Tier 9-A Partners in Crime Tournament; Round 1 Match 4: Hat Kid and The Empress VS Buddy and Rando (7-2-0)

[Cimafranca133]

Hat Kid and The Empress VS Buddy and Rando​

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Tournament Match Rules​

• Speed is equalized.
• Characters have their standard equipment.
• Battles take place at an empty prison hallway.
• Combatants start 30 meters away from each other.

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Hat Kid and The Empress: 7
Buddy and Rando: 2
Incon: 0

 

[DrGreyman]

Even more fitting with the large crime boss + little girl protagonist combo, weird
alright so, from what I can see Buddy and Rando scale to 129 from Brad, and Hat Kid and The Empress scale to 169
not a massive advantage but it's an advantage nonetheless

I think the biggest difference is in how they fight. I don't know much about Lisa the Painful/hopeful, but from what I've seen it's an earthbound like rpg so not much to go off of in animations. but, from what attacks I've seen both Buddy and Rando are more close-range fighters.
Hat Kid is also a close-range fighter, but mostly specializes in dodging as much as possible, considering she usually dies in 4 hits in her game. With the Time-slow hat and the Springing hat I think she would be able to bob and weave around most of what Buddy and Rando can throw at her, keeping them busy.
The Empress is very much a long-range fighter who focuses on using her rocket launcher as firing support for her more close-range minions.

Wish we were in a more open fighting arena but with Hat Kid focusing on keeping the two wastelanders busy and with The Empress in the back firing away, I think the cats would manage to overwhelm the wastelanders. Plus, while Hat Kit would be mostly focused on keeping them busy, she isn't a slouch in combat either. She can and will smack people with her bat/umbrella if the opportunity presents itself in between her dodges, and if no opportunity happens then she has her jump attack, which homes in on a target's head and slams her into it. It does leave her vulnerable with the end lag, and the fact that it leaves her traveling in a predictable route, but I don't think it should be vulnerable enough to capitalize on in the fight with everything else going on.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

This definitely the best thumbnail you made, Cima.

 

[Shadowslash125]

I think the Empress would be the star of this match, seeing that Buddy and Rando would have their fair share of CQC experience, which should be enough to handle Hat Kid well. Either that or one of them figures out what's going on and charges at the Empress, possibly meeting a rocket to the face.
I think Hat Kid should be more than enough to stall the two till Empress does the funny and win this round.

 

[Shadowslash125]

One thing I failed to notice is that Buddy has TNT and Firebombs in her standard equipment. Depending on how narrow the hallway is, the explosion (regardless of whether it would hit) may cause smoke to rise and have the Lisa Duo close the gap. TNT is self-explanatory but I will assume firebombs set people on fire with their explosives (I have never played the Lisa games so bear with me).

The match would probably depend on who successfully attacks first: Empress with Bazooka or Buddy with other explosives.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I'm leaning towards the cats for AP and range reasons. While Hat Kid is a close-range fighter, she also has a giant laser attack, a shockwave/groundpound iirc, and the grapple hook

 

[DrGreyman]

The groundpound only works if the ice hat has something to launch off of, like a giant springboard
but those other two should work
never did establish which badges she has equipped

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Hat Kid and Empress FRA

 

[Shadowslash125]

Hat Kid and Empress FRA too

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I'm leaning towards the cats for AP and range reasons.

Buddy and Rando have the AP advantage;
The 0.031 Tons of TNT feat Brad scales to is done rather early on in the game, and he gets considerably stronger over the course of the game and by end game Brad and co can deal damage on par with TNT, which is 0.062 Tons of TNT. Failure Brad is far stronger, reducing several waves of soldiers comparable to his base form to bloody paste, and Rando can punch a hole through this Brad's chest. Buddy is even stronger, fending off an even stronger Brad at the beginning of the game and by the end could hold her own against Sweetheart and defeat a Joy Mutant Buzzo, the former could one-shot someone who pummeled Rando and the latter is a stronger version of the guy who utterly destroys Brad and his party everytime they attempt to fight him, one-shotting them and no-selling all their attacks.
TL;DR: End Game Buddy >≈ Joy Mutant Buzzo > Buzzo ≈ Sweetheart >>> Rando >> Failure Brad >> End Game Brad and Co ≈< 0.062 Tons

