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[Toaru] Alice Anotherbible's Resistances
- Thread starter XDragnoir
- Start date
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- 312
Now that I think about it some more, if reality warping was used exclusively on her internals (such as Izzard's "explode from the inside" command, memory erasure, and whatever else), she'd be unaffected while reality warping attacks on the rest of her body wouldn't be. What a tricky thing to categorize and index.
Felience1's recent posts make sense to me (with the exception of probability manip).
Did anyone bring up Anna's life force disruption?
Felience1's recent posts make sense to me (with the exception of probability manip).
Did anyone bring up Anna's life force disruption?
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Alright so I am freed from my work loop.
I would need to see these powers in action. If you don't have it and you want me to take the powers at face value I can do that I guess.
I would need to see these powers in action. If you don't have it and you want me to take the powers at face value I can do that I guess.
Felience1
He/Him- 126
- 37
want me to explain what all of them do? i will do that when i have a bit of time.
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A quote from the work is fine, since that's the judgement criteria.
- 945
- 312
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Felience1
He/Him- 126
- 37
I will use the ones Churronzon helped me with so that it is all together. (Thanks btw)
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST.
This is ST:
Spiritual Tripping: A technique through which Aleister conveys his meditation to someone else by connecting his body to the target's just like a voodoo doll and links their movements, allowing him to affect their perception and enter their mind. To use it Aleister forms various gestures relating to a weapon and three specific numbers appear from his palm in succession before a weapon appears in his hands.[9] This paints a picture of the “weapon” in the target’s brain and creates a foothold for influencing them.[9][40] The weapon is illusory and only visible to the actual target/s, but it will cause them real damage while leaving anyone and anything else completely untouched. Anyone who sees the actions will be hit with exactly the destructive power they imagined it will have. Aleister's top rate skill as a magician allows him to accurately instill people with an image of texture, sheen, weight, hardness, and power of the weapon he's mimicking; so even if the target is not aware of the weapon's identity or power or even if they try to imagine something else as a counter, the true nature of the illusory weapon will pull through.[40] Since it all comes from the target’s own brain, physical distance will not cause a drop in accuracy.[68] Additionally, if someone targeted by this technique does not die through its effects, that person will essentially bear a curse saying that, from that point on, every choice they ever make will end in failure.[69]
Everyone who gets damaged by ST (sending a image to someone's mind that causes real damage only to his targets) He hit himself with it and said he is cursed to a life of failure and also this from de novels: "Now you will either die or have all possibility of success stripped from you as you live out the rest of your days in despair."
Since he uses curses and defines this as a curse too. and how it works i think it should count.
Also the attack is a very weird illusion manipulation that uses your mind since if a target does not have mind it doesn't work (that's why it should be internal). You rejected it but it is not the typical Illusion manip so maybe now you agree with that.
Law Manipulation from Accelerator. Law Manipulation (By having the power over the (formerly) nameless third tree and inserting it into the world, Accelerator overwrote the rules that govern reality and created a new set of rules and a new hierarchy[28])
Gravity Manipulation from Aureolus. Everything from this guy works by him believing something and that is manifested as real. so it has internal uses that should be resisted by Alice. Of course only the internal ones.
Reality warping from Aureolus Izzard (Can cause people to explode from the inside and lose their memory) it has other uses that you rejected.
Sound manipulation from four eyed dragon or Aureolus
Conceptual Manipulation from Archetype Controller. This is complicated too.
“He was the one that used the terms Academy City, esper, and science side and tossed them inside a framework that could be called mankind’s worship of science. To go a step further, the category of the Kiharas is another example. That is why we cannot defeat this ruler. If he wanted to, he could cut us off from our surroundings using the archetype of heretical science and cause the very definition of our existence to vanish into thin air. We might manage to survive, but we would become defanged cowards. And I shouldn’t have to explain what happens to a defanged and declawed beast that’s thrown out into the wild.” (On top of that, he brought glory to the archetype of modern Western magic during the Golden period and it is still strongly influenced by him. He could always use that archetype to affect the very foundation of today’s magic side.)"
“More importantly, if the 6 or 7 billion people on the planet all become Kiharas, not even Aleister’s Archetype Controller can reach us. He has the power to divide portions of mankind and pit them against each other as he pleases,"
I think it was used to make someone think a jail room was a palace or something nice and stay there happily by manipulating his concept of jail. Can't find the quote does someone have that?
Existence Erasure from Coronzon's ceremony. Don't know if we have other example of this.
Darkness Manipulation from Niang-Niang shadow blades. It touches you it does it effects magically without damage. They pass through skin.
Information Manipulation from Uiharu or Kreutune. This is complicated too.
Uiharu: She hacks reality. Can reprogram entities.
Information Manipulation (Disconnected Kimi Shundan's energy source from Angel Dragon, viewed reality as computer data and could apparently reprogram it[8][9])
Kreutune: She is a hungry girl. She eats peoples existence even if there is no body.
Telekinesis via Qiong Qi.
Matter Absorption from Kakine. Has matter which whatever properties he wants. Is a bit complex if anything is needed let me know. He has made his matter intangible until it is inside someone via phasing. (Don't think it matters at all but some people care about that so.)
Deconstruction from Fiamma: It destroys someone from the inside and has been stated here in NT9:
“It is too late.” Othinus spoke quietly from the ground. “It has already wreaked havoc inside my body. Even if you negate the stake with your right hand, the pain will not vanish. I will not conveniently return to being a mere human.”
and it is indexed like this for a bit more contex on fiamma:
Sin manipulation from Coronzon. (By using the Qliphothic forces, she can succumb the 7 billion humans to make choices they would never make under normal circumstances, such as having them kill each other as part of her ceremony[27][39])
Poison Manipulation: is poison. there are different types in the series. do i need to search specifics? i think this one is clearly internal.
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST is said that it curses you to a live of failure. Since it works very similar to a curse it should be resisted because kamachi told us that curses are resisted. Here.
Powernull from Kazakiri. This comes from the imaginary district and is a very complicated mechanism, this should count as law manip also btw. will do my best:
She powernulls and damages internally people that use magic. this works even on items of magical nature. There it is the specifics.
Anti-Magic Aura (As a living being composed entirely of AIM Fields[1][2] and as an artificial angel,[3] her presence alone warps the laws of the world, weakening magic and hurting magic users[4][5])
There are other powernulls like the fiamma with the stake one.
Biological Manipulation from Misaki (Controls the fluids in people's brains to mind control them) Alfar has this too. If you don't think it is internal then i will search for Alfar quotes.
Life Force Destruction from Coronzon's roar or Anna Sprengel who can disrupt the flow of lifeforce, the flame dragon burns life force. there is a few.
Stamina Reduction from flame dragon. "It damages things with an energy drain that seemingly burns life force itself".
Water Manipulation Nephthys' moisture absorption. Is sucks every bit of moisture in an area. it wasn't sucked from accelerator because vector manipulation and the moisture going away from him. It should include blood, brain fluids and all of those things you need to not die instantly.
Pain Manipulation from fiamma, it comes from grimoire, Stiyl has it too. Unreapaddy has Pashupata spell too.
If fiamma quote isn't internal to you, i will go dig the other scans.
Paralysis Inducement from misaka or Niang-Niang shadow blades. Misaka is a lightning user. It paralyzes your muscles with electric signals. If not will look for other example.
Possession from Aiwass or Elza or Qliphah. If you need quotes tell me but i think most of them are possession and that's it. will look if not enough.
Body Puppetry from Qliphah.
Perception Manipulation from Loki and Kihara Ransuu. Since Zensum only agreed with Ransuu i will put that one. If you don't think it counts will search for Loki's.
Ransuu's works with chemicals in the blood. Pretty straighforward.
“If you still don’t understand, that’s just cause you’re an idiot. It’s all chemicals in the end. They’re what increase or decrease people’s emotions. I’ve taken tiny particles with the same effects as the chemicals secreted in the brain and scatter them on mold. The tech has its base in research derived from the #5’s Five Over series.”
“If that isn’t enough, it isn’t worth explaining further. With wind, temperature change, and static electricity, it’s not too hard to control once you get used to it. Having it spread in the direction you want and ensuring a safe zone can be handled with a single program. During their sweet dreams, everyone just stands around. Do you understand now?”An illusion. It was simple enough to say, but the level of technology required to show a certain person the image you wanted them to see was unimaginable.
“It’s still not easy, though. The chemicals themselves have names like Red Fury 03 and Blue Fear 07, so anyone with a middle school level knowledge of English can tell they increase certain emotions. The real trick is combining them in the right way to give the experience you want. When you also want to affect multiple people at the same time, it starts to be something like cooking. Well, just like how what you eat affects how you smell, the substances in your blood have external effects, so it isn’t like I don’t get any kind of hint.”
Explosion Manipulation and Shockwave Manipulation from Ollerus. You rejected this but i think maybe you didn't understand it. It spawns on you and damages internal organs, blood vesels and such things. When used offensively, Hliðskjálf takes the form of an invisible spell that blows the enemy backward without Ollerus making any kind of movement or sign. It does equal damage to every part of the body including internal organs. It has no identifiable source. According to Ollerus, this attack cannot be defended against, as the enemy cannot even begin to mount a defense against an attack using an unexplainable power coming from an incomprehensible place while not leaving them a chance to form a countermeasure.[5][6]
Sorry for not taking into account that you didn't have an understanding of everything. Makes sense just didn't realize, my bad. If anything else needs clarification let me know and i will happily help when available. Thanks for your time.
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST.
This is ST:
Spiritual Tripping: A technique through which Aleister conveys his meditation to someone else by connecting his body to the target's just like a voodoo doll and links their movements, allowing him to affect their perception and enter their mind. To use it Aleister forms various gestures relating to a weapon and three specific numbers appear from his palm in succession before a weapon appears in his hands.[9] This paints a picture of the “weapon” in the target’s brain and creates a foothold for influencing them.[9][40] The weapon is illusory and only visible to the actual target/s, but it will cause them real damage while leaving anyone and anything else completely untouched. Anyone who sees the actions will be hit with exactly the destructive power they imagined it will have. Aleister's top rate skill as a magician allows him to accurately instill people with an image of texture, sheen, weight, hardness, and power of the weapon he's mimicking; so even if the target is not aware of the weapon's identity or power or even if they try to imagine something else as a counter, the true nature of the illusory weapon will pull through.[40] Since it all comes from the target’s own brain, physical distance will not cause a drop in accuracy.[68] Additionally, if someone targeted by this technique does not die through its effects, that person will essentially bear a curse saying that, from that point on, every choice they ever make will end in failure.[69]
Everyone who gets damaged by ST (sending a image to someone's mind that causes real damage only to his targets) He hit himself with it and said he is cursed to a life of failure and also this from de novels: "Now you will either die or have all possibility of success stripped from you as you live out the rest of your days in despair."
