge Building that constructed bridges between the world’s logic and laws to distort the world as she saw fit. Seeing as she had created a reality where the dark side’s survivors all worked together to fight a powerful foe, her power had reached the point of forcibly creating impossible results.
Also, her body was immune to bacteria, bugs, curses, and all other forms of internal damage, both scientific and magical. As for external damage, she would always remain unscathed thanks to the hedgehogs and flamingo protecting her. Moreover, this didn’t come from a fear of shedding blood. She protected herself that way because if anything obstructed her actions, she might get angry and kill someone.
It was unknown if it was even possible to defeat her.
Kamijou couldn’t guess what punching her with Imagine Breaker would accomplish.
- GT6 Chapter 2 Part 6“My Cold Mistress spell is nothing like your Rule of Three magic, but that’s why you’re helpless against it, isn’t it? After all, if used right, this could make me the only Transcendent in the cabal who could fight back against Alice!!”
[...]
“Cold Mistress is a spell that replaces any and all pleasure signals with pain. The desires for food, sex, and sleep are all instructions meant to efficiently guide people toward survival and reproduction through their attempts to fulfill those animal desires. My magic turns that on its head. All pleasure is converted into pain, so I can easily kill anyone through starvation or sleep deprivation. And I’m sure you know what happens if everyone in the world stops having sex.”
- GT7 Chapter 3 Part 1This was Cold Mistress, the Bologna Succubus’s Transcendent spell. Didn’t it replace hunger, lust, sleepiness, and all other pleasure signals with pain?
And if used correctly, it was supposedly the only spell with the possibility of rivalling Alice.
- GT8 EpilogueThe man took swift action.
He destroyed her.
His arm grabbed the girl’s small face and shattered her entire head.
Something scattered before the young butler’s eyes.
Something colorful but broken.
Altogether, it should have been beautiful, but as individual pieces, it was horrifically grotesque.
[...]
There was no scream.
Alice Anotherbible did not react even as her skull was shattered. The rest of her remained upright, her small limbs dangling down.
The scattered blonde hair, the skull shards looking so much like egg shells, and the few remnants of her face still showing an incomplete picture of her adorable features.
After a short delay, the small girl finally collapsed backwards. A dark red liquid belatedly puddled on the ground.
But that was all.
- GT10 Chapter 4 Part 4Their fists collided.
Sound vanished for a brief moment.
Creating a blank.
Perhaps some vital lines had been severed inside his body.
His fist felt hot. It may have already broken.
The world seemed to tilt around him.
But he still gathered strength in his legs to keep himself from falling.
Alice’s legs were shaking too. Her shoulders were heaving as she breathed and one eye was unnaturally closed. The eyelid may have been cut.
I agree with that.At this point I would agree that Alice can resist all abilities in Toaru as long as that abilities can target internal/have internal effects in the body.
Thanks your your comment. Let's start:Damn, I disagree with pretty much every single thing that has been brought up here. The only resistance I'd agree to for her are those that have been directly stated or shown to be resisted (bacteria, bug, curses).
First off, the two quotes used to support Alice's internal damage resistance just sounds (at least to me) like Touma's thoughts on the matter being conveyed to us via the narrator, rather than the narrator's objective view of her abilities. The first quote from GT5 does not state anything definitive, it just tells us what seems to be happening. The narrator also uses multiple different words to assert uncertainty.
I have always agreed that this is not powernull or anything like that. It comes from her physiology. That does not matter for what she resist. Of course we are not told yet what that physiology is. But we are directly told indeed what it does to internal damage. That's why we are adding that and not random things like her breathing in space or underwater or other physiology stuff guessing. So since we have the statement from the narrator we should index it.If we are to take these as objective truth from an omniscient narrator, this would indicate that the nature of her resistance comes from a different physiology, rather than an ability that automatically negates all internal damage. And given that we are not told what exactly makes her different in that regard, anything other than what has been stated/shown would be an unfounded assumption.
Also worth to note that "curses" mentioned in the first quote is referring to Frillsand's curse-like attack, rather than the magical curses used by magicians.
It is as clear to me with the rest. The narrator recalls prior events from the narrators perspective. "Kamijou couldn't guess" it's when the uncertain part starts. Everything before are clear cut objective things.Obviously, if you read just the bolded part, it sounds like a clear-cut situation, but within the context that comes both directly before and after, the whole things sounds a lot less certain. The narrator is recalling prior events that showcased Alice's powers, but again, is doing so from Touma's perspective. The quote refers to Touma's assumptions regarding Alice's abilities, not a conclusive observation from the narrator.
