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Whats the discussion?
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Tier 7 Prototype?
- Thread starter Schnee_One
- Start date
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- prototype
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- Thread starter
- #42
Everything UMR is saying about Tier 7 being correct?
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@UMR Can you actually post the things youre claiming instead of just saying theyre in your blog? Because im still very doubtful of them being legitimate.
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1. He still got splattered, he did not survive through durability, he survived through regen. Its not a durability feat, and thus cannot be treated as such.Unite My Rice said:
2. Link?
4. No, you would use the in-game size, not concept art that is much larger than what is depicted.
5. That doesn not mean his defensive forme can tank it when they never displayed the ability to.
9. Still not an AP feat, its range at best.
10. None of the arguments here are using game mechanics, and Teen, Fhf, and i are all varying levels of knowledgeable on the Prototype verse
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1. I never suggested it was a durability feat, and I've made it clear it only applies to Heller.
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxoONjdFloo&feature=youtu.be
4. No, because even in-game, the interior is vastly larger than the exterior of the base we're shown. The outside representation of the game is contradicted by both the internal representation, and the official art.
5. Yeah, but his armored form drastically reduces damage, and he took the nuke on without attempting to defend himself.
9. You are aware that there are profiles that use flooding feats / environmental damage similar to this?
10. Yes, they are from game mechanics. Most, if not all of the things listed above come from game mechanics, and are things that he can do when he first gets his powers. Suggesting that he needs powers (or upgraded powers at that) and near-maxed stats to do something he can accomplish very early makes no sense.
"Can you actually post the things youre claiming instead of just saying theyre in your blog?"
There's a reason I spent weeks working on that blog.
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxoONjdFloo&feature=youtu.be
4. No, because even in-game, the interior is vastly larger than the exterior of the base we're shown. The outside representation of the game is contradicted by both the internal representation, and the official art.
5. Yeah, but his armored form drastically reduces damage, and he took the nuke on without attempting to defend himself.
9. You are aware that there are profiles that use flooding feats / environmental damage similar to this?
10. Yes, they are from game mechanics. Most, if not all of the things listed above come from game mechanics, and are things that he can do when he first gets his powers. Suggesting that he needs powers (or upgraded powers at that) and near-maxed stats to do something he can accomplish very early makes no sense.
"Can you actually post the things youre claiming instead of just saying theyre in your blog?"
There's a reason I spent weeks working on that blog.
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1. And Heller tanked the same nuke where exactly?
2. Those are nowhere near tier 7 explosions.
4. That doesnt matter, its like that for a LOT of games. You cannot just ignore how the building is depicted because it has a larger interior due to gameplay purposes.
5. Unless he actually has a feat of directly tanking it, we cant use it.
9. Hence why theyre considered environmental damage, not actual AP. See Alucard's profile as an example.
10. Early or not theyre still feats
You spent weeks working on it, surely you can pick out things from it to back your claims
2. Those are nowhere near tier 7 explosions.
4. That doesnt matter, its like that for a LOT of games. You cannot just ignore how the building is depicted because it has a larger interior due to gameplay purposes.
5. Unless he actually has a feat of directly tanking it, we cant use it.
9. Hence why theyre considered environmental damage, not actual AP. See Alucard's profile as an example.
10. Early or not theyre still feats
You spent weeks working on it, surely you can pick out things from it to back your claims
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Are you going to make a calc version of the in game representation the?
Prototype Mercer Must Contain The Hunters In The Military Base HD 60FPS 1080p - YouTube
Prototype Stealthy Base Takeover - YouTube
latest (1920×871) Hives have the same dimension as bases.
Prototype Mercer Must Contain The Hunters In The Military Base HD 60FPS 1080p - YouTube
Prototype Stealthy Base Takeover - YouTube
latest (1920×871) Hives have the same dimension as bases.
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Or you guys can read my blog and stop bothering me with yet another thread about this.
1. Supreme Hunter said he could withstand that nuke after consuming Mercer, and Heller is > Both of them.
2. Yeah, because you're insistent on using a size that's contradicted twice.
4. We can ignore it, because it makes no sense. This isn't some magical supernatural video game.
5. You're reading to reply, not to understand. All I'm saying is he had tools at his disposal that he didn't use.
9. Except Heller expands his mass for multiple kilometers in any direction in seconds. Having hundreds of thousands of people consumed already makes him Tier 7 via KE. Alucard just floods the streets with souls/bodies. Heller is using his own power.