Since he uses curses and defines this as a curse too. and how it works i think it should count.
Also the attack is a very weird illusion manipulation that uses your mind since if a target does not have mind it doesn't work (that's why it should be internal). You rejected it but it is not the typical Illusion manip so maybe now you agree with that.
Law Manipulation from Accelerator. Law Manipulation (By having the power over the (formerly) nameless third tree and inserting it into the world, Accelerator overwrote the rules that govern reality and created a new set of rules and a new hierarchy[28])
Gravity Manipulation from Aureolus. Everything from this guy works by him believing something and that is manifested as real. so it has internal uses that should be resisted by Alice. Of course only the internal ones.
Reality warping from Aureolus Izzard (Can cause people to explode from the inside and lose their memory) it has other uses that you rejected.
Sound manipulation from four eyed dragon or Aureolus
- "Shatter": Causes the target/s to shatter like paper crumpling or ash falling apart until their remains disperse into the air as particles.[6]
- "Sleep": Makes the target fall into a deep sleep.
Conceptual Manipulation from Archetype Controller. This is complicated too.
“He was the one that used the terms Academy City, esper, and science side and tossed them inside a framework that could be called mankind’s worship of science. To go a step further, the category of the Kiharas is another example. That is why we cannot defeat this ruler. If he wanted to, he could cut us off from our surroundings using the archetype of heretical science and cause the very definition of our existence to vanish into thin air. We might manage to survive, but we would become defanged cowards. And I shouldn’t have to explain what happens to a defanged and declawed beast that’s thrown out into the wild.” (On top of that, he brought glory to the archetype of modern Western magic during the Golden period and it is still strongly influenced by him. He could always use that archetype to affect the very foundation of today’s magic side.)"
“More importantly, if the 6 or 7 billion people on the planet all become Kiharas, not even Aleister’s Archetype Controller can reach us. He has the power to divide portions of mankind and pit them against each other as he pleases,"
I think it was used to make someone think a jail room was a palace or something nice and stay there happily by manipulating his concept of jail. Can't find the quote does someone have that?
Existence Erasure from Coronzon's ceremony. Don't know if we have other example of this.
Darkness Manipulation from Niang-Niang shadow blades. It touches you it does it effects magically without damage. They pass through skin.
- Darkness Manipulation & Paralysis Inducement (Pinned Mikoto in place with a shadow blade that passed through her torso without initially harming her[17][16])
Information Manipulation from Uiharu or Kreutune. This is complicated too.
Uiharu: She hacks reality. Can reprogram entities.
Information Manipulation (Disconnected Kimi Shundan's energy source from Angel Dragon, viewed reality as computer data and could apparently reprogram it[8][9])
Kreutune: She is a hungry girl. She eats peoples existence even if there is no body.
- Information Eating: Perhaps as an extension of her ability to absorb information, Fräulein was capable of seeing and interacting with Yakumi Hisako after she became an information life form with no physical body. Fräulein was capable of eating Hisako's body, taking away over 30% of her existence with a single bite.[2]
Telekinesis via Qiong Qi.
- Psychokinesis: Psychokinesis is a versatile general-purpose esper power with various applications, somewhat similar to Telekinesis. The Qiong Qi can use Level 5 Psychokinesis due to boosting the power of a Level 3 Esper's corpse. This allows it to dissipate Accelerator's wind attacks and to easily make large holes in walls and ceilings. The Qiong Qi also apparently managed to kill one of DA's grunts by mutilating him and melting his flesh, though no further details were given. Additionally, the Qiong Qi can use an undescribed trick to partially get pass Accelerator's reflection, as it managed to damage the skin of Accelerator's left arm on their clash, though the Qiong Qi also suffered some damage. This trick seems to depend on the Qiong Qi's calculation ability, as when it was heavily damaged by Accelerator and tried a last ditch attack, it completely failed to harm Accelerator, who stated that the Qiong Qi wouldn't reach him with calculations that sloppy. The Qiong Qi eyes seem to glow when he uses Psychokinesis.
Matter Absorption from Kakine. Has matter which whatever properties he wants. Is a bit complex if anything is needed let me know. He has made his matter intangible until it is inside someone via phasing. (Don't think it matters at all but some people care about that so.)
- Durability Negation, Matter Manipulation, and Absorption (Can break down targets on a macro quantum level and absorb them[11])
Deconstruction from Fiamma: It destroys someone from the inside and has been stated here in NT9:
“It is too late.” Othinus spoke quietly from the ground. “It has already wreaked havoc inside my body. Even if you negate the stake with your right hand, the pain will not vanish. I will not conveniently return to being a mere human.”
and it is indexed like this for a bit more contex on fiamma:
- Power Nullification, Statistics Reduction & Deconstruction (Can depower, weaken, and destroy a god through his version of the Fairy Stake which utilizes his specialization in disintegration techniques[4][5])
- Sealing (Can cut down Lucifer and bind the Devil to Hell)
Sin manipulation from Coronzon. (By using the Qliphothic forces, she can succumb the 7 billion humans to make choices they would never make under normal circumstances, such as having them kill each other as part of her ceremony[27][39])
Poison Manipulation: is poison. there are different types in the series. do i need to search specifics? i think this one is clearly internal.
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST is said that it curses you to a live of failure. Since it works very similar to a curse it should be resisted because kamachi told us that curses are resisted. Here.
Powernull from Kazakiri. This comes from the imaginary district and is a very complicated mechanism, this should count as law manip also btw. will do my best:
She powernulls and damages internally people that use magic. this works even on items of magical nature. There it is the specifics.
Anti-Magic Aura (As a living being composed entirely of AIM Fields[1][2] and as an artificial angel,[3] her presence alone warps the laws of the world, weakening magic and hurting magic users[4][5])
There are other powernulls like the fiamma with the stake one.
Biological Manipulation from Misaki (Controls the fluids in people's brains to mind control them) Alfar has this too. If you don't think it is internal then i will search for Alfar quotes.
Life Force Destruction from Coronzon's roar or Anna Sprengel who can disrupt the flow of lifeforce, the flame dragon burns life force. there is a few.
Stamina Reduction from flame dragon. "It damages things with an energy drain that seemingly burns life force itself".
Water Manipulation Nephthys' moisture absorption. Is sucks every bit of moisture in an area. it wasn't sucked from accelerator because vector manipulation and the moisture going away from him. It should include blood, brain fluids and all of those things you need to not die instantly.
Pain Manipulation from fiamma, it comes from grimoire, Stiyl has it too. Unreapaddy has Pashupata spell too.
If fiamma quote isn't internal to you, i will go dig the other scans.
Paralysis Inducement from misaka or Niang-Niang shadow blades. Misaka is a lightning user. It paralyzes your muscles with electric signals. If not will look for other example.
Possession from Aiwass or Elza or Qliphah. If you need quotes tell me but i think most of them are possession and that's it. will look if not enough.
Body Puppetry from Qliphah.
- Poison Needles: Qliphah can release and control poison needles on strings from her fingers. The bodies of those hit by the needles are under the control of Qliphah. She can produce hundreds of millions of needles at once and control entire groups of people.[5]
- Dangerous Knowledge: Qlpihah's dress has the Qliphoth on it and can spread the dangerous knowledge to those that look at it. Without proper education taking in parts of this knowledge can confuse or even shatter the human mind.
Perception Manipulation from Loki and Kihara Ransuu. Since Zensum only agreed with Ransuu i will put that one. If you don't think it counts will search for Loki's.
Ransuu's works with chemicals in the blood. Pretty straighforward.
“If you still don’t understand, that’s just cause you’re an idiot. It’s all chemicals in the end. They’re what increase or decrease people’s emotions. I’ve taken tiny particles with the same effects as the chemicals secreted in the brain and scatter them on mold. The tech has its base in research derived from the #5’s Five Over series.”
“If that isn’t enough, it isn’t worth explaining further. With wind, temperature change, and static electricity, it’s not too hard to control once you get used to it. Having it spread in the direction you want and ensuring a safe zone can be handled with a single program. During their sweet dreams, everyone just stands around. Do you understand now?”An illusion. It was simple enough to say, but the level of technology required to show a certain person the image you wanted them to see was unimaginable.
“It’s still not easy, though. The chemicals themselves have names like Red Fury 03 and Blue Fear 07, so anyone with a middle school level knowledge of English can tell they increase certain emotions. The real trick is combining them in the right way to give the experience you want. When you also want to affect multiple people at the same time, it starts to be something like cooking. Well, just like how what you eat affects how you smell, the substances in your blood have external effects, so it isn’t like I don’t get any kind of hint.”
Explosion Manipulation and Shockwave Manipulation from Ollerus. You rejected this but i think maybe you didn't understand it. It spawns on you and damages internal organs, blood vesels and such things. When used offensively, Hliðskjálf takes the form of an invisible spell that blows the enemy backward without Ollerus making any kind of movement or sign. It does equal damage to every part of the body including internal organs. It has no identifiable source. According to Ollerus, this attack cannot be defended against, as the enemy cannot even begin to mount a defense against an attack using an unexplainable power coming from an incomprehensible place while not leaving them a chance to form a countermeasure.[5][6]
Sorry for not taking into account that you didn't have an understanding of everything. Makes sense just didn't realize, my bad. If anything else needs clarification let me know and i will happily help when available. Thanks for your time.
Felience1
He/Him- 126
- 37
Also this may be relevant. About how i think it works. I can further explain if needed.
Felience1
He/Him- 126
- 37
Archetype: It can manipulate peoples brains like the example in my post above. Still the concept of yourself also is internal.