I think it's also safe to say that Buddy and Rando hold a pretty large skill advantage here; Buddy was trained to kill by Brad. She regularly takes on teams of enemies solo and has killed the strongest people in Olathe, the "strongest," Big Lincoln, fought toe-to-toe with Satan, who is so powerful that the villagers of EWC, which is populated with professional wrestlers, forbid anyone from going near his truck, and managed to fight on par with Brad's gang in a 1v4. Rando is no slouch either, an expert martial artist who could hold his own against Brad in combat; And Brad is really skilled:

Brad is an immensely skilled martial artist who invented an entire martial arts style, and those taught to use it are by far the most efficient fighters in all of Olathe. He has demonstrated his prowess by defeating champion-class wrestlers in direct combat, learning other styles and incorporating their teachings just by reading their scrolls, using his style efficiently even against armed adversaries, ranging from swordsmen to gunslingers, and he can accomplish these even with both arms chopped off at the shoulder.

It should also be noted that these two are really tough to take down, taking slices, gunshots and very painful strikes with little impediment to their fighting ability, with Buddy herself even claiming that she doesn't feel pain, and this is without taking into account their healing items; Rando Rations basically being a full heal to both stamina and health, and the big one, Joy would fully heal them, further increase their strength (x2/3 in-game) and make them completely insensitivite to pain. (Buddy especially is known to abuse it)

 

[Shadowslash125]

Ooh this is getting interesting, revoking my vote ftm.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Y'all be too quick to vote.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Can't help getting giddy about it. Thank **** for Adem since his reasoning made this closer. I already initially thought this would be a close match but I can kinda get swayed hehe.

 

[DrGreyman]

interesting, interesting
Well, as I said Hat Kid is used to being outmatched in raw strength, and her fighting style is very evasive, so even though they lost the AP advantage I don't think that's a death sentence. I will also say that Empress scales above Hat Kid in hand-to-hand AP since she can oneshot her with her claws, we don't know exactly how much higher her AP is without her rocket launcher, but it is much higher.
While the duo haven't shown as high a skill level as Buddy and Rando apparently have, I wouldn't say they are completely outmatched. Hat Kid has fought against multiple skilled opponents, the earliest enemy in the game can actually learn Hat Kid's attacks and become immune to them if she doesn't switch up her fighting style, and has made her way through many different worlds. The Empress was feared throughout New Metro and is implied to be superior to her minions which give Hat Kid a run for her money. Both are extremely intelligent and Hat Kid in particular is very good at adapting and learning how her opponents fight. Again, obviously not 'making a new martial art style' levels of skill but they aren't anything to scoff at.

I don't believe they have a way to heal themselves, so that is definitely an advantage for the wastelanders. The Empress doesn't react to damage much, looking more annoyed at Hat Kid's swings than anything. Hat Kid herself can take massive hits and go right back to jumping around with no issue, though she does feel pain.

Doesn't Joy come with some pretty major side effects? It says on Buddy's page that she regularly has hallucinations.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Doesn't Joy come with some pretty major side effects? It says on Buddy's page that she regularly has hallucinations.

That's mostly a long term symptom of Joy. A single pop of Joy usually lasts a few fights and its withdrawal only kicks in after, at minimum, hours.
And the hallucinations usually don't effect her in combat, only ever doing so when she was about to turn into a Joy Mutant.

