To Aru Confusion

[JBennett]

This is just me stateing my opinion but wasn't IB 2-C because it can desstroy Gungnir which can destroy all of reality?

Well that's all I wanted to say.

 

[LazyHunter]

IB's higher stat was put at that level prior to the Magic Gods upgrade for destroying Gungnir, being able to undo phase shifts and for being the counterpart to WR.

He would also have the feat of negating Curtana Original's slashes.

But IB has also struggled with planet level and weaker stuff numerous times, and it has also been harmed by much weaker attacks like Index's Dragon Breath or Aureolus Dummy's Limen Magna dart. It's inconsistent.

 

[JBennett]

Isn't IB limit by 'continues' magic rather then 'heavy' magic. Dragon Breath was a spell that continuesly fired at a rate faster then IB could destroy it which is why it was able to supress IB, its the same princible why innocentins was able to survive. Also it wasn't IB that was harmed it was Touma arm that was damage againts Dragon's breath, about Limen Magna dart I honestly don't remember much about it.

 

[Malox1696]

Isn't IB limit by 'continues' magic rather then 'heavy' magic. Dragon Breath was a spell that continuesly fired at a rate faster then IB could destroy it which is why it was able to supress IB, its the same princible why innocentins was able to survive. Also it wasn't IB that was harmed it was Touma arm that was damage againts Dragon's breath, about Limen Magna dart I honestly don't remember much about it.

yes but touma hand almost broke during the fight

 

[Malox1696]

But IB has also struggled with planet level and weaker stuff numerous times, and it has also been harmed by much weaker attacks like Index's Dragon Breath or Aureolus Dummy's Limen Magna dart. It's inconsistent.

it's not as inconsistent as you think, the dart was not a magical toll it was just imbuded with spell so it still retained the physical nature of it and so it pierced his hand, then after contact with the core of the other spell (the one that turns in to gold) it got destroyed , an example is the fight with acqua when he touched his mace (a normal mace just imbuded with magic)

 

[LazyHunter]

@JBennet

No, it was IB that was damaged by Dragon's Breath.

@Malox1696

The Limen Magna was explicitly a magic construct, that's why it broke like other magic constructs do when IB touches them. We literally see Auerolus make new ones with magic after they are destroyed.

 

[VoidGoji]

Shouldn't we add limited reality warping/quantum reality + probability manipulation to normal espers? Since their powers are actually that

 

[LazyHunter]

I don't think so, it's actually just the underlying mechanics of their abilities, the important thing is what they actual results of their abilities are and they can't use those mechanics in combat. It would be like giving Life Manipulation to all Toaru magicians just because they process their own life force into mana to cast magic.

 

[JBennett]

IB is not a sepreat physical object that Touma has, its a power that resides within Touma's right hand correct? The hand is no different from any ordinary right hand it can be damage.

"The sound of the impact was like a piece of meat being pressed against a hot metal sheet. However, there was no pain. And no heat. Like it was a pillar of water coming from a fire hose that was being repelled by a clear wall, the pillar of light scattered in every direction when it struck Kamijou's right hand. Even so, the pillar of light itself was not completely negated. Just like with Stiyl's Innocentius, it seemed to have no end no matter how often he negated it.' His feet planted on the tatami mats were pushed slowly backwards and his right hand felt like it would be blown away by the great pressure.

(No…That isn't…what this is…!!)

Kamijou grabbed his right wrist with his empty left hand. He felt a stinging pain i the palm of his right hand. The magic was eating into it. His right hand could not deal with it fast enough, so the pillar of light was approaching millimeter by millimeter.

(This isn't just a large mass! Each individual piece of light is something different!!).....

An unpleasant noise came from his right wrist as he continued to force it against the pillar of light." (volume 1 page 179 &181)

IB does have limitations but its not about strength but its cancelation speed and despit it's great strength it's still resides within a normal human hand which means if the speed is delt with then the hand itself can be damage by the spell.

 

[LazyHunter]

IB is on Touma's right hand. If his right hand is damaged, IB is being damaged. We literally see a few lines after that how it hurts Touma's hand, a feat only replicated by Gungnir and Limen Magna, IIRC.

A crack ran down the fingernail of his right index finger and red blood flowed out.

Even so, Kamijou did not give up.

"You've always, always wanted to be the heroes, right!? You wanted to become the kind of magicians you find in picture books and movies that risk their lives to save the girl, right!? Then this isn't anywhere near over!! It hasn't even begun!! Don't fall into despair just because the prologue dragged on a bit too long!!"

