TLoZ: Triforce upgrade

[The_real_cal_howard]

This one's actually AP.

I was just informed by Ever that with the Temple of Time being at the center of the Sacred Realm, making the Earth-Sun distance only a portion, it would garner the same result as Cell's 4-B calc.

So that would put all Full Triforce users (plus Demise, Hylia, & FSA!Vaati, who scale to it) at around 1 kilofoe, or 4-B.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I thought Demise and Hylia didn't scale to the Triforce?

I agree wither way, at least.

 

[Phoenix821]

4-B LOZ Hallelujah.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Oh, and since this is a Triforce thread, I can bring this up.

The Triforce should have fate manipulation given that sh*t at the end of Wind Waker.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Oh, and since this is a Triforce thread, I can bring this up.
The Triforce should have fate manipulation given that sh*t at the end of Wind Waker.

What happened that constitutes Fate Manipulation?

 

[Dust_Collector]

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The one who touches it will have his any wish granted…


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Isn't that what you said, Ganondorf!


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Gods of the Triforce, this is my wish!


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A future! Give these children a future full of hope!


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Erase Hyrule, the land of the past. Give these children a bright future!!


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Now, let our destiny come to an end… Ganondorf, sink with Hyrule!!!


This is what Cal is referring to regarding Fate Manipulation, the King of Hyrules wish upon the Triforce. Anyway I agree with the 4-B upgrade.

 

[Warren_Valion]

It sounds, to me anyway, that his wish is for the destruction of Hyrule, Himself, and Ganondorf.

The "future! Give these children a future full of hope!" sounds like flowery language of what would happen when "the land of the past", Hyrule, is "erased".

Not that it literally alters there futures.

 

[Schnee_One]

I agree with Link vs Sidious.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So, how many more do I need to consitute an upgrade?

 

[The_Everlasting]

2-3, depending on if Warren agrees.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I agree (I mean, I'll do my own thread about 3-A TF in a couple of weeks). But Demise and Hylia don't scale. I don't know why Vaati's feat isn't considered an outlier, but if it's not considered as such by the wiki, then he scales.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Warren seems to only have doubts of the fate manipulation, though given that WW!Link & Tetra find and become the founders of New Hyrule, the "give these children a new future" thing doesn't sound like hyperbole to me, especially given that whether or not it's hyperbolic, that's what the Triforce heard and would've granted.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I also agree about giving fate manip to TF. What about that old statement I found that should gove the TF concept manip?

The "can change the essence of all things" in the jap intro of SS.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Essence is not concept without proof.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Keep in mind that the thread is primarily about 4-B, so discuss 4-B.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I might just be stupid, but I don't really get why the Temple of Time's location in The Sacred Realm changes its AP.

Like isn't it High 4-C because it should be stronger than Majora and Demise, both who made alternate pocket universes with a sun in them, and because it causally warped The Sacred Realm into The Dark World, which I think also has a sun it?

Like what does distance have anything to do with warping a pocket realities with a sun? Is it saying that the pocket realities is bigger than originally thought, or is it something else?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Because the destruction is centered on the planet, so you need enough energy to still destroy the sun via inverse square law.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Seems good to me.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Because the destruction is centered on the planet, so you need enough energy to still destroy the sun via inverse square law.

I see...

Which game is this from again?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I might just be stupid, but I don't really get why the Temple of Time's location in The Sacred Realm changes its AP.

Like isn't it High 4-C because it should be stronger than Majora and Demise, both who made alternate pocket universes with a sun in them, and because it causally warped The Sacred Realm into The Dark World, which I think also has a sun it?

Like what does distance have anything to do with warping a pocket realities with a sun? Is it saying that the pocket realities is bigger than originally thought, or is it something else?

Yes. That.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Also, I provided the scans in the other thread.

 

[Schnee_One]

I agree with Link vs Sidious.

I want a response

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You're right, it was derailing. While I (along with everyone else on that thread) agree with the MS-TF duality thing they got going, I don't think that was a good example, and I don't wanna discuss that here. So removing that comment. Don't think lesser of me for that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I want a response

Unless bloodlusted, in which it becomes inconclusive due to lolTriforce vs lolSith, mindhax central easily, especially given that Sidious won when they were the same tier before.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Nah, do as you want.

You were the one that stated derailing ovo

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I agree with this.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I thought Demise and Hylia didn't scale to the Triforce?

Well, yes and no. Demise wants the Triforce for himself, and Hylia can't use it. But they do scale. Demise fights a True Force empowered Link, and Hylia states (in the JP version, and I'm paraphrasing) that the reasons that the GGs gave the Triforce to mortals and why gods can't use it is so the mortals can be on the level of the gods (obviously not the GG, but gods like Hylia).

 

[The_Everlasting]

I thought Link left the Triforce somewhere when he went to face Demise.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Either way, there's enough approval here.

Man, remember when Zelda being 5-B was controversial? Lol.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

>Left the Triforce

One does not simply leave the Triforce somewhere while they go fight an ultra powerful evil overlord.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I was told that's what happened, lol.

 

[Theglassman12]

I mean, he kinda did. He didn't show the triforce being in his hand, and not to mention that in the post credit scene he still left it there.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Either way, there's enough approval here.

Man, remember when Zelda being 5-B was controversial? Lol.

Oh, I remember that greatly.

Right afterwards, I got Demise upgraded, and then Azzy had the same thing happen to Majora, and then I compromised with the Triforce feat, and then you debunked Demise's feat, and now we're here ovo.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Link only wished for Demise's elimination, not an amp to himself. And unless he took the TF and travelled back in time (wich is probably impossible as we see in the timeline split), Demise doesn't scale.

Where? I'm fairly sure the reason was to give mortals hope and to give them a show about mortals killing each other in countless wars in the free time, not to bring them to the level of gods.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Man, remember when Zelda being 5-B was controversial? Lol.

Even High 6-A Zelda was controversial, but man it's funny how Ganondorf now with just a single piece of the Triforce is currently rated signifcally higher than what he was with the full Triforce back in 2016.

 

[Dark649]

I know it's unrelated, but i'd like to bring that Breath of the Wild Dark Beast Ganon does not scale to Demise, it's a heavy translation error .

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You're right. If anything, BotW!Ganon is his weakest incarnation not counting Oracle!Ganon (funny enough, they even have a lot in common, as they're both incomplete resurrections, they're both mindless berserkers, and they're both in their pig form).

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Dust. A casual Ganondorf at that.

@Everyone. Anywho, upgrading True Force holders + FSA!Vaati. We'll discuss the rest later.

Still think Demise and Hylia scale though. Even if everything gets debunked, it's heavily implied that Demise is the strongest villain in the series thus far, which'd put him higher than FSA!Vaati (who doesn't have the TF, but fights a full TF Link)

Also, tfw Cell, Lumine, and The Triforce all have a feat that's pretty much the same thing lol

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also, I'm keeping the "At least" for the Triforce. Not because of muh "It's mere existence sustains the Sacred Realm" but because this is the smallest we can make it out to be, and there's some, but not enough evidence that it could be a much bigger size.

 

[Dark649]

We don't use the term at least 4-B as i remember, just 4-B [which has a massive gap to 4-A].