 

[Bruhtelho]

i'd like to point out as well that Hat Kid has access to her Hats and Badges which means she can use Time Stop Hat + Fast Hatter Badge to basically have Time-Slow up every few seconds to grant her even better chances to dodge and get hits in

Hat Kid has her own range game as well thanks to the Brewing Hat and Projectile Badge meaning that if both her and empress play range, it'll be hard for them to approach due to Time Slow. doesn't help that Buddy and Rando don't know about Hat Kid's type 4 immortality so if they accidently kill her, Snatcher will revive her for his amusement.

well Buddy and Rando are skilled in combat, they're gonna have a really hard time landing most meaningful hits thanks to Hat Kid's large versatility and incredible dodging skills, she literally plays the dodge game till her opponent is left open for a hit from her in most battles (Snatcher, Conductor/DJ Grooves, Mustache Girl, etc) and Empress being able to play the range game with her rocket means focusing on Hat Kid leaves them open to get blasted.

personally Hat Kid and Empress have far more going for them here.

 

[DrGreyman]

Ah, alright then

Well, I still think my team has the same wincon. It'd obviously be harder but the AP gap isn't to the point where they'd be doing scratch damage to Buddy and Rando, and they can take a couple of hits in return. Use Hat Kid's speed and evasiveness, plus the fact that she is really good at annoying people, and have her jump around keeping the wastelanders' attention while Empress stays in the back firing off rockets. Sprint/Timeslow hat to weave around the mostly melee-based fighters, get a whack in every now and then, and eventually they'd wear the wastelanders' down.

 

[DrGreyman]

basically the same message twice lol

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Hat Kid and Empress FRA

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Hat Kid has her own range game as well thanks to the Brewing Hat and Projectile Badge

I mean, while Rando and Buddy are primarily close-range fighters, they both have some range options, Rando can throw fire ball hadoukens and Buddy has her smoke bombs which either put the AHiT gang to sleep or lethally poison them, both of which would be guaranteed to take out either Hat Kid or Empress if they land.
Plus, both can employ the TNT and Firebombs, which can cover entire rooms and the former is so hot that it can reduce others to nothing but a black smudge.
The TNT and Firebombs are almost guaranteed to hit in the empty prison hallway, with it being such an enclosed space.

 

[DrGreyman]

I mean, while Rando and Buddy are primarily close-range fighters, they both have some range options, Rando can throw fire ball hadoukens and Buddy has her smoke bombs which either put others sleep and lethally poison them, both of which would be guaranteed to take out either Hat Kid or Empress if they land.
Plus, both can employ the TNT and Firebombs, which can cover entire rooms and the former is so hot that it can reduce others to nothing but a black smudge.
The TNT and Firebombs are almost guaranteed to hit in the empty prison hallway, with it being such an enclosed space.

Wouldn't those also hit your guys?
Like, Hat Kid's laser attack is single target and Empress' rockets have a rather small radius to be honest, but if they hit entire rooms your guys would also be caught in the TNT blast
also like, Empress is really long range. she could be on the complete other side of the hallway away from the fight and still hit things accurately, while being well out of range of what Buddy and Rando have

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I also don't see the AHiT duo outlasting the wastelanders, especially since the latter have stamina refill items and are loaded with healing items.
Buddy can also heal herself with her Mend skill and gains stamina by timing her attacks perfectly lol

Wouldn't those also hit your guys?

They get thrown at the opponent and then explode, that's why they deal AoE damage without hurting the party, I think.

 

[DaReaperMan]

To explain what Empress does...

She fires a rocket launcher with homing on it, and if you bother hitting her, she smacks you with AP sufficient enough to one-shot Hat Kid and can always land her hits on Hat Kid who has very solid acrobatics and ways to dodge.

It's a pretty bad idea to get near Empress considering her skill, but unfortunately you kind of have to in order to do anything to her that she doesn't fire a rocket launcher at

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Empress' rocket launcher honestly isn't that scary, It's incredibly slow (Compared to Hat Kid) and only deals normal damage to Hat Kid (Not a one-shot).
Buddy is already stronger than someone who can no-sell (Literally 0 damage) attacks that are comparable to if not superior to it (Brad and Co are ≈< 0.062 Tons)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Empress' rocket launcher honestly isn't that scary, It's incredibly slow (Compared to Hat Kid) and only deals normal damage to Hat Kid (Not a one-shot).
Buddy is already stronger than someone who can no-sell (Literally 0 damage) attacks that are comparable to if not superior to it (Brad and Co are ≈< 0.062 Tons)