The magicians' voices were silenced.

Kamijou would not give up. What did he look like in the magicians' eyes?

"If you stretch out your hand, you can reach it! Just do it already, magicians!"

An odd cracking noise came from Kamijou's right pinky.

When he realized the finger was bent ― broken ― at an unnatural angle, the pillar of light attacked with tremendous force and finally knocked Kamijou's right hand away.

His hand was knocked a good ways back.

Cancelation speed is not a good answer to that when we've seen him stop much more powerful stuff without the hand being hurt at all, like Aqua's super mace drop or Fiamma's/Aiwass' attacks.

IB is inconsistent, which is why I think that currently it should not be scaled to the highest feats. If more feats make the higher ends more consistent it'll likely be upgraded, but for now, there's no reason to do so.

 

[JBennett]

Just because IB is in Touma's hand doesn't mean its stronger then a normal hand, IB doesn't make his hand stronger or more resilient it's still a human hand, the fact that it can still be damage is proof. The fact that Touma's arm was damaged after punching Elis the golam is proof, even though the magic that formed Ellis was canciled he still punched a golam of rock( or whatever it was made of) and his hand was damage because he punched what was bassicaly a wall of rock or stone.

I admit that I don't have a lot of knowledg on the later part of OT and most of NT, but from what I have been able to understand most of the attacks that Touma can't complelty cancel still have the force or whieght behind it because the spell is still continueing, so that force it had is still present which can still be enough to damage a human body, which Touma is including his hand.

For the example you gave I can't give you a satisfied answer, it be best if you asked someone else, I admit I don't have great knowledge on this seires I can only give what I know and understand.

just to make this clear I'm not doing this to make Touma have a High 1-C tier.

 

[Malox1696]

@JBennet
No, it was IB that was damaged by Dragon's Breath.

@Malox1696

The Limen Magna was explicitly a magic construct, that's why it broke like other magic constructs do when IB touches them. We literally see Auerolus make new ones with magic after they are destroyed.

yea but touma did not destroy every golden construct on touch (even whe he started negating the dummy itself it took time, cause the negation needs to get to the source) Edit:actually taking from nt 9 he did not destroy gungunir instantly ,he broke his finger cause it took time to the negate the magical force pushing the spear and the spear did not get instantly destroyed, while the arrow head (or whatever it was) was pushed by a normal force (he launched it) so the force passed but IB took time to negate the core of the spell destroying the object

 

[Malox1696]

IB is on Touma's right hand. If his right hand is damaged, IB is being damaged. We literally see a few lines after that how it hurts Touma's hand, a feat only replicated by Gungnir and Limen Magna, IIRC.
A crack ran down the fingernail of his right index finger and red blood flowed out.

Even so, Kamijou did not give up.

"You've always, always wanted to be the heroes, right!? You wanted to become the kind of magicians you find in picture books and movies that risk their lives to save the girl, right!? Then this isn't anywhere near over!! It hasn't even begun!! Don't fall into despair just because the prologue dragged on a bit too long!!"

The magicians' voices were silenced.

Kamijou would not give up. What did he look like in the magicians' eyes?

"If you stretch out your hand, you can reach it! Just do it already, magicians!"

An odd cracking noise came from Kamijou's right pinky.

When he realized the finger was bent ― broken ― at an unnatural angle, the pillar of light attacked with tremendous force and finally knocked Kamijou's right hand away.

His hand was knocked a good ways back.

Cancelation speed is not a good answer to that when we've seen him stop much more powerful stuff without the hand being hurt at all, like Aqua's super mace drop or Fiamma's/Aiwass' attacks.

IB is inconsistent, which is why I think that currently it should not be scaled to the highest feats. If more feats make the higher ends more consistent it'll likely be upgraded, but for now, there's no reason to do so.

this qoute should explain :

Kamijou grabbed his right wrist with his empty left hand. He felt a stinging pain i the palm of his right hand. The magic was eating into it. His right hand could not deal with it fast enough, so the pillar of light was approaching millimeter by millimeter.

(This isn't just a large mass! Each individual piece of light is something different!!).....


IB negate what it touches but it seems the dragon breath is firing different type of energy at different interval (imagine an hose firing water and oil in interval) he negate one one type but another come right away making it impossibile to negate the source of the spell as it get cut off every time, and if u ask your self what are the odds that index used a spell to counter IB you should know that pendex always use the most optimal attack and the grimore might have some information on IB