Deconstruction. Read life force below. Where is it said that it matters when Kamachi examples says otherwise.
Water: correct. the water inside is what she resist. She doesn't power null the ability in the rest of the area. If we have a Area that destroys everyone's hearts. Then it isn't internal because that just also include the character in the area?
Lifeforce: Then Anna has her version. Why does it matter that is a roar? The effect is internal. She is inmune to internal effects. Read my examples about bacteria or curses or bugs which Kamachi specifies that it doesn't matter saying that purely scientifical stuff works too. And it starts outside but affects internals like bacteria.
Powernull: In a early stage sure, it says that if she were to really do it it won't be like that. And i don't think it is said anywhere that it affects skin. They throw up blood and recieve internal damage in the early stages.
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Archetype:
The Archetype Controller doesn't manipulate the brain, it manipulates archetype concepts and their definitions like the category of Kihara, Science side, western mysticism... etc. They aren't internal, the archetypes are abstractions/representational, which is why it's able to be listed as conceptional manipulation not mind manipulation. There's no mention of it manipulating Enshuu's brain in your example. It just says it overturned her as one who needs to be around others to someone who desires prison confinement.
Deconstruction:
Every instance of Fairy Spell needs the target to make physical contact/be stabbed with the fairy stake and it's the same with Fiamma.
Water Manipulation:
The Nile water magic collects all water in an area including from bodies, it isn't specifically an internal ability. Your example is specifically an internal ability because its function is to destroy the heart in bodies.
Lifeforce:
Anna kicks or punches someone thats an external ability like the roar that shakes the body. I talked about this, but we're focused solely on the damage from abilities, items, objects... etc that target the insides (bacteria, bugs, gas, curses) because the quotes contextualize internal and external damage. (She resists one, but not the other so abilities that cause external damage and reach the insides/or do both types of damage aren't applicable.)
Powernull:
My point is it's not a nulling that's doing damage. It's essentially a crushing pressure applied to magicians. The spell pressure is at a bearable level, but once completed w/ Fuse Kazakiri it will be a Phase that covers the world and interferes with the magical laws. The error in the laws of magic and the pressure from the angel would cause all those who use magic to lose control/self-destruct and magicians to be killed off.
Felience1
He/Him- 126
- 37
I don't understand your definition of external. Lets leave abilities for a moment. Where has Kamachi ever stated that something that is applied from the outside of physically doesn't work? A needle with poison is applied externally but what effect does it have? Internal. Do you think a poison that destroys someone brain or lungs or whatever when injected won't be resisted because she has to get stabbed by a needle? How does that have anything to do with what the ability does. How has water getting absorbed from an area has anything to do with it not being internal. Leaving blood vessels without blood and brain without its liquids is not internal damage?. We need to separate between an ability that starts outside or is applied physically and what the effect does which is the only thing Kamachi told us. I don't know where has he ever hinted to the method of applying it matters when scientific bacteria and scientific bugs has to enter somehow from the outside. I quoted what the fairy spell does. We all agree that destroying Othinus insides is internal right? Why it matters that it is a stake? She resist effects on her insides and there is no such limitations like the way the ability is applied. Destroying the lifeforce inside her is internal, we all agree right? why does it matter that it comes from a roar? She is inmune to curses. many of them come from a hit or a chant. She will resist them either way. I don't see why you are adding such limitation that i don't even know where it comes from and leads to things like poison that destroys (for example) brains not working because it comes from a needle. Or bacteria injected in her. Why would she be affected by that poison or bacteria?
Second point. Even if a ability does two effects internal and external. Then she resist the internal effects. If poison doesn't affect her at all but now is a poison-acid that burns her skin and then (insert internal poison effect like destroying her heart) works magically now on her? Why? She would resist the internal part of the ability either way. Something having some external damage does not mean the internal effects it also has now work somehow. For example a sword dipped in poison. the sword cuts her indeed. does the poison do anything? It does not work like that. What about a magic sword that when it grazes you destroys your heart or your brain. You are arguing that since it also damages her skin it works. It does not work like that. I think the sword cuts and such internal effect never takes place. You can separate effects instead of saying an ability is only one thing that will completely affect her or not. When the case i think it is that only the internal effects of that would be resisted.
The Archetype can manipulate the concept of psychology and human mind.
I hope i can understand your point better like this because i don't get it. Please tell me what you think. Thank you for your time Zensum i know this is taking long.
Second point. Even if a ability does two effects internal and external. Then she resist the internal effects. If poison doesn't affect her at all but now is a poison-acid that burns her skin and then (insert internal poison effect like destroying her heart) works magically now on her? Why? She would resist the internal part of the ability either way. Something having some external damage does not mean the internal effects it also has now work somehow. For example a sword dipped in poison. the sword cuts her indeed. does the poison do anything? It does not work like that. What about a magic sword that when it grazes you destroys your heart or your brain. You are arguing that since it also damages her skin it works. It does not work like that. I think the sword cuts and such internal effect never takes place. You can separate effects instead of saying an ability is only one thing that will completely affect her or not. When the case i think it is that only the internal effects of that would be resisted.
The Archetype can manipulate the concept of psychology and human mind.
I hope i can understand your point better like this because i don't get it. Please tell me what you think. Thank you for your time Zensum i know this is taking long.
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So my views for those
Attack starts on the outside and works its way inside through skin penetration, so it wouldn't count
Starts on the inside, so it would count
To list
- The roar that moves and hits the target, wouldn't count
- The punch that disrupts life force when it connects starts on the outside and then attacks, wouldn't count
- Fire starts on the outside when it burns things, wouldn't count
Would steal moisture from the body, since it starts inside it would count as a resistance
The crawling force moves inside of his body to inflict the pain. Since it has to attack the inside of the body first to work, I would say it counts as a resistance
She'd be immune to breathing it, but stepping in an acid puddle would still harm her in my mind.
- The first power starts on the inside, which she'd resist
- If Raildex has an astral concept of a mind, then I wouldn't count this as a resistance. If they don't and its all the brain, then I'd say it would count
My assumption is that she would not be immune to him connecting himself to her. But the affects of the connection she'd be immune to, since it involves affecting the target's mind.
Reality Warping would be changing fundamental aspects about things beyond the body. This wouldn't count as a resistance in my mind.
Alright?
Went over it before
Like with the roar, its an attack that travels and hits the person then affects them. So she wouldn't resist it in my mind.
I'd like a scan, but if its just making someone fall asleep I'd agree it would count as an internal resistance.
Like with Law Manipulation, something governing a total concept would be beyond the scope of her resistance in my mind.
This would start outside of her and then work its way towards destroying her. Wouldn't count as a resistance in my mind.
She wouldn't be immune to being shanked, but since the blade only has a paralysis affect post stabbing, I'd say she'd be immune to that.
Like with Law Manipulation and EE, I don't see this counting as a resistance
The attacks starts on the outside and after it rips it off then affects the target. Wouldn't count as a resistance in my midn.
This isn't really an excerpt, so I can't judge how the power works. Just at face value, since Accelerator can deflect attacks, meaning it must travel to affect something. Which wouldn't give her a resistance.
Like with Kreutune this travels and then breaks something down from the outside first. Wouldn't count as a resistance in my mind.
The piercing ability of the stake would not be resistance. But since you must first be pierced and then the attack hits, the secondary affects would be resisted in my mind.
I'll default to being against it until a source is provided then.
Answered above
From the look of it, it targets the soul or inner self. Which I think would be covered as an internal feature being manipulated and she'd resist it
If the poison works through skin contact, then no. If it works by jabbing someone with something or consuming/inhaling it, then she would resist it.
Alright
I have no idea what your quotes are trying to say here to be honest. If its resisting the field, then I don't think she can, since it starts externally and then nullifies.
See previous answer
See previous answer
See previous answer
See previous answer
See previous answer
See previous answer
Possession is probably resisted as long as its nothing weird
She would not be immune to the needles stabbing her. She would be immune to the secondary affects in my mind, since the stabbing is a different aspect from the body control.
To me that's an outside source inflicting damage to you. The only way to resist it would be to blank out the knowledge, which would be difficult to prove in my mind.
See previous
Since the chemicals involve being smelled first and then working, I would think that she'd resist that. Though she would still breathe it in, just be immune to that particular affect.
From how I read it, it spreads the damage equally across all parts of the body but it still starts from the outside. The most I see is that she'd be immune to part of the affect, but not all of it. Its at best partial resistance in my mind.
Felience1
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I mean, that's the logic I used throughout my comment. So I don't think that changes anything.
Felience1
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Sorry for the repeats, didn't realize.
Also when you say that a power when internally is resisted but outside not. Don't worry, every single one of this resistances is only when used internally so it is already limited to that.
That has two effects, It shakes their body (not resisted at all) and snuffes out the life within the body like a candle flame. I think that second one should count since it says it is inside the body. And for the punch that disrupts lifeforce i think it should be the same since the punch hits but the life force is not disrupted since that's internal. Up to you.
This dragon erased the memories of Izzard with a bite. The bite works but i don't think memories. would be destroyed.
Misaki (biological manipulation via moisture in brain) Can alter and destroy memories too.
You tell me if that is enough. We have a couple more memory manipulation, if you don't think this counts will dig for those.
So the word is used to help shape his thoughts and the effect occurs.
Also: "In front of the alchemist, atop a garish desk, laid a silver-haired girl, put to sleep quietly."
That's all there is. One of his uses of Ars Magna.
"(That’s why Kihara Enshuu was isolated in that juvenile hall even though she didn’t really need punishment. Someone…someone on the same level as sensei was afraid of having this decoded.) Kihara Enshuu was not an expert at trickery, but it still had to have been incredibly difficult to get her to hole up deep inside that prison like it was a luxury hotel while thinking it was her own idea. Whoever this was had pulled it off splendidly. It had been enough to completely overturn her murderous schedule and the joy of being needed by those around her. Yuiitsu’s list of candidates was quite short. And just one person on that list had any real connection with the Kihara brand. (The Archetype Controller. So it’s that board chairman.)"
"He identified a grinding noise. He didn’t know what had happened. Kakine hadn’t touched Yomikawa, but something invisible trampled over her. Her body twitched. The dark red on her, under pressure, started to expand a lot more quickly."
