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Timeline Destruction Issues & Concerns

This is more of a rarity, but aren’t there cosmologies where timelines are infinitely long?

And by that, I don’t mean there’s a 2-A amount of them, but rather the timelines in and of themselves are infinite from the past to the future?
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
This is more of a rarity, but aren’t there cosmologies where timelines are infinitely long?

And by that, I don’t mean there’s a 2-A amount of them, but rather the timelines in and of themselves are infinite from the past to the future?
Click to expand...
That's not really rare, a lot of verse just assume the past and future go on and on and on.
 
Yeah although Kukui I kinda stepped down from the infinitely long timeline argument in Ben 10, it doesn’t make any sense and will actually lead to inflated results most likely (I’ll elaborate in the cosmology blog) and I can’t really think of any other verses where this is the case. But I don’t think the timeline being infinite changes much really unless you get into quantum mechanics.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
no no I don’t mean time inside a timeline infinitely grows but rather it’s outright infinite.
Click to expand...
That sound like a weird difference, like from a timeline's point of view, the future already exist so if the future is just infinit, then it's infinit, no?

Not sure if I understand honestly.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I’m not sure how smaller scale space-times being inside the universes are supposed to prove anything in regards to this, especially when they’re small.
Click to expand...
It proves exactly what it says. The note in Zeno's page pretty much explains it completely. Low 2-C is given to anybody who is able to destroy a universe-sized space time continuum. Zeno can destroy multiple universe-sized space-time continuums thus he is 2-C. Them being part of an even bigger timeline doesn't disprove anything because bigger space-time continuums can contain smaller space-time continuums.
 
AKM sama said:
Them being part of an even bigger timeline doesn't disprove anything because bigger space-time continuums can contain smaller space-time continuums.
Click to expand...
Yes but...this is the part that I’m not quite seeing why it should matter.

If those smaller space-times were just smaller universes, then I would see the point. However, those smaller scale space-time continuum’s aren’t universes in the first place, they’re pocket dimensions.

This makes a pretty decent leap in logic. Since your assuming that pocket dimensions can exist inside a universe, actual universes can exist inside other universes. And that isn’t quite the same thing.
 
Calling them pocket dimensions doesn't change what they are at the core. They are space-time continuums of a certain size. And they can exist inside a space-time continuum of a bigger size.

Similarly, calling them universes doesn't change what they are at the core. They are space-time continuums of a certain size. And they can exist inside a space-time continuum of a bigger size.
 
I mean, you would need to proof the Room of Spirit and Time is universe sized for that analogy to work. I wouldn't doubt it considering it is def immensely huge, but it's something that needs to be proved rather than assumed.
 
Ionliosite said:
I mean, you would need to proof the Room of Spirit and Time is universe sized for that analogy to work. I wouldn't doubt it considering it is def immensely huge, but it's something that needs to be proved rather than assumed.
Click to expand...
Why??? What does size have to do with time and space?
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
Why??? What does size have to do with time and space?
Click to expand...
As AKM said: "Low 2-C is given to anybody who is able to destroy a universe-sized space time continuum. Zeno can destroy multiple universe-sized space-time continuums thus he is 2-C."
 
Currently, we are talking about time and space, time travel and why having a space time within a space time is possible.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
Currently, we are talking about time and space, time travel and why having a space time within a space time is possible.
Click to expand...
Having a space-time within another space-time is technically possible via pocket dimensions, which is what Kukui pointed out, but pocket dimensions aren't universe-sized by default, so those wouldn't count for 2-C.
 
Dude I’m not saying that destroying a STC with a pocket dimension inside makes you 2-C. That’s stupid. I’m just saying, it’s possible to have a space time within a space time, no matter the size. That’s literally the case with any verse that has infinite 2-A multiverses.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
I’m just saying, it’s possible to have a space time within a space time, no matter the size.
Click to expand...
It's technically not possible due to how pocket dimensions work, but it's effectively the same effect. Anyway, that's not relevant to the point.
 
