Timeline Destruction Issues & Concerns

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What the title says and this stemmed from this thread about Ben 10 and the Chronosapien Time Bomb.

There are some concerns and/or issues to be raised about how we are to treat the incomplete destruction of a timeline or timelines. Such as only destroying X amount of given years, destroying the past, destroying the present, destroying the future, etc. Anything that effects a timeline, but doesn't completely destroy it. And this would also go for feats that involve destroying the multiverse, but only the present, future or past points of the cosmology instead of the entire cosmology itself. 2 glaring examples of this are the Chronosapien Time Bomb as said above, and Zen'o from Dragonball.

For the former, its 2-B rating is argued to have issues because there seems to be things that imply the time bomb destroying all timelines didnt extend to all timelines and the space-time throughout all of them. What implies this is Paradox and No Watch Ben being able to travel back to their timeline after the bomb was used. And as for Zen'o, his rating was called into question because of the fact that when he nuked the DB Multiverse to destroy Infinite Zamasu, Goku was still able to use Trunk's time machine to travel back through time to where Zen'o destroyed the Multiverse, as well as the present universe still remaining in-tact as well. That indicates that Zen'o's destruction didnt fully extend through the space-time that fully makes up the Multiverse. Which, as per these issues here, would make a 2-C rating for Zen'o fishy.

This thread here was made to try and clear this up and see if anyone needs to be upgraded or downgraded accordingly.

 

[Greenshifter]

I’d like to clarify on the CTB that the problem is No Watch Ben supposedly traveling back in time (and across timelines most likely) to Ben Prime’s timeline (which has an Omnitrix, something No Watch Ben’s timeline should’t have according to Professor Paradox) which is destroyed (but thus not in it’s entirety) and that if the entire past of Ben Prime’s timeline were destroyed, that via causality, No Watch Ben’s timeline should have been destroyed as well (despite it purposefully not being targeted by the bomb as Vilgax still needed a place to live).

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@ProfessorKukui4Life for Zeno case, add that the present universe was still intact despite the timeline begin destroyed which is an other contradiction for his 2-C rating

The present is a different timeline from the future.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

The present is a different timeline from the future.

What??? Not only it's bullshit but also the fact that Goku was still able to time travel from the present timeline to the future already proves that the present timeline and the future timeline aren't different and they are connected to the same timeline

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

TFW the multiverse doesnt have seperate space-times.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

What??? Not only it's bullshit but also the fact that Goku was still able to time travel from the present timeline to the future already proves that the present timeline and the future timeline aren't different and they are connected to the same timeline

Have you not watched or read Dragon Ball? It’s been established many many times that Trunks’ future is a different timeline from Goku’s present because changes from Goku’s present don’t affect Trunks’ future.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Have you not watched or read Dragon Ball? It’s been established many many times that Trunks’ future is a different timeline from Goku’s present because changes from Goku’s present don’t affect Trunks’ future.

Which is contradicted

 

[Mask_Green]

Trunks belongs to an 'alternate timeline'.

 

[Ionliosite]

What??? Not only it's bullshit but also the fact that Goku was still able to time travel from the present timeline to the future already proves that the present timeline and the future timeline aren't different and they are connected to the same timeline

No, Dragon Ball treats Trunks's future as a different timeline, it's literally listed as such in the Daizenshuu, which makes sense considering the events of both timelines don't match up during the same years at all to claim they are the same.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Which is contradicted

How?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Guys lets try and keep to the main points here.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

No, Dragon Ball treats Trunks's future as a different timeline, it's literally listed as such in the Daizenshuu, which makes sense considering the events of both timelines don't match up during the same years at all to claim they are the same.

Nvm let's just focus on the main topic

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

What the title says and this stemmed from this thread about Ben 10 and the Chronosapien Time Bomb.

There are some concerns and/or issues to be raised about how we are to treat the incomplete destruction of a timeline or timelines. Such as only destroying X amount of given years, destroying the past, destroying the present, destroying the future, etc. Anything that effects a timeline, but doesn't completely destroy it. And this would go for feats that involve destroying the multiverse, but only the present, future or past points of the cosmology instead of the entire cosmology itself. 2 glaring examples of this are the Chronosapien Time Bomb as said above, and Zen'o from Dragonball.

For the former, its 2-B rating is argued to have issues because there seems to be things that imply the time bomb destroying all timelines didnt extend to all timelines and the space-time throughout all of them. What implies this is Paradox and No Watch Ben being able to travel back to their timeline after the bomb was used. And as for Zen'o, his rating was called into question because of the fact that when he nuked the DB Multiverse to destroy Infinite Zamasu, Goku was still able to use Trunk's time machine to travel back through time to where Zen'o destroyed the Multiverse, as well as the present universe still remaining in-tact as well. That indicates that Zen'o's destruction didnt fully extend through the space-time that fully makes up the Multiverse. Which, as per these issues here, would make a 2-C rating for Zen'o fishy.

This thread here was made to try and clear this up and see if anyone needs to be upgraded or downgraded accordingly.

I think that's just treated as time hax + EE, if u are only able to erase like "xyz years/months" etc.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I’m gonna be really honest, both instances are just the writers having a brain fart.

Vilgax: On the contrary The detonation won't even touch this Ben Tennyson or his timeline. It's designed to wipe other timelines from existence.

Eon: Which one?