This is the sealing from the pope who also has one:
"The sound of an explosion rang out. The thirteen-faced polygon surrounding Fiamma formed a ring to restrain him. Not to physically bind him but to sever his body from his mind and to have them spin fruitlessly within his flesh for eternity—restraints that did not wound."
Apologies for the delay, i have been busy and finding some stuff was tricky.
Also when you say that a power when internally is resisted but outside not. Don't worry, every single one of this resistances is only when used internally so it is already limited to that.
Sure, but the effect in the scan says it messes with internal organs only. It's not like it has another effect but internal. The skin suffers every effect. The second part inside is what i think should be resisted.
First a bit more background on this. Life force in Toaru is what magicians refine inside their bodies into mana via different methods so you can only mess with that by affecting insides.
That has two effects, It shakes their body (not resisted at all) and snuffes out the life within the body like a candle flame. I think that second one should count since it says it is inside the body. And for the punch that disrupts lifeforce i think it should be the same since the punch hits but the life force is not disrupted since that's internal. Up to you.
It gets nulled when Touma uses imagine breaker (power null) on his head.
This dragon erased the memories of Izzard with a bite. The bite works but i don't think memories. would be destroyed.
Misaki (biological manipulation via moisture in brain) Can alter and destroy memories too.
You tell me if that is enough. We have a couple more memory manipulation, if you don't think this counts will dig for those.
It doesn't travel. It comes from the same reality warping (Ars Magna) and it also says it is instant unlike a usual sound. The word is just used so he can concentrate since that is a weakness of Aureolus By changing that mental simulation with their thoughts they can drag those changes into the real world and overwrite reality, essentially making the user able to mold and control the real world with their thoughts.[5]
So the word is used to help shape his thoughts and the effect occurs.
"Aureolus Izzard just wanted to save one girl. Behind him there was a large desk made of ebony, and on it was a girl who had been placed into a sleep."
Also: "In front of the alchemist, atop a garish desk, laid a silver-haired girl, put to sleep quietly."
That's all there is. One of his uses of Ars Magna.
It can indeed be used to alter such concepts but it's main use also is to change concepts in the psychology of the human mind and as seen here it was used to change her opinion on a prison to make her believe it was a luxury hotel and that she wanted to stay there.
"(That’s why Kihara Enshuu was isolated in that juvenile hall even though she didn’t really need punishment. Someone…someone on the same level as sensei was afraid of having this decoded.) Kihara Enshuu was not an expert at trickery, but it still had to have been incredibly difficult to get her to hole up deep inside that prison like it was a luxury hotel while thinking it was her own idea. Whoever this was had pulled it off splendidly. It had been enough to completely overturn her murderous schedule and the joy of being needed by those around her. Yuiitsu’s list of candidates was quite short. And just one person on that list had any real connection with the Kihara brand. (The Archetype Controller. So it’s that board chairman.)"
Moisture was also is reflected and it starts inside. This one is not explained in amazing depth though so up to you.
- The sounds of narrow tubes breaking from the inside could be heard.
- The Dark Matter ate into the objects around him as if flowing back through the electrodes and cables meant to control the device known as Kakine Teitoku. All color turned to white and the electronic devices at the other end of the cables were swallowed up in an instant.
- “Ha ha ha!! Ogaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!”
- It seemed they had set up a parallel processor by constructing a giant system out of hundreds of computers, but it did not matter. It was too late. He spread out through each and every one of the cables set up like a spider web. He devoured all of the computers, all of the power sources allowing those computers to run, and everything else they were connected to. He bit into them, swallowed them, digested them, and turned them all into a part of him.
- Absorption: The Dark Matter permeates the object as if it were flowing through it. The object gets disintegrated and is absorbed into the dark matter.[11]
- Intangible Matter: Kakine can create a type of dark matter that only interacts with people, phasing straight through any other kind of matter.[2]
"He identified a grinding noise. He didn’t know what had happened. Kakine hadn’t touched Yomikawa, but something invisible trampled over her. Her body twitched. The dark red on her, under pressure, started to expand a lot more quickly."
Fiamma sealing at last found it 2nd image. It is a miracle that binds someone to hell. I think somewhere else it
This is the sealing from the pope who also has one:
"The sound of an explosion rang out. The thirteen-faced polygon surrounding Fiamma formed a ring to restrain him. Not to physically bind him but to sever his body from his mind and to have them spin fruitlessly within his flesh for eternity—restraints that did not wound."
Maybe you prefer this from Chimera, in the second image it drives you mad if you smell her scent. That should be a more straightforward example.
Of course only inside.
Apologies for the delay, i have been busy and finding some stuff was tricky.
Felience1
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2 more things i remembered.
Death manipulation was rejected. Here is another different one that should count since it is a curse also. You eat something you get death manipulated.
"Also, her body was immune to bacteria, bugs, curses, and all other forms of internal damage, both scientific and magical. As for external damage, she would always remain unscathed thanks to the hedgehogs and flamingo protecting her."
this should fit pretty well that for life force:
Death manipulation was rejected. Here is another different one that should count since it is a curse also. You eat something you get death manipulated.
- Curse Manipulation and Death Manipulation (Her pomegranate seeds embed a curse of death, killing its victim[16])
"Also, her body was immune to bacteria, bugs, curses, and all other forms of internal damage, both scientific and magical. As for external damage, she would always remain unscathed thanks to the hedgehogs and flamingo protecting her."
this should fit pretty well that for life force:
Felience1
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Another sealing from Aleister.
- Banner of the West: A sealing technique in which Aleister seals the target into the ground. Through the use of this technique, he could seal. In order to use the seal, he requires the banner of the west to be drawn unto the ground. When he sealed Coronzon, he interpreted a part of the network of Academy City's streets as forming the banner of the west despite them not being laid out for this purpose, turning the entire city into a seal in the process. This means, while the requirement of having the banner of the west drawn is a restriction, there are also various ways Aleister could use to get around this restriction.[24]
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I definitely don't have been following this thread since I left, bit have y'all really not found out a consistent criteria for what will be resisted?
Life force is by default internal, I've no idea how the other two aren't internal damage as well, but Anna at the very least should pass under the "secondary effect criteria".
This seems like trying to differentiate what counts with target and medium as the main criteria while ignoring that it being internal in nature is the main point.
If a character looks at me and destroys my life force it definitely would count... but because it's a shockwave then it suddenly isn't an internal attack in nature anymore?
To give a practical example, Kamino can disintegrate matter by looking at it, Fiamma does it with his stake and Four-Eyed Dragon does the same through its voice, one is sight based, the other is contact+medium based and the other is ranged+medium based, all of them have the same result which is to disintegrate the target, it doesn't make sense to see the result as internal in one case and not the others simply because of the existence of a medium (having a medium or not was never a prerequisite or invalidity for her resistance, as insects, viruses and bacterias are both direct examples we got for what she can resist), this also gives me the idea that you're still using the "if it travels she doesn't resist logic" to some extent (no idea if you changed your mind from this in a reply I didn't read) but like... why did you even come up with this to begin with? Curses explicitly travel in Toaru and they're also one of the main examples Alice has in the LNs for her resistances.
Anna's punches explicitly have a secondary effect that disrupts the internal flow of life force after it affected the external so like, what makes this any different from Qliphah's needles and Fiamma's stake that have a physical medium for their hax as well?
Life force is by default internal, I've no idea how the other two aren't internal damage as well, but Anna at the very least should pass under the "secondary effect criteria".
This seems like trying to differentiate what counts with target and medium as the main criteria while ignoring that it being internal in nature is the main point.
If a character looks at me and destroys my life force it definitely would count... but because it's a shockwave then it suddenly isn't an internal attack in nature anymore?
To give a practical example, Kamino can disintegrate matter by looking at it, Fiamma does it with his stake and Four-Eyed Dragon does the same through its voice, one is sight based, the other is contact+medium based and the other is ranged+medium based, all of them have the same result which is to disintegrate the target, it doesn't make sense to see the result as internal in one case and not the others simply because of the existence of a medium (having a medium or not was never a prerequisite or invalidity for her resistance, as insects, viruses and bacterias are both direct examples we got for what she can resist), this also gives me the idea that you're still using the "if it travels she doesn't resist logic" to some extent (no idea if you changed your mind from this in a reply I didn't read) but like... why did you even come up with this to begin with? Curses explicitly travel in Toaru and they're also one of the main examples Alice has in the LNs for her resistances.
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Its a radiation wave, so it affects everything it passes through. I guess you could argue that she'd be immune to the portion that cross her internal organs, but its an outside source that pierces her while causing the affects, so in my mind it just doesn't count.
The soundwave still travels and then strikes you. To me that an outside force that destroys something, rather than a force that attacks the inside and goes out. So like with radiation I don't see this as counting as an internal starting strike. Its an outside wave that destroys life force, which she wouldn't resist in my view.
I would say it counts as internal then.
If you're arguing its reality warping, then in my mind it 100% doesn't count for the same reason I don't think Law Manipulation or the other versions of Reality Warping doesn't count.
Sure then, it would count I guess.
Concepts of a person's mind would still be beyond the scope of your insides. Its altering what you are on a fundamental/meta level. Unless you have an existing showing of her resisting this attack, its an NLF to give it to her in my mind.
Moisture explicitly starts on the inside, which is what she's immune to and why she'd resist it. Its travelling towards her since there's a direction and magnitude that can be shifted, so I don't see that qualifying as a resistance.
I'm not seeing anywhere in your passage where he phases Dark Matter into the devices to absorb them. Just spreads them out and eats them. If you have a source that shows that, then she'd be immune to the dark matter eating her insides in that particular manner.
Going by both I would say she would resist the second form of sealing, since its specifically about splitting the mind from the body.
Then Chimera example is fine.
I read it as the punch directly causing the disruption. If its a secondary affect like with those, then she'd resist the second portion. But how I read it was the disruption happens during the punch's impact, which is why I didn't think it would count.
