Time Stops and Damage Accumulation (JJBA)

[Promestein]

Alright, so. I've been thinking about this for a while. Since I got on this wiki.

Basically, Dio and Jotaro cannot accumulate damage while time is stopped because that is not how their time stops work. In addition, listing such stats means listing them for every time stopper, which would lead to horribly inflated stats for a lot of other characters.

The assumption is that Dio's time stop works in a way that allows for damage to accumulate, by making it so that all the force he exerts is applied instantly as soon as time is resumed, which is contradicted by a lot of things in canon. I'll go over them.

• First, Dio punches through Kakyoin while time is stopped. If the above assumption was correct, Dio would have only punched through him once time resumed and the force is applied. (Hierophant's web, too, was broken during time stop, as opposed to shattering once it resumed.)
• Dio hits a cat while time is stopped and the pieces of it fly onto a table before time resumes. See above.
• Dio punches Polnareff, and his body is visibly distorted and forced back before time resumes. Polnareff isn't affected by the full force of the knockback until time resumes, yes, but a portion of the force is evidently still applied while time is stopped.
• The steamroller is damaged by each blow Jotaro and Dio throw at it, and Dio overpowers Jotaro, forcing it to the ground.
• Jotaro punches Sheer Heart Attack for close to the full duration of his time stop and it visibly takes extensive damage before time is resumed.

So, uh, yeah. Dio and Jotaro clearly can't accumulate damage through stopping time and punching nonstop, as the force of each blow is applied individually during stopped time. Forever building level. Sorry, guys.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

hmm, indeed, the objects do move even in stopped time, do it might be argued that they are already affected in stopped time

 

[CuriousWatcher]

Normally, I would try to defend JJBA but now that I think about it, I don't know where the "damage accumulation during Time-stop" comes from....

However, IMO, the part about it being applied to all Time Stopper is wrong since, in the case it is true. It is a Jojo only mechanism so it wouldn't apply to people from other verses.

 

[Promestein]

Normally, I would try to defend JJBA but now that I think about it, I don't know where the "damage accumulation during Time-stop" comes from....

However, IMO, the part about it being applied to all Time Stopper is wrong since, in the case it is true. It is a Jojo only mechanism so it wouldn't apply to people from other verses.

There's no evidence for it working like that in JoJo either, unless I'm missing something.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I don't really know where the whole time stop accumulation damage thing comes from either.

That and to everyone else, assume this was actually possible for anyone that can time stop other than JJBA, don't you think it's weird that we accept that only but not other series like Kingdom Hearts and such?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

I don't really know where the whole time stop accumulation damage thing comes from either.
That and to everyone else, assume this was actually possible for anyone that can time stop other than JJBA, don't you think it's weird that we accept that only but not other series like Kingdom Hearts and such?

That got me thinking too, i just followed it like everyone else

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I don't really know where the whole time stop accumulation damage thing comes from either.
That and to everyone else, assume this was actually possible for anyone that can time stop other than JJBA, don't you think it's weird that we accept that only but not other series like Kingdom Hearts and such?

Yea i have no idea where this time accumulation stuff comes from it seems to me like an hypothetical outcome because anyone who can stop time could theoretically accumulated damage but we dont give other time stoppers that ability.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

the irony is, we can see the actions taking effect in stopped time LOL

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Here's another thing too about this. There was an actual Kingdom Heart's calc that actually did something exactly like what was done to DIO and Jotaro. Here's the calc in question. http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=17452

 

[Naitez]

They can still punch at FTL speeds though and the victim can't move nor does he have any awareness of what's happening. But despite that, I knew accumulating damage was a flawed way of doing things as someone with an unlimited time stop can theoretically deal infinite damage.

 

[Geomancertactics]

Damage accumilation during timestop comes from Jotaro using it to damage Kira's Sheer Heart Attack, when normal ORA rushes did nothng.

 

[Promestein]

Sheer Heart Attack was cracked (if functionally unharmed), by the first barrage, so of course Jotaro would assume punching it more would destroy it. He stopped time so it wouldn't blow up on him. All this proves is that Jotaro's time stop didn't accomplish anything that punching it a bunch normally wouldn't do.

 

[Naitez]

Well, time stopping bypassed its explosive setoff so you might be right about Sheer Heart Attack's durability being lower than is actually is, assuming Jotaro was just punching nonstop for half a second.

 

[Promestein]

Those two panels of SPlat punching SHA non-stop for the duration of the time stop can also be used as evidence that damage doesn't accumulate, as SHA takes significant damage before time resumes.