10. No, you're using feats from random points in the game to justify a downgrade, where he can do 99% of those same feats from the very beginning.
@fhf
There's no good angle on the base to see anything, but for all intents and purposes, the art = the in game base, just rearranged in the interior.
1. Supreme Hunter said he could withstand that nuke after consuming Mercer, and Heller is > Both of them.
2. Yeah, because you're insistent on using a size that's contradicted twice.
4. We can ignore it, because it makes no sense. This isn't some magical supernatural video game.
5. You're reading to reply, not to understand. All I'm saying is he had tools at his disposal that he didn't use.
9. Except Heller expands his mass for multiple kilometers in any direction in seconds. Having hundreds of thousands of people consumed already makes him Tier 7 via KE. Alucard just floods the streets with souls/bodies. Heller is using his own power.
10. No, you're using feats from random points in the game to justify a downgrade, where he can do 99% of those same feats from the very beginning.
@fhf
There's no good angle on the base to see anything, but for all intents and purposes, the art = the in game base, just rearranged in the interior.
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1. Speculation at best considering neither of them actually tanked the nuke and he never actually absorbed Mercer to prove that he would be able to. Either way we cannot use the nuke feat.
2. So you want us to believe those small explosions are tier 7? No.
4. No, we cannot ignore it, we have to go by what is portrayed in the cutscene, not something that is portrayed differently in concept art.
5. If he used them and they worked it would be legit. He didnt so we cannot just randomly assume they still work when there are no feats whatsoever to back it up.
9. Okay, then calc THAT instead of just using guesswork and size to say he's tier 7 from that. And that still wouldnt scale to his general AP
10. Because there is nothing above those feats anywhere in BOTH games. All of the alleged tier 7 feats you are trying to use are based on speculation and innacuracies. Quite literally the only feat that could possibly be legit tier 7 is the Devestator but its not an actual AP feat.
2. So you want us to believe those small explosions are tier 7? No.
4. No, we cannot ignore it, we have to go by what is portrayed in the cutscene, not something that is portrayed differently in concept art.
5. If he used them and they worked it would be legit. He didnt so we cannot just randomly assume they still work when there are no feats whatsoever to back it up.
9. Okay, then calc THAT instead of just using guesswork and size to say he's tier 7 from that. And that still wouldnt scale to his general AP
10. Because there is nothing above those feats anywhere in BOTH games. All of the alleged tier 7 feats you are trying to use are based on speculation and innacuracies. Quite literally the only feat that could possibly be legit tier 7 is the Devestator but its not an actual AP feat.
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This is just about point one, two and nine.
Alex Mercer gets one shot thermobaric weapons in the first game (unless he has adrenaline surge), but Heller can withstand 6-8 upgraded versions of these, so Heller is far above a fully upgraded Alex Mercer, and likely the Supreme Hunter.
It's called area of effect, for example, Heller and Mercer can produce shockwaves capable of covering a few meters, but it should be buildings worth it size. Normal missiles can fragment a Tank in two shots, yet, they are barely the size of a small car explosion.
The Devastator does somewhat confer to his Strength and Durability, as it one shots normal enemies, but evolved and juggernauts survive, Heller can damage these opponents, and tank hits from them.
Alex Mercer gets one shot thermobaric weapons in the first game (unless he has adrenaline surge), but Heller can withstand 6-8 upgraded versions of these, so Heller is far above a fully upgraded Alex Mercer, and likely the Supreme Hunter.
It's called area of effect, for example, Heller and Mercer can produce shockwaves capable of covering a few meters, but it should be buildings worth it size. Normal missiles can fragment a Tank in two shots, yet, they are barely the size of a small car explosion.
The Devastator does somewhat confer to his Strength and Durability, as it one shots normal enemies, but evolved and juggernauts survive, Heller can damage these opponents, and tank hits from them.
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@Fhf Im not arguing that Heller is weaker than them, i completely believe he's stronger, im just arguing that theyre not tier 7 from those feats
AoE =/= AP
AoE =/= AP
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I can see them being High 8-C P1 and High 8-C, likely 8-B P2 but no tier 7 for their general AP
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I'd like to start with this, Hives and Bases can withstand 9-A - 8-C level attacks with little damage.
Elizabeth Greene/Mother - Large Building Level - Town Level
Like i said in the previous thread of feats, Greene is compared to seismic activity.
Green destroys the street just by moving.
Your Bullet Dive, which would destroy a Hive in 1-4 Shots from that height, causes little damage to Greene. If UMR's calc is still accepted, this can actually be a really good feat for characters like Greene, and all the Hunters.