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Wtf? She is immune to curses, I repeat, to curses, which literally fly around the world in Toaru. You're judging the validity of her resistances based on a made up criteria that's not supported, so like, can't you just drop this for god's sake? She is resistant to any kind of ability, magical or scientific, that tries to circumvent her durability by affecting her internals, it does not matter if the ability travels or not, literally all of the examples the series gave us have to travel, she won't resist the KE aspect as we saw when bugs started to bite her, but she would resist anything they tried to infect her with.
Did you read my example? If you did, can you at least explain the logic behind what you're saying? Because you're again judging stuff based on how they are delivered rather than what they affect in their targets.
Felience1
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First of all. You are not using what i said and what XDragnoir said after (exactly the same, we have the same opinion). That criteria about a medium does not exist as pointed out again by XDragnor recently and i think you are confusing the only limitation. She is resistant to things that affect her insides. Which has nothing to do at all which things that come from the outside or the inside. There is a very big difference between those. For example curses. They come from the outside they affect her inside.
Read any of the previous post for more input on this. The skin thing or coming for the outside or now even saying that the punch can disrupt the lifeforce at the same time and it has to be a secondary effect are criteria that do not exist at all and contradicts the author.
I would like you to address XDragnoir and me on this topic but i will continue with the rest.
You did not comment about this so here they go again:
Death manipulation was rejected. Here is another different one that should count since it is a curse also. You eat something you get death manipulated.
- Curse Manipulation and Death Manipulation (Her pomegranate seeds embed a curse of death, killing its victim[16])
"Also, her body was immune to bacteria, bugs, curses, and all other forms of internal damage, both scientific and magical. As for external damage, she would always remain unscathed thanks to the hedgehogs and flamingo protecting her."
this should fit pretty well that for life force:Life-force Absorption (His bugs sap life force and feast on divine flesh[15])
Now the rest:
It doesn't matter. The ability affects internals, then she is resistant to it. The source doesn't matter, it having to pierce does not matter when bugs have to do the same. Coming from the outside does not matter. It contradicts the examples by Kamachi and anything related has never even been remotely talked in the series.
Where does this limitation come from?
I don't understand why it matters if it is reality warping or not when it is affecting her insides.
I wouldn't call NLF to the author saying that she is inmune to things changing her insides and this can be used to alter minds that we agreed previously that minds are internal.
Does not matter. But i will drop Telekinesis one since there is not much info.
Absorption: The Dark Matter permeates the object as if it were flowing through it. The object gets disintegrated and is absorbed into the dark matter.
Intangible Matter: Kakine can create a type of dark matter that only interacts with people, phasing straight through any other kind of matter.[2]
It is right there. He can make matter phase when he wants. Also It should not matter at all because it coming from the outside piercing normally and absorbing should be the same.
The same with his Transmutation via Dark Matter that works by affecting cells. it is internal.
You also didn't comment on this one:
Kakine also has Gravity manipulation: The Character had a cut wound and then a pressure from the inside makes her bleed out faster. As pressure from the outside would do the opposite.
"He identified a grinding noise. He didn’t know what had happened. Kakine hadn’t touched Yomikawa, but something invisible trampled over her. Her body twitched. The dark red on her, under pressure, started to expand a lot more quickly."
Accelerator matter manipulation absolutely should work even with your limitation. I just don't want to use it since i think kakine is a better example but anyway.
He reprogramed a brain and altered her memories and he had to be very careful to not fry her brain. I can give you the quote if you want but it is straightforward.
Matter Manipulation (Macro-Quantum; Rearranged Last Order's electrons in her brain.
Also i realized you didn't read this one for Space Manipulation:
All Dimensions Severing Spell: This is a spell unique to Curtana that enables the wielder to sever all whole number dimensions, of which 11 are confirmed to exist in Toaru, whether they are lower or higher by swinging the blade, thus cutting anything within a 20 meters range[2][3
Also from her fight with Accelerator:
A moment later, Curtana Second was swung down with the force of a lightning strike. The apparent distance between them did not matter. Not when that queen used her full power. That sword was an extreme spiritual item that fully unified the three factions and four regions of the United Kingdom and that could draw on a portion of Archangel Michael’s power while on UK land. If a qualified user released that power even for a moment, a swing of the sword would sever all dimensions at once and giant ruined materials would be created along the line of the slash. Yes, all dimensions.
“Curtana Second will take priority over all else and cut through all dimensions as long as it is in this country. I don’t fully understand that reflection of yours, but if I slice through the very coordinates at which the barrier exists, the damage gets through. Isn’t that right?”
That does not matter. Information manipulation is internal and should be resisted.
And Life force is a problem of it being internal but you rejecting it because of a limitation that does not exist. I don't know what else to say refer to XDragnoir or my previous comments on that limitation. If the author says it is internal then no other criteria matters. There are no more limitations.
By the way when you said you agreed with Zensum and he agreed with matter manip and Transmutation for Kakine. Only Absorption was left to discuss but i will put you on disagree on that for now i guess on all 3 of them until you clarify this.
I will start making a list of accepted and rejected resistances when i have a bit of time.
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Felience1
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Disagreed Resistances:
Telekinesis via Qiong Qi.
Vector Manipulation from Accelerator.
Agreed Resistances:
Darkness Manipulation from Niang-Niang shadow blades.
Paralysis Inducement from misaka or Niang-Niang shadow blades.
Radiation Manipulation from Aleister.
Soul Manipulation from Grimoires or Matthai Reese.
Illusion Manipulation from Aleister's Spiritual Tripping.
Probability Manipulation from Aleister's Spiritual Tripping.
Power Nullification from Fiamma fairy stake.
Statistics Reduction from Fiamma fairy stake.
Deconstruction from Fiamma fairy stake.
Blood Manipulation from Accelerator.
Bioelectricity Manipulation from Accelerator.
Mind Manipulation from Grimoires.
Fear Manipulation from Dainsleif.
Teleportation from sources like Kuroko.
Body Puppetry from Qliphah.
Possession from Aiwass or Elza or Qliphah.
Sin manipulation from Coronzon.
Poison Manipulation.
Biological Manipulation from Misaki or Alfar.
Water Manipulation via moisture absorption of Nepthys.
Pain Manipulation from Fiamma's Scarlet Stone of Pexjarva.
Acid Manipulation via Acid.
Perception Manipulation from Kihara Ransuu.
Explosion Manipulation and Ollerus and Aureolus.
Shockwave Manipulation from Ollerus.
Sleep Manipulation from Aureolus.
Memory Manipulation from Aureolus.
Madness Manipulation from Chimera.
Matter Manipulation from Accelerator.
Gravity Manipulation from Kakine.
Life Force Manipulation from Anna Sprengel.
Life Force Absorption from Nuada.
Death Manipulation from Proserpina.
Reality Warping from Aureolus. (when affecting her insides)
Still in debate:
Transmutation from Kakine.
Matter Absorption from Kakine.
Sound manipulation from four eyed dragon or Aureolus. (rejected becasuse it comes from the outside and travels)
Stamina Reduction from flame dragon. (only thing you said is see previous answer, can't find it)
Space Manipulation with Curtana.
Sealing from fiamma or Aleister.
Rejected but we will talk about this later:
Law Manipulation from Kazakiri. (it being and area should not matter. Affecting magicians internals should)
Conceptual Manipulation from Archetype Controller.
Microwave Attacks from Fran or Misaka. (rejected from coming from the outside)
Empathic Manipulation from Nepthys. (rejected from coming from the outside)
Vibration Manipulation from Nepthys. (rejected from coming from the outside)
Heat Manipulation from Aleister. (a big bang that spawns inside you is pretty hot)
Electricity Manipulation and EM waves from Misaka.
Corrosion inducement from Coronzon. (rejected from coming from the outside)
Existence Erasure from Coronzon's ceremony. (rejected for starting outside)
Information Manipulation from Uiharu or Kreutune. (rejected for starting outside even when it can affect non material beings.)
I will modify it after our talks continues. This is mainly to help me keep tabs on what's going on and for when this ends.
Telekinesis via Qiong Qi.
Vector Manipulation from Accelerator.
Agreed Resistances:
Darkness Manipulation from Niang-Niang shadow blades.
Paralysis Inducement from misaka or Niang-Niang shadow blades.
Radiation Manipulation from Aleister.
Soul Manipulation from Grimoires or Matthai Reese.
Illusion Manipulation from Aleister's Spiritual Tripping.
Probability Manipulation from Aleister's Spiritual Tripping.
Power Nullification from Fiamma fairy stake.
Statistics Reduction from Fiamma fairy stake.
Deconstruction from Fiamma fairy stake.
Blood Manipulation from Accelerator.
Bioelectricity Manipulation from Accelerator.
Mind Manipulation from Grimoires.
Fear Manipulation from Dainsleif.
Teleportation from sources like Kuroko.
Body Puppetry from Qliphah.
Possession from Aiwass or Elza or Qliphah.
Sin manipulation from Coronzon.
Poison Manipulation.
Biological Manipulation from Misaki or Alfar.
Water Manipulation via moisture absorption of Nepthys.
Pain Manipulation from Fiamma's Scarlet Stone of Pexjarva.
Acid Manipulation via Acid.
Perception Manipulation from Kihara Ransuu.
Explosion Manipulation and Ollerus and Aureolus.
Shockwave Manipulation from Ollerus.
Sleep Manipulation from Aureolus.
Memory Manipulation from Aureolus.
Madness Manipulation from Chimera.
Matter Manipulation from Accelerator.
Gravity Manipulation from Kakine.
Life Force Manipulation from Anna Sprengel.
Life Force Absorption from Nuada.
Death Manipulation from Proserpina.
Reality Warping from Aureolus. (when affecting her insides)
Still in debate:
Transmutation from Kakine.
Matter Absorption from Kakine.
Sound manipulation from four eyed dragon or Aureolus. (rejected becasuse it comes from the outside and travels)
Stamina Reduction from flame dragon. (only thing you said is see previous answer, can't find it)
Space Manipulation with Curtana.
Sealing from fiamma or Aleister.
Rejected but we will talk about this later:
Law Manipulation from Kazakiri. (it being and area should not matter. Affecting magicians internals should)
Conceptual Manipulation from Archetype Controller.