Second, Alice resisting every and all internal abilities is directly contradicted in the story, as we are told that, if used correctly, the Bologna Succubus's Cold Mistress can affect her. The spell works by replacing pleasure signals by pain. Sounds pretty internal to me.
How is crushing her head an internal effect? And we know she walked without head and fought without a problem without head after that.Third, there are at least two anti-feats that I can think of : CRC crushing her head in GT8 and Alice being unsteady on her feet after clashing fists with Touma in GT10. Both are external attacks that caused internal damage which was not resisted, so a lot of the abilities listed in this thread have no reason to be added as resistance, even with a possibly rating.
First she wanted to be killed so she let herself be attacked with a external attack like getting her head crushed from the outside.She clearly didn't resist the internal damage from that, she literally died.
What internal damage is crushing her head with a hand? And died is a strong word for her knowing she does not need her head to think.She clearly didn't resist the internal damage from that, she literally died.
He may have powernulled something when in contact or emotional distress. Supernatural physiology can be affected by IB as has happened before. And let's say that body is not very natural. We don't know what caused her to be unsteady and there is a very good explanation on her being unsteady even without a punch delivered since she wants no harm done to Touma.If she had resisted the internal damage caused by the clash, her legs would not be shaking. Also, pain is an internal thing, so why would her injured eye be closed if she's not feeling the pain?
So we have one anti-feat for abilities that directly target the insides, and two for external attacks that deal internal damage. So yeah, count me as disagree for pretty much everything except for bacteria, bugs and curses (specifically Frillsand's one, not the magical kind, as those are completely different).
The first part doesn't change absolutely anything or invalidates absolutely anything, we literally have physiology pages around the wiki that give characters, whole groups most of the time, several resistances.her resistance comes from a different physiology, rather than an ability that automatically negates all internal damage.
The text literally adds right after that her resistances apply to both magic and science alike, this is pointless.Also worth to note that "curses" mentioned in the first quote is referring to Frillsand's curse-like attack, rather than the magical curses used by magicians.
These "anti-feats" aren't anti-feats to begin with because punches and the like were never even implied to be among her resistances given, well, they're what is counted as external damage that she has to resist with her durability:So we have one anti-feat for abilities that directly target the insides, and two for external attacks that deal internal damage. So yeah, count me as disagree for pretty much everything except for bacteria, bugs and curses (specifically Frillsand's one, not the magical kind, as those are completely different).
That's not internal damage as it doesn't cause damage? That's an ability that causes pain without causing damage as it's literally just pain without a harmful source, just the pain signals themselves activating.Second, Alice resisting every and all internal abilities is directly contradicted in the story, as we are told that, if used correctly, the Bologna Succubus's Cold Mistress can affect her. The spell works by replacing pleasure signals by pain. Sounds pretty internal to me.
Touma's thoughts on the matter being conveyed to us via the narrator, rather than the narrator's objective view of her abilities
The novels don't ever even try to imply she doesn't have those resistances it, regardless if they originally came from Touma's view or the narration, either give a quote saying Touma was wrong or the narrator saying something along the lines of "in reality, she can't resist all forms of internal damage".And given that we are not told what exactly makes her different in that regard, anything other than what has been stated/shown would be an unfounded assumption.
There's barely any ability that can be actually considered "internal only", for the 3rd time now, none of the examples the volumes used are internal only to begin with, poison gas and curses explicitly have to travel, bugs act as vectors, bacteria and viruses move around until the come in contact with you (and they can infect you from outside parts such as the eyes in some cases, won't make her any less resistant to them).Yes, because it's travellings towards then and then destroys the life force. It's a movement and destruction affect. I don't see it as being an internal only affect.
Yes, and I don't think those statements are reliable. The entire things reads to me as the narrator relaying Touma's thoughts to us.First it has been directly stated that she resist everyone of these.
They indeed come for the narrator. Touma only says the vulture one, we talked about these earlier in the thread. And the wording is because until GT7 (i think) Kamachi did not gave us a direct statement on why things don't affect her. That's why is not definitive, keeping a character powers hidden until later.
It is as clear to me with the rest. The narrator recalls prior events from the narrators perspective. "Kamijou couldn't guess" it's when the uncertain part starts. Everything before are clear cut objective things.