I meant for the ranged attacks thrown at her

 

[DrGreyman]

gains stamina by timing her attacks perfectly

fire beats

I also don't see the AHiT duo outlasting the wastelanders, especially since the latter have stamina refill items and are loaded with healing items.
Buddy can also heal herself with her Mend skill and gains stamina by timing her attacks perfectly lol

well, the Mend ability's description looks like it takes a second to work, so that would just leave Buddy open to an attack that reverts the healing just done. Same with the item usage tbh, though cramming food into your mouth like skyrim would probably be faster than the AHiT duo's attacks. Do Buddy's attacks need to hit for her to regain stamina, or does she just need to attack on a beat? Cus again, super evasive, might negate that.

They get thrown at the opponent and then explode, that's why they deal AoE damage without hurting the party, I think.

But as you said, this is an enclosed space, and Hat Kid won't be all that far away from your guys. So either the TNT is thrown at close range and hits Hat Kid and your people, or it's thrown way long-range and Empress has plenty of time to run away from the bomb, of she is just out of Buddy's throwing range to begin with since I'd assume a rocket launcher has a longer range than just throwing a bomb.

Empress' rocket launcher honestly isn't that scary, I remember it being incredibly slow (To Hat Kid) and only dealing normal damage to them (Not a one-shot).
Buddy is already stronger than someone who can no-sell (Literally 0 damage) attacks that are comparable to if not superior to it (Brad and Co are ≈< 0.062 Tons)

It is slow, but it curves to hit things, and they are in an enclosed hallway, not the large open spaces the Metro had. And yeah, I mentioned her rocket launcher being weaker than her claws, but it's still not going to just tickle. Also, didn't you say they scale to Brad and Co? If they are stronger than no sell than they might be stronger than the tournament allows

 

[RandomGuy2345]

i'd like to point out as well that Hat Kid has access to her Hats and Badges which means she can use Time Stop Hat + Fast Hatter Badge to basically have Time-Slow up every few seconds to grant her even better chances to dodge and get hits in

Bruh...

 

[DrGreyman]

Bruh...

AGAIN
that is not higher than low hax, higher than low hax is something that non hax fighters would have a very difficult time going up against, it just makes her move and react to things faster, it isn't Za Waurdo or anything

 

[Bruhtelho]

I mean, while Rando and Buddy are primarily close-range fighters, they both have some range options, Rando can throw fire ball hadoukens and Buddy has her smoke bombs which either put the AHiT gang to sleep or lethally poison them, both of which would be guaranteed to take out either Hat Kid or Empress if they land.

Poison is killing Hat Kid if its lethal meaning Snatcher would revive her. leaving lasting dmg on Hat Kid is gonna be hard thanks to her incredible dodging skills, Time-Slow, Toon Force, Elasticity, and Regeneration meaning she can practically bounce back from anything up close. putting them to sleep tho would be

Plus, both can employ the TNT and Firebombs, which can cover entire rooms and the former is so hot that it can reduce others to nothing but a black smudge.
The TNT and Firebombs are almost guaranteed to hit in the empty prison hallway, with it being such an enclosed space.

Hat Kid has access to Time Pieces as well, tho she doesn't use them like Mustache girl did, if absolutely pushed to her limit then she'll use them to give herself an edge like BFR'ing them to a pocket dimension or rewinding the fight to a previous point, and again killing Hat Kid, is only gonna result in her being brought back by Snatcher since she has contracts to fulfill.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I should've joined with two Chaos Warriors of different marks

 

[DrGreyman]

Hat Kid has access to Time Pieces as well, tho she doesn't use them like Mustache girl did, if absolutely pushed to her limit then she'll use them to give herself an edge like BFR'ing them to a pocket dimension or rewinding the fight to a previous point, and again killing Hat Kid, is only gonna result in her being brought back by Snatcher since she has contracts to fulfill.