Microwave Attacks from Fran or Misaka. (rejected from coming from the outside)
Empathic Manipulation from Nepthys. (rejected from coming from the outside)
Vibration Manipulation from Nepthys. (rejected from coming from the outside)
Heat Manipulation from Aleister. (a big bang that spawns inside you is pretty hot)
Electricity Manipulation and EM waves from Misaka.
Corrosion inducement from Coronzon. (rejected from coming from the outside)
Existence Erasure from Coronzon's ceremony. (rejected for starting outside)
Information Manipulation from Uiharu or Kreutune. (rejected for starting outside even when it can affect non material beings.)
I will modify it after our talks continues. This is mainly to help me keep tabs on what's going on and for when this ends.
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Yes, because it's travellings towards then and then destroys the life force. It's a movement and destruction affect. I don't see it as being an internal only affect.
Sure I'll just drop it. Since I also know I'll at some point say something controversial again, I'll also drop the thread since I don't know enough about the verse to really warrant me sticking around.
Anyways, the punch affecting the life force can be resisted. Since the logic of it's an "if-then" clause rather than a "and" clause.
See above.
Sorry I missed it, I thought I included it but must have deleted it on accident when doing the Chimera comment. Like with the smells she'd resist the seeds affects since youd need to eat them.
Maybe? I'm not really sure since they're eating the outside body. Though it's seemingly considered two different types of consumption, so the life force absorption is probably fine resistance wise.
My interpretation of it for the same reason she wouldn't be immune to a sword stabbing her. If you disagree with it get another mod to give their view regarding it.
Because it's affecting a fundamental aspect that she's participating in and without an explicit feat on her end to see how that interaction would go, I don't think she'd qualify.
However, she would be immune to reality warping that's specifically targeting her insides since that's targeting her rather than said fundamental aspect.
Then she could resist the power since it's Phasing and then consuming stuff.
For your second point I didn't see her resisting for the same reason she wouldn't resist someone crushing her head. If it starts at her outsides and eats inwards it would bypass her resistance in my mind.
Yes, she'd be immune to that aspect of gravity manipulation.
That would count, yes. Since it's targeting things inside her body and trying to alter them.
How I'm reading it, is that it's a sword ability that let's you slice through anything by cutting into higher dimensions. I don't see her resisting this.
I don't see it that way. Information is a fundamental concept and not an internalized feature in my mind.
Felience1
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i have to go for some hours but i will say before i go. Curses travel towards people in toaru. It's movement and destruction. Resisted. Will make an argument later but your point of view doesn't work here. It contradicts itself.
Felience1
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Curses travel towards people in toaru. It's movement and destruction. Resisted. This is why i mean, that limitation does not exist in this resistances. It does not have to be internal only. The internal part will be resisted even if there is an external part. What do you want me to explain so that you understand that internal does not work like that here? Do you want a quote about a curse travelling?
You are both getting frustrated (understandably so). I apologize if i made you feel bad with something, not my intention at all. I don't mind at all if you say something incorrect or you don't have knowledge of the verse. I appreciate you helping and i will provide with the information you lack. But you are defending something that does not exist in the series. Her internal resistance does not care about travel or anything else. The only condition is if it affects her internals. If you need any explanation i will do so. For example the logic you put there of "if-then or and" is another limitation that does not exist at all. They are completely unfounded and does not work with the statements we have. I will try to explain it to the best of my ability but we need to use accurate and consistent criteria and not random limitations that have never been alluded in the series.
I will say it again, i don't mind you getting something wrong at all. I am happy if you try to understand our points and we all strive for the most accurate way of representing this. Please let me know any concerns you may have.
Even if it was the same effect does not make a difference but sure.
No problem at all.
Ok this is good, let's see where our differences are if any. She can indeed be stabbed with a sword. She can't have a magic sword apply any effect at all inside her. So i agree with your interpretation of her being slashed with a sword. Do you agree that that sword won't do anything at all inside her? Having her head crushed doesn't stop her from thinking or anything at all.
Now this i can address to. We have Aleister's curse that curses you and it affects you and makes sure that every action ends in failure. Isn't this a fundamental aspect also?
You are manipulating the fate of someone. There is also the curse that death manipulates you. Isn't that a fundamental aspect of her? Also she has this resistance already about fundamental aspects. Also something like soul manipulation that we agreed on before could be fundamental. This is also a limitation that i don't understand. Aren't curses very fundamental already?
Resistance's she already has:
-Resistance to Transcendents' abilities:
4. Fate Manipulation: (Cannot be affected by Vidhatri's ability to control the fate of the world)
5. Existence Erasure: (Cannot be erased by Vidhatri, who can erase people's existence by ommiting mentions of them.)
This is not for debate now since this if for the next thread but:
WoG in the Afterword of one of the volumes stating that the Transcendents would have been capable of surviving and killing Othinus
Othinus reality warped everyone away with phase manipulation (can explain if needed) and she could likely survive it since she is the leader of the Transcendents and leagues above them and even them could probably deal with that. We are not debating this now though. Just more context on her dealing with fundamental things. That is for another thread.
There is more to phase manipulation but i won't get to that.
The Aleister curse is here if you want the source:
Additionally, if someone targeted by this technique does not die through its effects, that person will essentially bear a curse saying that, from that point on, every choice they ever make will end in failure.[69]
Let me know if this changed your mind on this of you still think that "fundamental things" are a limitation, because we have 0 prove of that.
I am sorry but I am confused. So you agree with Matter absorption but not with the transmutation that affects cells? Or i am reading that wrong?
So you disagree with Kakine's matter manipulation? I am still lost regarding your opinion with kakine's stuff.
So a sword that cuts any coordinates withing 20m and used to cut her inside would not be resisted? She already can affect higher dimensions. If you want the scans i will pull them out.
I am not arguing that she resist a normal cut from the sword of course. I am talking only about the internal cuts.
I am sorry that this is talking so long again. Thanks for sticking around as much as you are.
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Damn, I disagree with pretty much every single thing that has been brought up here. The only resistance I'd agree to for her are those that have been directly stated or shown to be resisted (bacteria, bug, curses).
First off, the two quotes used to support Alice's internal damage resistance just sounds (at least to me) like Touma's thoughts on the matter being conveyed to us via the narrator, rather than the narrator's objective view of her abilities. The first quote from GT5 does not state anything definitive, it just tells us what seems to be happening. The narrator also uses multiple different words to assert uncertainty.
I'd also like to insist on the drowning fish analogy. A similar one was used prior in the volume during her encounter with Frillsand #G.
If we are to take these as objective truth from an omniscient narrator, this would indicate that the nature of her resistance comes from a different physiology, rather than an ability that automatically negates all internal damage. And given that we are not told what exactly makes her different in that regard, anything other than what has been stated/shown would be an unfounded assumption.
Also worth to note that "curses" mentioned in the first quote is referring to Frillsand's curse-like attack, rather than the magical curses used by magicians.
Now, onto the second quote.
Obviously, if you read just the bolded part, it sounds like a clear-cut situation, but within the context that comes both directly before and after, the whole things sounds a lot less certain. The narrator is recalling prior events that showcased Alice's powers, but again, is doing so from Touma's perspective. The quote refers to Touma's assumptions regarding Alice's abilities, not a conclusive observation from the narrator.
Second, Alice resisting every and all internal abilities is directly contradicted in the story, as we are told that, if used correctly, the Bologna Succubus's Cold Mistress can affect her. The spell works by replacing pleasure signals by pain. Sounds pretty internal to me.
Third, there are at least two anti-feats that I can think of : CRC crushing her head in GT8 and Alice being unsteady on her feet after clashing fists with Touma in GT10. Both are external attacks that caused internal damage which was not resisted, so a lot of the abilities listed in this thread have no reason to be added as resistance, even with a possibly rating.
She clearly didn't resist the internal damage from that, she literally died.
If she had resisted the internal damage caused by the clash, her legs would not be shaking. Also, pain is an internal thing, so why would her injured eye be closed if she's not feeling the pain?
So we have one anti-feat for abilities that directly target the insides, and two for external attacks that deal internal damage. So yeah, count me as disagree for pretty much everything except for bacteria, bugs and curses (specifically Frillsand's one, not the magical kind, as those are completely different).
First off, the two quotes used to support Alice's internal damage resistance just sounds (at least to me) like Touma's thoughts on the matter being conveyed to us via the narrator, rather than the narrator's objective view of her abilities. The first quote from GT5 does not state anything definitive, it just tells us what seems to be happening. The narrator also uses multiple different words to assert uncertainty.
- GT5 Chapter 3 Part 11
I'd also like to insist on the drowning fish analogy. A similar one was used prior in the volume during her encounter with Frillsand #G.
- GT5 Chapter 3 Part 7
If we are to take these as objective truth from an omniscient narrator, this would indicate that the nature of her resistance comes from a different physiology, rather than an ability that automatically negates all internal damage. And given that we are not told what exactly makes her different in that regard, anything other than what has been stated/shown would be an unfounded assumption.
Also worth to note that "curses" mentioned in the first quote is referring to Frillsand's curse-like attack, rather than the magical curses used by magicians.
Now, onto the second quote.
- GT7 Chapter 4 Part 7
Obviously, if you read just the bolded part, it sounds like a clear-cut situation, but within the context that comes both directly before and after, the whole things sounds a lot less certain. The narrator is recalling prior events that showcased Alice's powers, but again, is doing so from Touma's perspective. The quote refers to Touma's assumptions regarding Alice's abilities, not a conclusive observation from the narrator.
Second, Alice resisting every and all internal abilities is directly contradicted in the story, as we are told that, if used correctly, the Bologna Succubus's Cold Mistress can affect her. The spell works by replacing pleasure signals by pain. Sounds pretty internal to me.
- GT6 Chapter 2 Part 6
- GT7 Chapter 3 Part 1
Third, there are at least two anti-feats that I can think of : CRC crushing her head in GT8 and Alice being unsteady on her feet after clashing fists with Touma in GT10. Both are external attacks that caused internal damage which was not resisted, so a lot of the abilities listed in this thread have no reason to be added as resistance, even with a possibly rating.
- GT8 Epilogue
She clearly didn't resist the internal damage from that, she literally died.
- GT10 Chapter 4 Part 4
If she had resisted the internal damage caused by the clash, her legs would not be shaking. Also, pain is an internal thing, so why would her injured eye be closed if she's not feeling the pain?
