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Tier 7 Prototype?

WeeklyBattles said:
Okay, you know what, fine, lets use rices calc siez. The calc does not take into account:
Inverse square law

The fact that it was multiple smaller explosions, not a single explosion

The explosions did not even bring the building all the way down, only half

Yet the outcome was tier 7

???
Click to expand...
I also linked the thermobaric tank, which one shots the base (which destroys in the same fashion), the same one I linked earlier with Heller that he tanked/shielded for no damage. Even if either one of the two have no direct feat of taking the hit straight on, they scale.

"The explosions did not even bring the building all the way down, only half"

There we go with the game mechanics again.

@Assalt
 
@Unite The Thermobaric tank did not oneshot the base, it was a chain of multiple explosions

Its not game mechanics, thats quite literally what happens in the cutscene
 
Assaltwaffle said:
Can we not make this staff-only? It isn't like the staff kept this calm and collected in the first place. While I agree with Weekly personally, the other knowledgeable users very well may prove useful in this discussion.

We don't need to move everything to staff only.
Click to expand...
Okay, but everybody involved need to make an effort to remain nice and rational.
 
1. A single thermobaric tank shot can one-shot any base structure, except for Elizabeth Greene's.

2. Yes, the cutscene which shows a dwarfed version of the base you were just inside. The same base that has standing walls that were breathing on the neck of the explosives.

It's completely crazy to accept such a faulty representation of something we were given two better sources of.
 
Ok. Looking at the calculation itself and the video, here are my opinions.

Multiple explosions: Valid. Many explosions brought it down, including 3 large ones.

Only half the building: Not valid. Looks to be purely gameplay mechanics. For all intents and purposes that building should be treated as gone.

Inverse Square law: Semi-Valid. One of the larger explosions was dead on Alex, but all others were farther away, especially if the building is larger in reality than in game.

The Calculation itself: Potentially flawed. The base looks to be made out of concrete, not normal Earth. Concrete has a lower fragmentation value than Earth. That said it looks to be reinforced concrete, so iron is likely to be interlaced in the building. Still doesn't hit the V.Frag. value of normal Earth though.
 
@Assalt Look at the link Fhf posted, the bases are split in half every time instead of being completely collapsed, even after the cutscene. Its not game mechanics

Would you be able to redo the calc?
 
@Weekly

I know what it shows, that seems to be only gameplay based. I don't think that should be used to nerf the feat.
 
It is gameplay mechanics. How does an explosion to one side of the building cause a complete explosive chain reaction across every side of the building, yet the building is for all intents and purposes still possibly standing?

Also @Assalt

Yeah I could use the frag value of 6 instead of 8, but then again the base is heavily fortified beyond normal building measures, so there's possibly steel or some other composite material.
 
@UMR

The tier 7 results didn't come from frag. value of 6, they came from a v. frag. value of 69. The normal fragmentation results were 8-A. But you also used 70% hollowness instead of 80%, so the fortification compensation may have already been accounted for.

@Weekly

Not sure if it needs an outright redo. Some numbers adjustments is probably all it takes.
 
Yeah I got 8-A, Fan's suggestion was 7-C.

Additionally, all the explosions from the Mercer base event were on ground level, yet the gameplay dictation of the feat shows literally the entire base of the building still standing, the surrounding streets/buildings are fine, etc.

Clearly game limitations.

I could see his argument for violent fragmentation though. Look at what happens when a thermobaric shell lands a few meters away from a house . It gets shattered, and there wasn't even direct contact. Thermobaric ammo are also considerably stronger when inside a confined area.
 
I want to clear something up, i wasn't saying the base destruction was 7-C, i was using it as supporting evidence for them to be at that tier though, and that was only if the calc was accepted.
 
Fhfhghghg said:
I want to clear something up, i wasn't saying the base destruction was 7-C, i was using it as supporting evidence for them to be at that tier though, and that was only if the calc was accepted.
Click to expand...
Nothing else puts them at that tier though...
 
Alright. I'll lowball this to put up a base for the minimum this thing is.

First off we're dropping the hollowness. Down to 80%. 399013.96075344*0.2 = 79802.7921507 m^3

Add 6 orders of magnitude converting m^3 to cm^3. 79802792150.7 cm^3

Apply V.Frag. of concrete. 79802792150.7*20 = 1.5960558x10^12 joules (for reference this is 8-A atm)

Divide by 3 to compensate for the big 3 explosions needed to take it down and the one that Alex tanked point-blank. 1.5960558x10^12/3 = 532018614338 joules or 127.1555 tons of TNT, 8-A, Multi-City Block level.

So the dead baseline for this is 8-A.
 
@WeeklyBattles

That's not what i meant.

The argument was are or aren't they 7-C, so i gave some feats that could be around that tier, or far weaker feats from fodder level characters.

Anyway, it's irrelevant now.
 
The building feat being 7-C/8-A

Elizabeth Greene scaling hilariously above Alex to the point where the same thermobaric explosion put a big crack in the wall, can one-shot

Supreme Hunter being stronger/comparable than Alex who consumed Greene, can one-shot

If you fail the cutscene and the nuke goes off while you are on the ship, it doesn't say Alex died (regen, but still tens of thousands of times what you think he should be at)

People in P2 no-sell the thermobaric threat

Amped Alex

Heller post-Alex (or in general, since he was already stronger)

Top-tier infected/evolved

@Assalt

So for the thermobaric tank feat, simply multiplying the result by 3 = 381.45 tons
 
@Fhf I know you meant well but what i mean is when the only other two feats in the tier 7 range 1) nearly killed the character when they werent even close to it and 2) is a specifically MUCH stronger attack than what theyre normally capable of...it doesnt really support anything
 
1. If you fail the mission, Alex is directly above it and still doesn't die.

2. Devastators = their own biomass, which can be used in critical mass, which in itself already boosts their power even without devastators. They're simply expelling what they're made of in an ultra deadly fashion.
 
1. He was still reduced to paste by the nuke, he didnt survive by being durable, he survived through Regenerationn. That is not enough to warrant him being tier 7

2. Then do a lowball KE calc of the Devastator and use that
 
Unite My Rice said:
1. If you fail the mission, Alex is directly above it and still doesn't die.
Click to expand...
Seems like an oversight from the developers. I'm willing to bet that he did die, since even after escaping the epicenter in helicopter, he still got pasted.
 
N o b o d y b e s i d e s y o u i s u s i n g t h e n u k e f o r T i e r 7 (which only scales to end-game Heller)

2. I'll see, though it's probably unnecessary.
 
@UMR

You kind of are trying to use the nuke... You specifically say, as an arguing point, "If you fail the mission, Alex is directly above it and still doesn't die." If this is a moot point and you know it then why mention it?
 
If only the Activation made Prototype 3 to confirm the power of the verse. Pretty sure Radical Entertainment closed though.
 
" 1) nearly killed the character when they werent even close to it and "

Because I was replying to that. And by your own admission, you admit Alex surviving the nuke isn't a durability feat, yet you claimed it as a feat, again.

I'm just clarifying everything.
 
"I know you meant well but what i mean is when the only other two feats in the tier 7 range"

But no need to further beat a dead horse, I'll calc stuff.
 
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