Vilgax: All of them. [ Laughs evilly ] Only this timeline will be left intact, while all others will cease to exist, so every Ben Tennyson not from this timeline will be destroyed.
It’s clear that Vilgax wanted the entire multiverse gone with just one timeline remaining. NW Ben and Paradox just created a chain of events for the timelines to branch off, so technically it they did affect history.

With Zeno’s case the timeline was destroyed. If he wasn’t able to reach the past then IZ wouldn’t have been erased in the present as well as the future.

 

[Ionliosite]

If he wasn’t able to reach the past then IZ wouldn’t have been erased in the present as well as the future.

We already stablished "the present" and "the future" are two different timeliness here, not a single one, so this argument makes no sense since affecting one timeline won't mean anything for the other.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What Ion said. Because Trunk's timeline is a different timeline all together, it would mean that destroying the past, present and future of his timeline would be whats needed to destroy IZ. Not the past, present and future space-time of other timelines.

 

[Overlord775]

didn't Future Trunks return to an earlier point in his timeline at the end of the Zamasu Ark ?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

didn't Future Trunks return to an earlier point in his timeline at the end of the Zamasu Ark ?

Yes he did

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

We already stablished "the present" and "the future" are two different timeliness here, not a single one, so this argument makes no sense since affecting one timeline won't mean anything for the other.

IZ was appearing in the present timeline. When did I say they were the same timeline?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

IZ was appearing in the present timeline. When did I say they were the same timeline?

Do you see the contradiction now?

 

[HST_Master]

didn't Future Trunks return to an earlier point in his timeline at the end of the Zamasu Ark ?

No he and Mai went to a Timeline that was similar to his. Like how Cell and Trunks come from 2 different but similar Timelines.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Zeno blatantly didn't destroy the actual timeline at the end of the Zamasu Arc or else there'd be no timeline for Goku to time travel back to. He just destroyed everything in those universes.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Do you see the contradiction now?

He was leaking into an entirely separate timeline. That’s not a contradiction.

 

[Overlord775]

Zamasu leaking into another reality doesn't really make sense when they say he's fusing with the "universe" and not the "universes"

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Zamasu leaking into another reality doesn't really make sense when they say he's fusing with the "universe" and not the "universes"

You could say it doesn’t make sense all you want, it still happened.

 

[Overlord775]

or the present and Trunks's future are part of the same timelin and are just brenching paths of it

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

I would chalk it up to a plot hole/WIS. Mainly because we actually see the time ring disappearing. Indicating that the timeline is actually gone

Each time ring represents a timeline

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I would chalk it up to a plot hole/WIS. Mainly because we actually see the time ring disappearing. Indicating that the timeline is actually gone

Each time ring represents a timeline

Thats the manga continuity which isnt the same as what the anime did for IZ.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Isn’t the Manga supposed to be the main source of Information? After all, it’s the inspiration for the anime, not the other way around.

 

[HST_Master]

or the present and Trunks's future are part of the same timelin and are just brenching paths of it

This doesn't make sense. If they branch apart, they're separate timelines.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

No because, last I checked, we treat the anime and manga for super as 2 separate canons. Otherwise, the manga continuity wouldnt be 3-A, they'd be Low 2-C as well.

 

[Overlord775]

Isn’t the Manga supposed to be the main source of Information? After all, it’s the inspiration for the anime, not the other way around.

normally yes, but in DBS it's the opposite, with the anime bein' the canon

 

[Daddybrawl]

Ah. That’s so weird. My bad then, ignore me.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Now as for IZ appearing in Goku's present timeline, im not quite so sure. Because if he did, wouldnt Zeno's destuction have extended to Goku's timeline as well and gotten it destroyed?

 

[HST_Master]

Now as for IZ appearing in Goku's present timeline, im not quite so sure. Because if he did, wouldnt Zeno's destuction extended to Goku's timeline as well and gotten destroyed?

Why? You're assuming it's somehow a chain reaction.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

Thats the manga continuity which isnt the same as what the anime did for IZ.

I would think that how the rings worked would be the same in both versions. Unless Toriyama decided to change that plot point for both for some reason.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Why? You're assuming it's somehow a chain reaction.

Not really. Logically it would have to in order to completely kill Zamasu, if he actually slipped part of himself into the present timeline.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I would think that how the rings worked would be the same in both versions. Unless Toriyama decided to change that plot point for both for some reason.

Does the anime show the time ring vanish as well?

 

[HST_Master]

Not really. Logically it would have to in order to completely kill Zamasu, if he actually slipped part of himself into the present timeline.

And again why? He was starting to but he never made it all the way into their timeline, as he was killed before that he even visibly spilling into the main timeline. Otherwise only way the main timeline would get erased is if it was a chain reaction.

 

[Dragomer]

Does the anime show the time ring vanish as well?

You don't see the vanishing but you see the box later and the number of time rings match up with it being erased IIRC.

And again why? He was starting to but he never made it all the way into their timeline, as he was killed before that he even visibly spilling into the main timeline. Otherwise only way the main timeline would get erased is if it was a chain reaction.

He actualy did reach the present timeline, he just didn't have the time to spread further than what the Z fighters were seeing / reacting to in the present, his face immediatly started getting erased by Zeno right after it fully formed up.

Here : , You clearly see the present guys seeing and reacting to a fully formed 'Infinit Zamasu face', just because he didn't even take over a planete doesn't mean he didn't reach the timeline.