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Timelimits in vsdebates

In General time limits affecting characters capabilities should stay in effect since they are a crucial part of their characteristic. Luffy does not instantly fight in G4 when he is not stated to do so in the OP. Its part of the progression of a vsbattle fight. When he needs to go G4 he should therefore suffer the consequences.

However, there are characters who happen to be absolutely powerless in a vsmatch without their transformation.

The used example in the Thread was Escanor, who is usually a 9C character who was put up against a 6B character.

Therefore his next and only form which would cause the match to be possible would be his "Pseudo Sun" form.

In general this form lasts around some seconds, before he goes back to being 9C, making the fight pointless in itself.

As such my argument is: When certain forms of a character are the only possible way for a vsmatch to be fair and possible, that form should last throughout the fight.

I am not talking about power Ups which may get them an advantage. I am talking about forms which are crucial for the fight itself to happen.
 
While I do not wish to to make a false comparission but isn't that like saying that this one ability makes it unfair, so it should be allowed to be restricted?

If the character isn't capable of properly fighting because of a weakness, we cannot just ignore that weakness. Even if it makes the fight a stomp.


I think this is the same as immortality and abilities, or speed amps in speed equal: If the mach would be a stomp unless something is restricted, don't make it
 
The things are different. Immortality, speed amplifications and other hax may have an impact on the fight but they will never cause the fight to be impossible without it. This is not an accurate comparison - albeit something to be discussed about maybe in another thread.

There is a difference between a Stomp due to reason X and Spite, where one character has virtually no way around the other character.

Things are not static in that regard. We are allowed to tweak stuff in a way that fights would be possible. Limiting Goku to SSJ1 without allowing him to upgrade through his other forms. We artificially limit whatever character can do or can not do for the sake of comparing him with characters of similar caliber. The limits and tweaks are also referenced on the profiles when match results are added.

Simply stating "dont make the match" would severly limit the possibilities of making fights in general, since where would we stop? Limiting Immortality? Limiting Upgrades? Limiting Speed Equal?

-

As such, when only one form of a character is a possible candidate for a fight with another character, that form should be used to last in that fight.
 
The things are different. Immortality, speed amplifications and other hax may have an impact on the fight but they will never cause the fight to be impossible without it. This is not an accurate comparison - albeit something to be discussed about maybe in another thread.

I believe it is a good comparison. If we leave the character as they normaly are, the VS thread would be a stomp, and as such, something is rastricted to make it more fair,

There is a difference between a Stomp due to reason X and Spite, where one character has virtually no way around the other character.

Spite or Stomp, that's not really the point. The point is that tweaking the abilities of characters to give more chances is not allowed (with the exeption of transformation, however, even then, that is more akin to speed equal, where fights to find would be too hard to find so we turn a blind eye on them), so I fail to see how tweaking the weaknesses would be.

Things are not static in that regard. We are allowed to tweak stuff in a way that fights would be possible. Limiting Goku to SSJ1 without allowing him to upgrade through his other forms. We artificially limit whatever character can do or can not do for the sake of comparing him with characters of similar caliber. The limits and tweaks are also referenced on the profiles when match results are added.

What I said above I guess. It's mostly allowed for the same reason speed equal is.

Plus the same logic was refused for restricting abilties, why would it be accepted here?

Simply stating "dont make the match" would severly limit the possibilities of making fights in general, since where would we stop? Limiting Immortality? Limiting Upgrades? Limiting Speed Equal?

I think that goes right back at you. If we allow infinite stamina and ignore weaknesses, then why can't we restrict abilities or immortality? Why can't we change their sizes? Why can't we make fights where we can openly chose what abilities they will use?
 
PaChi2 said:
Timelimits should stay, and if they are restricted, the match is not notable, as simple as that.
Click to expand...
Situatuon: character a is 9c but can be 6b for 5 seconds

He is pit against another 6b character

Does this mean he never can have a fair fight because the argument is: either he gets squashed after 5 seconds when reverting back to 9c or when he stays 6b it doesn't count?
 
I mean, UI Goku is a pretty fast MFTL. The time limit is really not an issue for him when he moves at that kind of speed.
 
Situatuon: character a is 9c but can be 6b for 5 seconds

He is pit against another 6b character

Does this mean he never can have a fair fight because the argument is: either he gets squashed after 5 seconds when reverting back to 9c or when he stays 6b it doesn't count?

Escanor's The One form lasts 1 min. You cant put him against someone of that level, say "The One has not time limit" and expect it to be added because you are simply removing The One's weakness.
 