That doesn't sound like the perspective of an omniscient narrator.It was unknown if it was even possible to defeat her.
Well, yeah, it was never used against her. Just like every other abilities you're trying to get her to resist.Third that spell has never worked on Alice.
I'm not sure how the spell working on CRC has any relevance here.Fourth the same spell was used on CRC that is weaker than Alice and has not resistance and we got a grimace once.
"My Cold Mistress spell will probably only work on him once."
If anything, it supports my point that the narrator is only conveying Touma's thoughts on the situation. Especially since this is has also been directly contradicted by Kamachi. He literally told us that Alice was killed by Othinus, so Cold Mistress is obviously not the only spell that can work on her.aking all of this into account this is not an anti-feat and this is more a supporting argument that anything else since the only thing it says is that it is the only spell that may work and it is even doubting that the narration.
Crushing someone's head causes brain damage. She did walk around without a head later on, but we're explicitly told that she had to revive herself, and that CRC's attack did kill her.How is crushing her head an internal effect? And we know she walked without head and fought without a problem without head after that.
She was under immense emotional distress because she knew the person most important to her was about to die (even be killed by her). Her legs could very well be unsteady because of that. The narration also said she was acting animalistic and that she had no longer human emotion anymore.
The first part doesn't change absolutely anything or invalidates absolutely anything, we literally have physiology pages around the wiki that give characters, whole groups most of the time, several resistances.
Right, and I would imagine that those pages have more justification than just "built different". Because that's all we know about Alice's constitution. Her being remade from magic doesn't tell us anything regarding what makes her internally different.Also, we literally are told why her body is unique, she was literally remade with magic to be her own fictional version and ended up becoming a transcendent due to how good the experiment was.
The way y'all are arguing makes it sound like all instances of damage simply vanish as soon as it reaches "inside" her.The 2nd is even worse, because literally no one is claiming that it automatically negates stuff at all, we're adding resistance to stuff not power null.
The entire point of my post was to show that I don't believe the narrator to be an accurate source of information in this instance.The text literally adds right after that her resistances apply to both magic and science alike, this is pointless.
You're arguing that the internal damage caused by an external attack is resisted. The two quote literally contradict this. In the first case, CRC crushed her head (external attack) and Alice suffered brain damage (internal damage) that killed her.These "anti-feats" aren't anti-feats to begin with because punches and the like were never even implied to be among her resistances given, well, they're what is counted as external damage that she has to resist with her durability:
"But her soft skin could not deflect the macroscopic external damage of the crickets."
So Fiamma's pain manipulation counts as internal damage, but not Bologna's? That's convenient.That's not internal damage as it doesn't cause damage? That's an ability that causes pain without causing damage as it's literally just pain without a harmful source, just the pain signals themselves activating.
The statements were contradicted by having Alice directly suffer internal damage and having Cold Mistress be named as a weakness multiple times.The novels don't ever even try to imply she doesn't have those resistances it, regardless if they originally came from Touma's view or the narration, either give a quote saying Touma was wrong or the narrator saying something along the lines of "in reality, she can't resist all forms of internal damage".
Disagreed Resistances:
[SNIP]
As your assessing these quotes with an "if and then" vs "Do X" criteria consider this:[SNIP]
The attack origin is incomprehensible as the attack is inexplicable. We're already at possibly internal point, so partial resistance mean limited resistance right?From how I read it, it spreads the damage equally across all parts of the body but it still starts from the outside. The most I see is that she'd be immune to part of the affect, but not all of it. Its at best partial resistance in my mind.
I think you're mixing the lore description and their actual function. The bugs move to the gap between silver arm prosthetic sap and his lifeforce (whats happening) and the bugs feasted on divine flesh (lore) are the exact same thing not two different types.Maybe? I'm not really sure since they're eating the outside body. Though it's seemingly considered two different types of consumption, so the life force absorption is probably fine resistance wise.
I agree another mod's assessment of the quotes would be helpful since this is a big ask for someone without any context.My interpretation of it for the same reason she wouldn't be immune to a sword stabbing her. If you disagree with it get another mod to give their view regarding it.
I think you're confused since multiple different feat instances are being showed to you at once. "he inserts his matter making it intangible" is not happening in the novel text. There's no phasing occurring in the absorption instance like you said above but there is phasing in the manga transmutation instance.Then she could resist the power since it's Phasing and then consuming stuff.