Please don't bring those up, random is going to kill me if she uses them

 

[Bruhtelho]

Please don't bring those up, random is going to kill me if she uses them

they're incredibly out of character tbf BUT she still has access to them thanks to Standard Equipment.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

AGAIN
that is not higher than low hax, higher than low hax is something that non hax fighters would have a very difficult time going up against, it just makes her move and react to things faster, it isn't Za Waurdo or anything

I'm saying that's a huge deciding factor in this fight. That's why I said "Bruh..."

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

well, the Mend ability's description looks like it takes a second to work, so that would just leave Buddy open to an attack that reverts the healing just done. Same with the item usage tbh, though cramming food into your mouth like skyrim would probably be faster than the AHiT duo's attacks. Do Buddy's attacks need to hit for her to regain stamina, or does she just need to attack on a beat? Cus again, super evasive, might negate that.

Its description does mention shrouding Buddy in smoke, but even if we don't count that, Rando is still kinda there, especially since Hat Kid is going in solo here, don't see why he couldn't buy Buddy enough time to use it. As for the healing items, Joy is really tiny and she "can just like, put her guard up while she does it."

I think it's kinda impossible to miss in-game, but she probably does need to land the slashes, since she only gains them upon actually doing damage, so yeah
I guess she'd just need to refill stamina with the Rando Rations, or just getting hit cause she gains SP from getting hit lol

But as you said, this is an enclosed space, and Hat Kid won't be all that far away from your guys. So either the TNT is thrown at close range and hits Hat Kid and your people, or it's thrown way long-range and Empress has plenty of time to run away from the bomb.

I can see Hat Kid doing it with the Time Stop Hat, Scouter badge and stuff, but don't really see Empress reacting that quick tho

It is slow, but it curves to hit things, and they are in an enclosed hallway, not the large open spaces the Metro had. And yeah, I mentioned her rocket launcher being weaker than her claws, but it's still not going to just tickle. Also, didn't you say they scale to Brad and Co? If they are stronger than no sell than they might be stronger than the tournament allows

I think it being so slow leaves it open to Rando just like, throwing a fireball at it if it comes close, it doesn't cost that much SP and he again can just refill it. For their AP;

TL;DR: End Game Buddy >≈ Joy Mutant Buzzo > Buzzo ≈ Sweetheart >>> Rando >> Failure Brad >> End Game Brad and Co ≈< 0.062 Tons

> = Defeated in a fight/Just vaguely stronger
>> = Stomps
>>> = One-shots

Empress can also just one-shot Hat Kid, but that doesn't really put her over the tournament's AP qualification thing,
They're closer to Empress' AP than Hat Kid's, basically

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Hat Kid has access to Time Pieces as well, tho she doesn't use them like Mustache girl did, if absolutely pushed to her limit then she'll use them to give herself an edge like BFR'ing them to a pocket dimension or rewinding the fight to a previous point, and again killing Hat Kid, is only gonna result in her being brought back by Snatcher since she has contracts to fulfill.

She never uses them against the Death Wish bosses, I think she won't resort to them, especially since (If we say that the Snatcher revive thing is in effect here) she knows they can't kill her, so like, yeah (Also would be too OP for the tourney I would think)

 

[Bruhtelho]

She never uses them against the Death Wish bosses, I think she won't resort to them, especially since (If we say that the Snatcher revive thing is in effect here) she knows they can't kill her, so like, yeah (Also would be too OP for the tourney I would think)

I did note that its out of character big time but its still something she has knowledge of, especially since she used them to revert what Mustache girl did.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

It's honestly pretty funny how every LISA character wincon goes back to them being able to do this

 

[DrGreyman]

She never uses them against the Death Wish bosses, I think she won't resort to them, especially since (If we say that the Snatcher revive thing is in effect here) she knows they can't kill her, so like, yeah (Also would be too OP for the tourney I would think)

yeah like i said in the tourney thread even if the snatcher revived her he would revive her out of the fight, so i don't think that really counts
also I would rather lose than be disqualified lol

Its description does mention shrouding Buddy in smoke, but even if we don't count that, Rando is still kinda there, especially since Hat Kid is going in solo here, don't see why he couldn't buy Buddy enough time to use it. As for the healing items, Joy is really tiny and she "can just like, put her guard up while she does it."