Situatuon: character a is 9c but can be 6b for 5 seconds

He is pit against another 6b character

Does this mean he never can have a fair fight because the argument is: either he gets squashed after 5 seconds when reverting back to 9c or when he stays 6b it doesn't count?

Escanor's The One form lasts 1 min. You cant put him against someone of that level, say "The One has not time limit" and expect it to be added because you are simply removing The One's weakness.

I don't mean the one. I mean pseudo sun. It lasts about 5 seconds and afterwards he inmediatel goes back to 9c
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Then don't make the match.

Or do, and either he wins in 5 seconds, or he loses in 5 seconds. And if neither of those happen, the it's a stomp.
Click to expand...
^
 
IMO, it should only be for something like a brief increase. Like say a character can increase their abilities by some means for 10 minutes, then it's ten minutes.

But for a state of being, say a human level character becoming gigantic for a little, it'd be unfair in a battle that could last hours.
 
Therefir said:
But how much time is 5 seconds for someone who can move at massively hypersonic speeds? We should take that into account.
Click to expand...
Impossible to do since even in anime and manga 5 seconds is still 5 seconds.
 
Therefir said:
But how much time is 5 seconds for someone who can move at massively hypersonic speeds? We should take that into account.
Click to expand...
They should percieve it as 3.8 hours, but fiction doesn't tend to care about that
 
@Rocker I don't think you get the point. What I'm saying is why is that allowed, but no time limits. Why not just have time limit on or off as a thing the op can choose?
 
ByAsura said:
@Rocker
I don't think you get the point. What I'm saying is why is that allowed, but no time limits. Why not just have time limit on or off as a thing the op can choose?
Click to expand...
I mean you can actually, but as was said time limit off is not added. No one would stop the matches from being made.
 
ByAsura said:
@Rocker
I don't think you get the point. What I'm saying is why is that allowed, but no time limits. Why not just have time limit on or off as a thing the op can choose?
Click to expand...
This has been argued in everythread against ability restrictions... this one included, so I'll just quote myself

akin to speed equal, where fights to find would be too hard to find so we turn a blind eye on them

At most you'll get speed equal banned as well with that logic
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Then don't make the match.
Or do, and either he wins in 5 seconds, or he loses in 5 seconds. And if neither of those happen, the it's a stomp.
Click to expand...
I am sorry but this appears to be a very static approach on the matter. It basically prevents a character to ever be used in a battle, seeing that matches are not decided within 5 seconds. It basically means that the entire key we have for that specific power up is useless.

In battles against 9Cs its restricted because being 6B.

In battles against other 6Bs its useless because unlike other forms of power ups who have a time limit there is no linear decline of some sort. Its pretty much just 9C - 6B for 5 seconds - 9C again.

Both instances would prevent the character to be in any fight whatsoever with any character.
 
Impossible to do since even in anime and manga 5 seconds is still 5 seconds.

>5 seconds is 5 seconds

What abour Namek and the ToP, tho.
 
I mean. If the character wouldn't be capable of ever fighting an enemy in a realistic way because a weakness, than I doubt a mach for him should be made expecting it to work
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
This has been argued in everythread against ability restrictions... this one included, so I'll just quote myself

akin to speed equal, where fights to find would be too hard to find so we turn a blind eye on them

At most you'll get speed equal banned as well with that logic
Click to expand...
Except you could find yourself in the same place. Say the character only scales to Ultraman because he's a very specific place in 4-B, but he has a 3 minute time limit. So maybe time limits can be removed provided certain criteria is met.
 
What do you mean?

I genuinly don't understand you point.

People, have weaknesess? We don't restrict them. Anybody scaling to a character with timelimit (like jiren) scales, how does that change anything?
 
So we have an entire new key for a character with new stats and abilities, and we have to take their canon transformation timelimit into account for the key?.......that's kinda cheap.

Base and transformation shouldn't be two seperate keys if that's the case.
 
I mean... that's not an argument against it.

The key us so that its easier to navigate most of the time really
 
@Ricsi

I'm not arguing for or against it. I'm saying that it conficts with the key system in place here. Keys on the battle wiki (Or at least how they've been used traditionally) is to seperate one version of a character from another, either because of lapse of time / diffrernce in abilities and stats.

There's literally no reason to have an entire seperate Key if we're gonna have to combine keys in battles in the first place. "Well this is an acurate indexing wiki first"....exactly, and it would be more acurate to combine the keys, since they would be combined in a normal fight anyway.

When you have a character who can jump several tiers with a transformation that has a time limit, you have to either get rid of the seperate keys or get rid of the time limit, because it's combining keys, which we don't allow here. Unless we can start making composite/combined key battles now.
 
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