This isn't really scaling, rather justification for one of UMR's points (not proof though, i'm not picking a side). Alex will get one shot by the Crimson shockwave, however with armor he can take it with moderate damage. 4:43, 7:00.
8:56 Implies that Elizabeth withstood the Nuke dropped on Hope, Idaho. However Hope is 122 Ha, or 1.22 square kilometers. 2.51 Kilotons if accepted.
Walkers - Wall Level - Low Small Building Level - Building Level
Are quite durable. 6:57 on wards.
They take more than one bullet to take dow. 2:22.
Can hurt Mercer with full upgrades. 4:18.
10:48 Can somewhat withstand tank guns capable of shoting down a helicopter.
1:17:03 Can fight with Mercer, though he is far stronger and takes their hits like it's nothing.
There was going to be a ton more, but there isn't that much scaling in the series.
Elizabeth Greene/Mother - Large Building Level - Town Level
Like i said in the previous thread of feats, Greene is compared to seismic activity.
Green destroys the street just by moving.
Your Bullet Dive, which would destroy a Hive in 1-4 Shots from that height, causes little damage to Greene. If UMR's calc is still accepted, this can actually be a really good feat for characters like Greene, and all the Hunters.
This isn't really scaling, rather justification for one of UMR's points (not proof though, i'm not picking a side). Alex will get one shot by the Crimson shockwave, however with armor he can take it with moderate damage. 4:43, 7:00.
8:56 Implies that Elizabeth withstood the Nuke dropped on Hope, Idaho. However Hope is 122 Ha, or 1.22 square kilometers. 2.51 Kilotons if accepted.
Walkers - Wall Level - Low Small Building Level - Building Level
Are quite durable. 6:57 on wards.
They take more than one bullet to take dow. 2:22.
Can hurt Mercer with full upgrades. 4:18.
10:48 Can somewhat withstand tank guns capable of shoting down a helicopter.
1:17:03 Can fight with Mercer, though he is far stronger and takes their hits like it's nothing.
There was going to be a ton more, but there isn't that much scaling in the series.
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Greene is not tier 7 for those shockwaves, but thats consistently tier 8
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All feats supporting tier 7. Alex Mercer - Wasn't vaporized by a city level weapon, even though he took it near point blank.
Supreme Hunter says he could withstand the nuke by absorbing Alex
Base Explosions
Goliath would eventually destroy the Zones
Heller's Devastator
Greene Town Level - It's implied she withstood it, but we never see how damaged she was, nor do we actually know if she was hit.
Project Firehawk - A series of Thermobaric weapons were going to level the City - Time frame unknown, Heller said it'd kill him, which 6 - 8 do, however, a downgraded version one Shot 100% upgraded Mercer (Unless he has adrenaline surge).
Supreme Hunter says he could withstand the nuke by absorbing Alex
Base Explosions
Goliath would eventually destroy the Zones
Heller's Devastator
Greene Town Level - It's implied she withstood it, but we never see how damaged she was, nor do we actually know if she was hit.
Project Firehawk - A series of Thermobaric weapons were going to level the City - Time frame unknown, Heller said it'd kill him, which 6 - 8 do, however, a downgraded version one Shot 100% upgraded Mercer (Unless he has adrenaline surge).
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- Thread starter
- #59
No 8A huh :/
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1. Not speculation, its a clear cut statement. We aren't using the nuke feat, but Supreme Hunter's statement. Do we have to prove DB characters are universal when literally nobody besides Zeno has destroyed a universe? Even if we did use the nuke feat, the fact that he survived it does speak to his durability, even if he was in pieces. Unless you're saying a building level guy can survive a blast that's over 60000x his current level. And gamma radiation from nukes can destroy dna molecules, so regen is only a partial factor. Even if you fail the mission, it says New York was destroyed when the nuke goes off, not Alex is dead. And this is when you're literally standing on top of the nuke while you're on the ship, I'd have to replay the game to get the screenshot tho.
2. I'll take the evaluations of two calc members over what you believe.
4. You're annoying me now. You're saying they're two different buildings basically.
5. >And they worked
Why wouldn't his powers work? This statement makes no sense.
9. Clearly you don't know what a calc is if you're calling anything here guesswork. Besides, there's too many tendrils to account for.
>Still wouldn't apply to his general AP
Kinetic energy.
10.
2. I'll take the evaluations of two calc members over what you believe.
4. You're annoying me now. You're saying they're two different buildings basically.
5. >And they worked
Why wouldn't his powers work? This statement makes no sense.