So we have one anti-feat for abilities that directly target the insides, and two for external attacks that deal internal damage. So yeah, count me as disagree for pretty much everything except for bacteria, bugs and curses (specifically Frillsand's one, not the magical kind, as those are completely different).
Felience1
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I agree with that.
Thanks your your comment. Let's start:
First it has been directly stated that she resist everyone of these.
They indeed come for the narrator. Touma only says the vulture one, we talked about these earlier in the thread. And the wording is because until GT7 (i think) Kamachi did not gave us a direct statement on why things don't affect her. That's why is not definitive, keeping a character powers hidden until later.
I have always agreed that this is not powernull or anything like that. It comes from her physiology. That does not matter for what she resist. Of course we are not told yet what that physiology is. But we are directly told indeed what it does to internal damage. That's why we are adding that and not random things like her breathing in space or underwater or other physiology stuff guessing. So since we have the statement from the narrator we should index it.
Ok? we are explicitly told that the origin of the curse or it being scientific or magical does not matter at all in the GT7 explanation. I don't know why it matters that she resisted a scientific "curse" before.
It is as clear to me with the rest. The narrator recalls prior events from the narrators perspective. "Kamijou couldn't guess" it's when the uncertain part starts. Everything before are clear cut objective things.
For the second one:
First we are not adding resistance to that spell since it may be the only spell that ignores somehow the resistance.
Second you are ignoring that the narration clearly says it is not clear and just Bologna opinion. And another very important thing, The only spell with a chance of working. I see all of that as nothing more than supporting statements and was brought up earlier in the thread also.
"And if used correctly, it was supposedly the only spell with the possibility of rivalling Alice."
Third that spell has never worked on Alice.
Fourth the same spell was used on CRC that is weaker than Alice and has not resistance and we got a grimace once.
"My Cold Mistress spell will probably only work on him once."
Taking all of this into account this is not an anti-feat and this is more a supporting argument that anything else since the only thing it says is that it is the only spell that may work and it is even doubting that the narration.
How is crushing her head an internal effect? And we know she walked without head and fought without a problem without head after that.
She was under immense emotional distress because she knew the person most important to her was about to die (even be killed by her). Her legs could very well be unsteady because of that. The narration also said she was acting animalistic and that she had no longer human emotion anymore.
First she wanted to be killed so she let herself be attacked with a external attack like getting her head crushed from the outside.
"But frozen Alice did not react. She unsteadily viewed the man approaching her, but she did not run or hide."
"Alice Anotherbible. Never again would he see her overly normal and ordinary smile. Never again. Never, ever again!!! “I do not want the strongest power.” There was no scream. Alice Anotherbible did not react even as her skull was shattered. The rest of her remained upright, her small limbs dangling down."
Second she was later "alive" without head.
What internal damage is crushing her head with a hand? And died is a strong word for her knowing she does not need her head to think.
He may have powernulled something when in contact or emotional distress. Supernatural physiology can be affected by IB as has happened before. And let's say that body is not very natural. We don't know what caused her to be unsteady and there is a very good explanation on her being unsteady even without a punch delivered since she wants no harm done to Touma.
Also i had the eyelid muscle broken before IRL, trust me is more than pain. It may very well fail to open or the blood didn't let her see. I don't think there is a single anti-feat here and tons of characters can't affect her so there is clearly resistance to stuff there. If not she is getting instakilled by literally anyone, why is she not getting affected by any of the characters she fights against? So i disagree with your comment almost everywhere.
Thanks for your take on this though. Always good to have more opinions. Please point out anything you think is wrong with my comment.
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The first part doesn't change absolutely anything or invalidates absolutely anything, we literally have physiology pages around the wiki that give characters, whole groups most of the time, several resistances.
The 2nd is even worse, because literally no one is claiming that it automatically negates stuff at all, we're adding resistance to stuff not power null.
The text literally adds right after that her resistances apply to both magic and science alike, this is pointless.
These "anti-feats" aren't anti-feats to begin with because punches and the like were never even implied to be among her resistances given, well, they're what is counted as external damage that she has to resist with her durability:
"But her soft skin could not deflect the macroscopic external damage of the crickets."
That's not internal damage as it doesn't cause damage? That's an ability that causes pain without causing damage as it's literally just pain without a harmful source, just the pain signals themselves activating.
The novels don't ever even try to imply she doesn't have those resistances it, regardless if they originally came from Touma's view or the narration, either give a quote saying Touma was wrong or the narrator saying something along the lines of "in reality, she can't resist all forms of internal damage".
Also, we literally are told why her body is unique, she was literally remade with magic to be her own fictional version and ended up becoming a transcendent due to how good the experiment was.
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There's barely any ability that can be actually considered "internal only", for the 3rd time now, none of the examples the volumes used are internal only to begin with, poison gas and curses explicitly have to travel, bugs act as vectors, bacteria and viruses move around until the come in contact with you (and they can infect you from outside parts such as the eyes in some cases, won't make her any less resistant to them).
The damage has to be internal, it doesn't matter at all if the medium is traveling.
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Yes, and I don't think those statements are reliable. The entire things reads to me as the narrator relaying Touma's thoughts to us.
That doesn't sound like the perspective of an omniscient narrator.
Well, yeah, it was never used against her. Just like every other abilities you're trying to get her to resist.
I'm not sure how the spell working on CRC has any relevance here.
If anything, it supports my point that the narrator is only conveying Touma's thoughts on the situation. Especially since this is has also been directly contradicted by Kamachi. He literally told us that Alice was killed by Othinus, so Cold Mistress is obviously not the only spell that can work on her.
Crushing someone's head causes brain damage. She did walk around without a head later on, but we're explicitly told that she had to revive herself, and that CRC's attack did kill her.
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Right, and I would imagine that those pages have more justification than just "built different". Because that's all we know about Alice's constitution. Her being remade from magic doesn't tell us anything regarding what makes her internally different.
The way y'all are arguing makes it sound like all instances of damage simply vanish as soon as it reaches "inside" her.
The entire point of my post was to show that I don't believe the narrator to be an accurate source of information in this instance.
Also, wrong quote, you're talking about the GT7 one. Not that it matters though.
You're arguing that the internal damage caused by an external attack is resisted. The two quote literally contradict this. In the first case, CRC crushed her head (external attack) and Alice suffered brain damage (internal damage) that killed her.
In the second case, she clashed fists with Touma (external attack) which caused some kind of internal damage to make her legs shake.
So Fiamma's pain manipulation counts as internal damage, but not Bologna's? That's convenient.
The statements were contradicted by having Alice directly suffer internal damage and having Cold Mistress be named as a weakness multiple times.
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Back. I took a cursory look at last few posts and have some comments.
=================================================================================================================
Resistance to Transcendents' abilities was't actually agreed on in the previous thread, we agreed her just having the Transcendents' abilities. But this is also irrelevant to the conversation as thats an entirely different reasoning anyways.
This argumentation line and reasoning on Othinus' Phase Manipulation has absolutely nothing to do with this internal damage case thread so there’s no point in bringing it up.
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We know a bit about Misaki's mind reading/control mechanics, which do involve moisture/biological manipulation and this quote does indicate it would work on Alice. Per HT's comment what would deter Misaki is not some resistance to internal damage, but what Misaki would read from Alice's mind would be too much for her.
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- I’m curious about what the criteria is for placing abilities as Agreed/Disagreed… etc? I noticed some abilities in Agreed are things I agreed on and Qaws didn’t for example EM Waves from Misaka.
- I don’t think we discussed Soul Manipulation from High Priest and I believe what we have on profile for SoG Alesiter isn't an attack, it would just be Grimoires.
- The Pope doesn't have Sealing on profile because it's essentially glorified Soul Manipulation.
- Was there a Teleportation consensus or did Qaws comment on it?
- Biological Manipulation from Misaki doesn’t make sense as her power can work on Alice per my previous. (I'll talk more about this below somewhere.)
- Life Force Manipulation, Anna Sprengel isn't destroying the lifeforce so destruction doesn't make sense.
- He should, but now Izzard doesn't have Explosion Manipulation in his abilities section.
- I have qualms about how quotes are being presented so I’ll add my 2c on that to Qaws (If he still even wants to assess this.)
As your assessing these quotes with an "if and then" vs "Do X" criteria consider this:
The attack origin is incomprehensible as the attack is inexplicable. We're already at possibly internal point, so partial resistance mean limited resistance right?
I think you're mixing the lore description and their actual function. The bugs move to the gap between silver arm prosthetic sap and his lifeforce (whats happening) and the bugs feasted on divine flesh (lore) are the exact same thing not two different types.
I agree another mod's assessment of the quotes would be helpful since this is a big ask for someone without any context.
I think you're confused since multiple different feat instances are being showed to you at once. "he inserts his matter making it intangible" is not happening in the novel text. There's no phasing occurring in the absorption instance like you said above but there is phasing in the manga transmutation instance.
This is just your normal gravity acting on a character ability. She is already bleeding because she was stabbed by a Dark Matter wing in the stomach causing the blood "to start spreading terribly fast" and then is "trampled" by something invisible over her (gravity) which is then said "the dark red on her, under pressure, started to expand a lot more quickly", which means she's bleeding even more. Then he increases the pressure and she bleeds more."pressure from the inside" is not a thing stated in the text.
Kakine Teitoku’s Dark Matter attacked, putting an end to Accelerator’s train of thought. He hadn’t been the target.
Yomikawa Aiho’s eyes opened wide with shock. Then she slowly looked down at herself.The tip of one of those unknown white wings was sticking through her gut like a sword.Her green jersey was stained red with blood. Already red, and it didn’t take much timefor it to start spreading terribly fast.
Yomikawa tried to say something. But her body wavered, and she fell to the asphalt without resistance.
Accelerator watched.
Beyond where Yomikawa Aiho fell was a single figure. It was Kakine Teitoku, whoshould have been unconscious.
On his back were six wings.
What had happened didn’t bear any explanation.
The sharp feather thrust through the woman quickly removed itself.
[...]
Namely, to Yomikawa Aiho, crumpled on the ground.“St...op.”
“I can’t hear you!”