For your second point I didn't see her resisting for the same reason she wouldn't resist someone crushing her head. If it starts at her outsides and eats inwards it would bypass her resistance in my mind.
This is just your normal gravity acting on a character ability. She is already bleeding because she was stabbed by a Dark Matter wing in the stomach causing the blood "to start spreading terribly fast" and then is "trampled" by something invisible over her (gravity) which is then said "the dark red on her, under pressure, started to expand a lot more quickly", which means she's bleeding even more. Then he increases the pressure and she bleeds more."pressure from the inside" is not a thing stated in the text.Yes, she'd be immune to that aspect of gravity manipulation.
Appealing to mechanics doesn't make sense here because the word curse is in the text is the only reason this is there, for her flat curse resistance. If that wasn’t there this wouldn’t count as “whether an event is likely to occur to someone" or "how a choice ends/destiny" is not internal damage.Now this i can address to. We have Aleister's curse that curses you and it affects you and makes sure that every action ends in failure. Isn't this a fundamental aspect also?
You are manipulating the fate of someone. There is also the curse that death manipulates you. Isn't that a fundamental aspect of her? Also she has this resistance already about fundamental aspects. Also something like soul manipulation that we agreed on before could be fundamental. This is also a limitation that i don't understand. Aren't curses very fundamental already?
Resistance's she already has:
-Resistance to Transcendents' abilities:
4. Fate Manipulation: (Cannot be affected by Vidhatri's ability to control the fate of the world)
5. Existence Erasure: (Cannot be erased by Vidhatri, who can erase people's existence by ommiting mentions of them.)
This is not for debate now since this if for the next thread but:
WoG in the Afterword of one of the volumes stating that the Transcendents would have been capable of surviving and killing Othinus
Othinus reality warped everyone away with phase manipulation (can explain if needed) and she could likely survive it since she is the leader of the Transcendents and leagues above them and even them could probably deal with that. We are not debating this now though. Just more context on her dealing with fundamental things. That is for another thread.
There is more to phase manipulation but i won't get to that.
The Curtanas do not "remote" cut the coordinate the person chooses... Thats not a thing. 20m is her dimension cutter slash range for dimensional debris appearing that extends from the sword. She can't spawn anything in internally by choosing those coordinates without actually swinging at those coordinates like you would a sword.So a sword that cuts any coordinates withing 20m and used to cut her inside would not be resisted? She already can affect higher dimensions. If you want the scans i will pull them out.
I am not arguing that she resist a normal cut from the sword of course. I am talking only about the internal cuts.
I am sorry that this is talking so long again. Thanks for sticking around as much as you are.
I understand where Guntish is coming from with their post and I agree with some of the points they bring up that call into question some of these resistances. We also never finished talking on this point and quote:Damn, I disagree with pretty much every single thing that has been brought up here. The only resistance I'd agree to for her are those that have been directly stated or shown to be resisted (bacteria, bug, curses).
That's not what we really mean by travel. By movement and destruction he means the specific ability effect/damage we're assessing moves to the outside, affects/damages the outside and then affects/damages the inside. The text delineates between both so it means internal damage in this way: (Poison Gas that doesn't cause external damage but damages insides once breathed in), (Bugs that move into the body and then cause an effect like the parasite variety of insect that enter and cause disease or physically eat away in the body), (Curses that target or move into the body and then the effect of the curse starts (like the scientific curse used in the example)), Bacteria, Viruses etc. Additionally not that this matters, but that quote is not saying all curses in Toaru travel its just saying there are curses that are traveling. For example, the cursed jewel that kills anyone who touches it and arguably some "infection" curses don't travel. Bugs are vaguely counted as both types of damage. We know the physical damage of the bugs can effect her externally. And we have examples of external physical attacks that can damage her insides (CRC, Touma). So then we reach the main disconnect with this sentiment is only damage location is covered in the quotes, not damage type. This distinction I've seen trying to be made with "damage type" (physical vs special hax side effects) is just not supported by the quotes. The only distinction made is damage location (internal/external). With that, some type of criteria has to be made to reconcile all this which is why Qaws has that stance.There's barely any ability that can be actually considered "internal only", for the 3rd time now, none of the examples the volumes used are internal only to begin with, poison gas and curses explicitly have to travel, bugs act as vectors, bacteria and viruses move around until the come in contact with you (and they can infect you from outside parts such as the eyes in some cases, won't make her any less resistant to them).
The damage has to be internal, it doesn't matter at all if the medium is traveling.