9. Clearly you don't know what a calc is if you're calling anything here guesswork. Besides, there's too many tendrils to account for.
>Still wouldn't apply to his general AP
Kinetic energy.
10.
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Even if we go my my original calc and not Fan's tier 7 suggestion, it's 2.28x 8-A.
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1. Listen very carefully. Unless there is an actual feat of the Supreme Hunter absorbing Alex and tanking the nuke, we're not going to use it. Both Alex and the SH were SEVERELY damage by being anywhere NEAR the nuke, they are nowhere near durable enough to survive it.
2. Which calc members? I'll need to have a word with them.
4. Yes, because the building youre trying to use IS a different building that youre treating as the same.
5. Did they allow him to survive the nuke?
9. ALL of what youve done so far is guesswork. If there's too many then use a lowball for what you CAN account for.
9B. Kinetic Energy that doesnt apply to his general AP
10. Okay, i'll take that as an acknowledgement that im correct
2. Which calc members? I'll need to have a word with them.
4. Yes, because the building youre trying to use IS a different building that youre treating as the same.
5. Did they allow him to survive the nuke?
9. ALL of what youve done so far is guesswork. If there's too many then use a lowball for what you CAN account for.
9B. Kinetic Energy that doesnt apply to his general AP
10. Okay, i'll take that as an acknowledgement that im correct
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How about we go with literally any other calc member and have them redo the calcUnite My Rice said:
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I agree with Weekly.
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1. Not listening to someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.
2. They both left the wiki
4. No it's not.
5. You're still being extremely dense about this specific point so moving on.
9. I've done no guesswork, yet you want me to do a guesswork calc.
9-B. ???????????????????????????lol ok
10. Alright just don't go editing anymore pages to suit your needs bud.
2. They both left the wiki
4. No it's not.
5. You're still being extremely dense about this specific point so moving on.
9. I've done no guesswork, yet you want me to do a guesswork calc.
9-B. ???????????????????????????lol ok
10. Alright just don't go editing anymore pages to suit your needs bud.
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Wow, defensive much?
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Anyways, should i highlight this? It could use more admin support
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Not trying to help it. Whats wrong with my argument?
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More admin support, aka more people unknowledegable about the verse, aka your arguments are flawed, you can't logically debate for yourself, and you're calling for backup.
Wow, defensive much?
Wow, defensive much?
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Not being knowledgeable on the verse shouldn't stop more people from evaluating this.
"aka your arguments are flawed, you can't logically debate for yourself, and you're calling for backup."
Now you're just being unnecessarily rude. Stop.
"aka your arguments are flawed, you can't logically debate for yourself, and you're calling for backup."
Now you're just being unnecessarily rude. Stop.
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@Rice Im sorry but your claims have been debunked and no one is agreeing with the defensive arguments youre making. No need to be aggressive, im sorry your vere is going to be downgraded but there's no need to be rude about it.
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Who said I was saying anything was wrong, I'm just saying it'd be best not to reply to it with "Defensive much?" unless you're really looking to start something. It's not a contribution to the argument nor are you refuting anything at all, you're just pointing at him and saying "haha look at this silly boy haha".
The more Rice pelts in the more you yell back. It's going to make a big SUCC until everyone forgets what they're doing in the first place.
The more Rice pelts in the more you yell back. It's going to make a big SUCC until everyone forgets what they're doing in the first place.
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Fair enough
So do you agree with the downgrade or no?
So do you agree with the downgrade or no?
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How so?
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UMR you blew what i said out of preportion for pretty much no reason, i'll repeat it in a scaled down version.
1. Can likely survive it with minimal damage as Mercer, a far weaker opponent, already withstood it.
2. Didn't die from a city level weapon.
3. Refuse to comment.
4. Maybe could destroy a city, but i refused to say he could due to NFL.
5. Maybe Town Level
6. Would bombard a city.
7. People go back and forth.
But you know what, i'm going to edit most of it out, because people like you take it out of context, and i'm sorry if this is rude, but you were also being rude.
1. Can likely survive it with minimal damage as Mercer, a far weaker opponent, already withstood it.
2. Didn't die from a city level weapon.
3. Refuse to comment.
4. Maybe could destroy a city, but i refused to say he could due to NFL.
5. Maybe Town Level
6. Would bombard a city.
7. People go back and forth.
But you know what, i'm going to edit most of it out, because people like you take it out of context, and i'm sorry if this is rude, but you were also being rude.
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