He identified a grinding noise. He didn’t know what had happened. Kakine hadn’ttouched Yomikawa, but something invisible trampled over her. Her body twitched. Thedark red on her, under pressure, started to expand a lot more quickly.
“Stop!!”
“I said I can’t ******* hear you!!”
Kakine’s roar drowned out Accelerator’s words.
“Don’t let that bitch decide things, idiot! Why the **** are you trying to resolve thingsthrough talking, villain?! That’s not what we are. That’s not how we do things and youknow it!!”
Kakine’s ability further increased in pressure.
Now, not only her side but her mouth began to drip with viscous red fluid.
Yomikawa Aiho’s eyes opened wide with shock. Then she slowly looked down at herself.The tip of one of those unknown white wings was sticking through her gut like a sword.Her green jersey was stained red with blood. Already red, and it didn’t take much timefor it to start spreading terribly fast.
Yomikawa tried to say something. But her body wavered, and she fell to the asphalt without resistance.
Accelerator watched.
Beyond where Yomikawa Aiho fell was a single figure. It was Kakine Teitoku, whoshould have been unconscious.
On his back were six wings.
What had happened didn’t bear any explanation.
The sharp feather thrust through the woman quickly removed itself.
[...]
Namely, to Yomikawa Aiho, crumpled on the ground.“St...op.”
“I can’t hear you!”
He identified a grinding noise. He didn’t know what had happened. Kakine hadn’ttouched Yomikawa, but something invisible trampled over her. Her body twitched. Thedark red on her, under pressure, started to expand a lot more quickly.
“Stop!!”
“I said I can’t ******* hear you!!”
Kakine’s roar drowned out Accelerator’s words.
“Don’t let that bitch decide things, idiot! Why the **** are you trying to resolve thingsthrough talking, villain?! That’s not what we are. That’s not how we do things and youknow it!!”
Kakine’s ability further increased in pressure.
Now, not only her side but her mouth began to drip with viscous red fluid.
Appealing to mechanics doesn't make sense here because the word curse is in the text is the only reason this is there, for her flat curse resistance. If that wasn’t there this wouldn’t count as “whether an event is likely to occur to someone" or "how a choice ends/destiny" is not internal damage.
Resistance to Transcendents' abilities was't actually agreed on in the previous thread, we agreed her just having the Transcendents' abilities. But this is also irrelevant to the conversation as thats an entirely different reasoning anyways.
This argumentation line and reasoning on Othinus' Phase Manipulation has absolutely nothing to do with this internal damage case thread so there’s no point in bringing it up.
The Curtanas do not "remote" cut the coordinate the person chooses... Thats not a thing. 20m is her dimension cutter slash range for dimensional debris appearing that extends from the sword. She can't spawn anything in internally by choosing those coordinates without actually swinging at those coordinates like you would a sword.
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I understand where Guntish is coming from with their post and I agree with some of the points they bring up that call into question some of these resistances. We also never finished talking on this point and quote:
In Shibuya, the Bologna Succubus had said he was the only person capable of controlling
Alice, but was that really true?
“I wouldn’t do that if I were you.”
That line stuck with him.
The gloomy young butler’s words would not leave Kamijou’s mind.
Strangely, he had trouble remembering who the young man had been speaking to.
Alice herself had looked confused. He was pretty sure she had spread her arms to welcome them.
However...
“Peeking inside this girl’s mind will only trap you in a psychedelic world. Alice’s worldis like a bottomless pit that can bring only tragedy to those who experience it.”
Alice, but was that really true?
“I wouldn’t do that if I were you.”
That line stuck with him.
The gloomy young butler’s words would not leave Kamijou’s mind.
Strangely, he had trouble remembering who the young man had been speaking to.
Alice herself had looked confused. He was pretty sure she had spread her arms to welcome them.
However...
“Peeking inside this girl’s mind will only trap you in a psychedelic world. Alice’s worldis like a bottomless pit that can bring only tragedy to those who experience it.”
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That's not what we really mean by travel. By movement and destruction he means the specific ability effect/damage we're assessing moves to the outside, affects/damages the outside and then affects/damages the inside. The text delineates between both so it means internal damage in this way: (Poison Gas that doesn't cause external damage but damages insides once breathed in), (Bugs that move into the body and then cause an effect like the parasite variety of insect that enter and cause disease or physically eat away in the body), (Curses that target or move into the body and then the effect of the curse starts (like the scientific curse used in the example)), Bacteria, Viruses etc. Additionally not that this matters, but that quote is not saying all curses in Toaru travel its just saying there are curses that are traveling. For example, the cursed jewel that kills anyone who touches it and arguably some "infection" curses don't travel. Bugs are vaguely counted as both types of damage. We know the physical damage of the bugs can effect her externally. And we have examples of external physical attacks that can damage her insides (CRC, Touma). So then we reach the main disconnect with this sentiment is only damage location is covered in the quotes, not damage type. This distinction I've seen trying to be made with "damage type" (physical vs special hax side effects) is just not supported by the quotes. The only distinction made is damage location (internal/external). With that, some type of criteria has to be made to reconcile all this which is why Qaws has that stance.
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This series continues to be a meme.
It's all out free-for-all in here
It's all out free-for-all in here
Felience1
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Lets answer those:
The criteria is Qawsed passing them or not. I put the ones you accepted and them the ones Qawsed accepted, then i removed the ones he didn't agree with anymore. I forgot that one. My bad.
Soul manipulation is soul manipulation, i don't remember if we discussed that one but we have a few of them more. And what do you mean about Aleister? He destroyed the spheres or the paths (don't remember which) of Qliphah and killed her. If you want me to remove the High Priest one and put any other example but it is the same with all of them. It is internal anyways.
Wow i didn't expect sealing someone in that weird thing to not be Sealing here. Will ask Qawsed about other ones then.
there.
I read that as attempting anything will trap you, not what you argue below. I don't think that implies at all that it works.
Sure, there is no difference in disrupting or destructing it, it is as internal anyways but since that was the one Qawsed agreed with and not the others that is more accurate so makes sense.
Is a use of reality warping. But he should have it anyways. Will add that to the list in the Toaru thread.
Well, thanks a lot for that. I made tons of mistakes so i apologize.
Where does this limitation come from and where has this even been hinted about.
I mean the resistance is getting added from Aureolus anyways. The attack spawns everywhere at once. There should be no limited. She resist the internal part, Not the rest. All of this resistances have that limited already.
She is inmune to bugs. Lifeforce is internal. The 2 effect weird limitation does not exist. This is clear cut.
I tried. I am giving every bit of context i can and Qawsed asks for. And i don't think we need that much context for this honestly. The quote is straightforward and i am giving every bit of info of the abilities. Qawsed can always ask for more and i will do my best. The several mods i contacted were not interested but feel free to try. But if other mod agrees with more or less things that Qawsed now we need a third one to break tie. This won't ever end.
I don't understand what you are trying to say. We both agree he can phase. Not that i think is relevant for this.
Pressure from the outside stops bleeding. From the inside lets out more blood. It says that she bleeds more and more.
Disagree. It is a internal power since it is a curse and it sure can damage someone.
I am not adding resistance to every Trascendent ability. This has nothing to do with that. And they can't affect her since it has been stated that they can't stop her.
I am adding internal abilities and these are.
Context. I said that i am not adding that.
This is a spell unique to Curtana that enables the wielder to sever all whole number dimensions, of which 11 are confirmed to exist in Toaru, whether they are lower or higher by swinging the blade, thus cutting anything within a 20 meters range.
Read the scan above, Touma can negate the ranged slice but not the debris that comes after that.
NT22R:
"I don’t fully understand that reflection of yours, but if I slice through the very coordinates at which the barrier exists, the damage gets through. Isn’t that right?"
It doesn't work, if she tries she goes crazy.
The criteria is it affects the inside or not. That's all. No such limitation as timing or 2 separate effect matters. Insects can infect you while they dig into your skin. You are saying that is not resisted because is the same effect? The punch that disrupts lifeforce that he rejected at the start. Why? If the location is internal of the lifeforce. What you are arguing is not Qawsed stance at all. And i have never cared about damage type i don't know what you are talking about. Is internal or not. That's all.
Will try to answer GunTish soon but i don't have much time this days. Sorry for the delays.
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Having read this entire thread, I have.... serious questions on the thought process going into it.
Alice doesn't suddenly become immune to something just because it passes the skin barrier. Her physical body barely matters with what she can do, but her body still takes the effects from them they just don't bother her.
She's not 'resisting' a bullet if it shot into her through her skin and is suddenly lodged in her chest- just like she's not immune to bugs just cause they ate through her skin and are now eating her lungs. Her body is still taking the damage and effects. It just literally doesn't bother her cause the body isn't really part of who she is, it's a stand in.
Also like she blatantly takes internal damage from physical strikes like touma's punches, so like the idea in general that once it passes the skin it no longer bothers her or she's suddenly resisting it is ?????
Also curtana doesn't have range attacks with the cuts, if you have curtana you can't cut into academy city from Britain. You cut out with the sword and it has at most a 20 meter range with the dimension slice or whatever it's called attack.
The quote your using to explain the coordinated cut is saying that if they cut where accelerators barrier starts it will get through. Not 'if I stand 40 feet away I can cut through your barrier by specifically targeting it'
Alice doesn't suddenly become immune to something just because it passes the skin barrier. Her physical body barely matters with what she can do, but her body still takes the effects from them they just don't bother her.
She's not 'resisting' a bullet if it shot into her through her skin and is suddenly lodged in her chest- just like she's not immune to bugs just cause they ate through her skin and are now eating her lungs. Her body is still taking the damage and effects. It just literally doesn't bother her cause the body isn't really part of who she is, it's a stand in.
Also like she blatantly takes internal damage from physical strikes like touma's punches, so like the idea in general that once it passes the skin it no longer bothers her or she's suddenly resisting it is ?????
Also curtana doesn't have range attacks with the cuts, if you have curtana you can't cut into academy city from Britain. You cut out with the sword and it has at most a 20 meter range with the dimension slice or whatever it's called attack.
The quote your using to explain the coordinated cut is saying that if they cut where accelerators barrier starts it will get through. Not 'if I stand 40 feet away I can cut through your barrier by specifically targeting it'