 

[Naitez]

Well, we know that the damage caused is instant with every action but is there a difference between that and accumulating damage when it comes to affecting someone's durability?

 

[Promestein]

Well, we know that the damage caused is instant with every action but is there a difference between that and accumulating damage when it comes to affecting someone's durability?

I don't understand what you mean by this..?

 

[Naitez]

Is there a difference between time stops accumulating damage and releasing it all at the end of the time stops and time stops causing damage the instant an action like a punch is done by the user? Will this make a difference on durability?

 

[Promestein]

Is there a difference between time stops accumulating damage and releasing it all at the end of the time stops and time stops causing damage the instant an action like a punch is done by the user? Will this make a difference on durability?

Yes. No more damage accumulation at all, so no 6-B Dio / Jotaro or anything like that.

 

[Naitez]

Oh man. I really thought being able to blitz someone with pure speed or time hax could mean something to durability.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

So y'all just ignore me and that KH time stop calc link earlier, huh?

 

[Promestein]

So y'all just ignore me and that KH time stop calc link earlier, huh?

Not ignoring you! I just don't really know what to say about it since I don't know anything about KH, and it really depends on how time stop works in KH.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Well anyways, the point i made here earlier with that was just like the TS calcs for JJBA, somebody else made one but for KH instead. The assumption was made in that if JJBA can do this, other series like KH can as well.

Which is pretty ridiculous kind of like what Promestein said on the top cause let's see here: We currently have the KHverse at Large Planet level. All of them are 71*SoL. If we apply the same thing like what happened with Dio and Jotaro but replace both with say Sora for example......the result would be freaking huge for the series. Like even if we give Sora like what, 2 seconds, his hypothetical TS output would probably hit way past 5-A level or something even higher, give or take.

If anything, we really need to decide if we should take this out or not........

 

[Naitez]

So y'all just ignore me and that KH time stop calc link earlier, huh?

Haven't played Kingdom Hearts past the second one due to the convoluted plot but the time stop in that game series has to answer the same question: Do the actions take effect as soon as they are performed in the time stop or is it all accumulated and released at the end of the time stop?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Why must my dreams of making a Mettaton vs Dio fight be so god damn difficult?

Anyway, this seems legit. From what I remember (though it's been a while and I still haven't finished part V), there's never a point in the series in which time stop damage was shown to accumulate all at once as soon as time started, again. Damage always seemed to happen during stopped time as well, albeit the target obviously wouldn't feel it until time restarted.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

So y'all just ignore me and that KH time stop calc link earlier, huh?

Haven't played Kingdom Hearts past the second one due to the convoluted plot but the time stop in that game series has to answer the same question: Do the actions take effect as soon as they are performed in the time stop or is it all accumulated and released at the end of the time stop?

From my experience from playing Birth By Sleep, the actions take effect as soon as the time stop ends. Basically what i mean is like this: I stop time, make a long combo where the enemy doesn't even budge, wait for the TS to end, and the effects of the damage i've dealt with take one action at a time rather than being a full blown damage accumulated strike.

So basically, KH's way of TS damage effect =/= JJBA's TS damage effect. However, it's still odd that somebody on NF did something like this when that's.....not really how it went?

 

[Naitez]

So instead of just one huge hit, it's multiple strikes taking effect in the order they were performed? I don't think the calculation counts then.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

So instead of just one huge hit, it's multiple strikes taking effect in the order they were performed? I don't think the calculation counts then.

Yeah, pretty much. :/

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

But still, this got me thinking: Has there ever been a series other than JoJo that has done Time Stop damage accumulation before?

 

[LordAizenSama]

while I don't follow JJBA,From what I've read here I have to agree with the OP.

 

[Promestein]

But still, this got me thinking: Has there ever been a series other than JoJo that has done Time Stop damage accumulation before?

Not to my knowledge.

I think we should only bring it into play when it's explicitly mentioned as a thing.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this seems reasonable.

 

[Promestein]

I can put the suggested changes into action whenever this passes through, assuming further input is needed.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that you can make the adjustments now if you wish.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

so are we removing accumulated damage from dio and jotaro?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes.

 

[Promestein]

Alright. I'll do so now, then.

so are we removing accumulated damage from dio and jotaro?

Yes.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

k den, city block level forever then

 

[Sheoth]

This seems fine to me as well.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I was going to mention how this is going to destroy Dio's win section, but then I remembered he actually has a few pretty decent hax besides just time stop, so likely not nearly as much as I initially thought.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

im fine with this (in case if it was not clear already)