Ionliosite said:
It's technically not possible due to how pocket dimensions work, but it's effectively the same effect. Anyway, that's not relevant to the point.
Click to expand...
Not relevant? We’re literally talking about 12 universal time spaces existing in a bigger timeline, so it’s very relevant. Why is it so hard for you guys to believe a time space can exist within a time space?
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
Why is it so hard for you guys to believe a time space can exist within a time space?
Click to expand...
Because by all means, it can't, but pocket dimensions manage to achive the same practical effect, so it's not that different beyond the size of pocket dimensions being variable.
 
You see this? This is the Maginaryworld from Archie Sonic. It’s a realm with infinite parallel dimensions in them. It’s literally infinite space times, that are all universal in size, within a space time. DBS in this scenario is similar but instead of infinite worlds, it’s 12.
 
Also, to respond to this:
AKM sama said:
Calling them pocket dimensions doesn't change what they are at the core. They are space-time continuums of a certain size. And they can exist inside a space-time continuum of a bigger size.
Click to expand...
Actually it does, because we don’t assume that pocket dimensions are, “at their core”, universes. A pocket dimension is just a pocket dimension, not a smaller, medium or large sized universe.

Going by this logic, any creation or destruction done to a pocket dimension would be given Low 2-C since at their core, according to this logic, they would be universes but on a smaller scale.
 
Anyways it seems this thread has somewhat evolved into other topics. I’d like to propose we add something like the following to a certain page (Tiering System?) tho:

“It is a common trope in fiction that after an event that is supposed to destroy one or multiple timelines in their entirety, one can still go back in time in said timeline(s). As such, these instances should be disregarded when determining the tiering of these timeline-destroying events.”
 
Ionliosite said:
I know Dragon Ball Xenoverse has infinitely long timelines, so that's a thing.
Click to expand...

“What Ben 10 describes would be closer to the idea of "potential infinity", if anything, as the timelines are constantly multiplying in number instead of all possibilities already existing simultaneously, as I've said and there's also the fact this would be Low 1-C if legit, not 2-A, but we're not gonna talk about that”

If DBX (rather than Ben 10 since I ain’t going for that) indeed has an infinitely long timestream as well as use quantum mechanics you guys may be able to go for Low 1-C. (At least that’s what I understood from it, might have been more elaborated on on a message wall).
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Actually it does, because we don’t assume that pocket dimensions are, “at their core”, universes. A pocket dimension is just a pocket dimension, not a smaller, medium or large sized universe.
Click to expand...
And that's a strawman. I never said pocket dimensions are by default universes.
 
AKM sama said:
And that's a strawman. I never said pocket dimensions are by default universes.
Click to expand...
No, but your argument was implying that.

That pocket dimensions, at their core, are simply universes on a smaller scale than the typical universe size . Hence the “they are space-time continuum’s of a certain size” claim from you.
 
@Kukui Again no. You're twisting my argument. You decide to call a universe-sized space-time continuum a universe and a smaller-sized space time continuum a pocket dimension. That doesn't change the basic fact that both are space-time continuums and they can be inside other bigger space-time continuums. It's not that hard to understand.
 
Anyway yeah, the thread isn't really made to debate about how we treat DB cosmology and why we have that note on Zeno's profile. I guess, it be better brought back on topic.
 
AKM sama said:
@Kukui Again no. You're twisting my argument. You decide to call a universe-sized space-time continuum a universe and a smaller-sized space time continuum a pocket dimension. That doesn't change the basic fact that both are space-time continuums and they can be inside other bigger space-time continuums. It's not that hard to understand.
Click to expand...
So, again, your calling a pocket dimension a universe?

Why are you calling it a space-time continuum if isnt a universe?
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
Seriously, I 100% agree. You guys are over complicating things and it's not making you guys look very bright.
Click to expand...
This part of the discussion btw came up because dragomer used it as part of his case to explain Zen’o and Ionisite disagreed with it.

So here we are now.
 
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