That's fair enough, though buying time for one also means being less defensive, so one of them could still get some hits in, just on the other enemy

I think it's kinda impossible to miss in-game, but she probably does need to land the slashes, since she only gains them upon actually doing damage, so yeah
I guess she'd just need to refill stamina with the Rando Rations, or just getting hit cause she gains SP from getting hit lol

so she gets SP from hitting or getting hit. THats fun. But SP doesn't directly correlate to health I'm assuming, it correlates to how much she can heal, and if both of them spend the entire fight healing through skills or cramming rations into them they won't be doing a lot of actually throwing punches, and that just makes Hat Kid's maneuverability even better.
not exactly sure how it works in Lisa but in most RPGs using items takes a turn

I can see Hat Kid doing it with the Time Stop Hat, Scouter badge and stuff, but don't really see Empress reacting that quick tho

again, very long range. it's true she has slower reactions than Hat Kid but i would say if she saw a bundle of dynamite flying through the air at her she would move out of the way

I think it being so slow leaves it open to Rando just like, throwing a fireball at it if it comes close, it doesn't cost that much SP and he again can just refill it.

how many items can they hold? like, even if my idea of them taking time to eat doesn't work I'm assuming they don't have infinite food at all times

End Game Buddy >≈ Joy Mutant Buzzo > Buzzo ≈ Sweetheart >>> Rando >> Failure Brad >> End Game Brad and Co ≈< 0.062 Tons

gotta love scaling chains
uhhhhhhhhh, ****. well, i'd think they would be taking some damage from hat kid and the rockets, cus again the max is 500mj
that makes thing, difficult, feel like i have to just repeat what i said at the beginning...

 

[Bruhtelho]

yeah like i said in the tourney thread even if the snatcher revived her he would revive her out of the fight, so i don't think that really counts
also I would rather lose than be disqualified lol

Snatcher has never revived out of fights before, if she loses in a fight, Snatcher drops her right back into when she started it (it being at the start is probably game mechanics) and he even states "don't think you can get out of the contract that easily" if she loses. K.O hat kid still works tho since she wouldn't technically be "dead". also he was talking about time pieces being too op for the tournament

lets not ignore that time stop + the projectile badge can be devastating since they're in an enclosed hallway and the projectile badge has some decent size and range to it possibly allowing her to hit both.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

how many items can they hold? like, even if my idea of them taking time to eat doesn't work I'm assuming they don't have infinite food at all times

(For reference End Game Buddy and Rando have like 2000 HP)
Buddy starts the game with x3 Mystery Jerky (300 HP), x3 Domestic Jerky (1000 HP) and x3 Joy (Full HP) and Rando seems to carry around x8 Rando Rations (Full HP and SP).
Buddy can get a bunch of other items throughout the game, SP restoring Colas, TNT is required to progress, and every Joy Mutant slain drops x3 Joy, there's like 10 you need to fight. Most players I think end up with around 20-30 Joy by the end of the game from what I've seen.

again, very long range. it's true she has slower reactions than Hat Kid but i would say if she saw a bundle of dynamite flying through the air at her she would move out of the way

Fair nuff.

so she gets SP from hitting or getting hit. THats fun. But SP doesn't directly correlate to health I'm assuming, it correlates to how much she can heal, and if both of them spend the entire fight healing through skills or cramming rations into them they won't be doing a lot of actually throwing punches, and that just makes Hat Kid's maneuverability even better.
not exactly sure how it works in Lisa but in most RPGs using items takes a turn

Yeah, SP correlates more to stamina I'd say, Mend requires 7 SP to Buddy's 22 starting SP (Max of 100 SP)
I just think the main problem the AHiT duo will face is that they can't really outdamage the healing, especially since Buddy probably won't even need to use any healing items with the SP build-up thing. Empress might be able to do it if she attacks them early on, but even then one Joy is all it takes to make Buddy too strong for that to work.