Tier 3-A/Low 2-C Saint Seiya Ap Revisions (Gold Saints, and Scaling)

[Archaron]

Again, here we are.

• One thing that needs to be specified is that if you are going to mix the works of saint seiya as all being canonical, this is a mistake, because it makes no sense, while the Galaxian Explosion of Episode G is Multi-Galaxy, the Galaxian Explosion of the classic is said to only be capable of destroying the stars of the galaxy, and also, the Shaka "Khan" in Episode G can withstand even lapeto attacks, while in the classic, the barrier gave way to the 3 renegade saints, and I also have to to mention that the attacks made on him were not of the universal level of the lapeto himself, but of the lives of his planet, only later after he absorbed Themis his attacks reached that level, and at that same level, even the strongest technique and with a power that rivals a miracle, it cannot stop for less than 1 second lapeto. Shaka's "Tenbu Horin" technique with its eyes open is equivalent if not even stronger than the starlight extinction that mu used against the dimension of the iapet, which was also a miracle. While Mu could perform miracles at will in the universe of Episode G, that of the classic could not even rival Radamanthys with the hades barrier. Episode G is one thing and classic is another, even though they share the same chronological events, they are different universes with different levels of powers.
  • I strongly recommend not mixing the classic with Episode G, they have different levels, different events and especially even the characters from the next Dimension that appear in Assassin, have a different appearance, like deathtoll, only in assassin shura was trained by capricorn izo, the classic itself cites that only shion and dohko survived the previous war.

• As for Athena Exclamation, even if it is able to break or cut the universe, that is, in assassin only, the saints fought at the edge of the underworld, as if they were in the transitory passage from the real world to the underworld, and not really within the underworld to the point of reaching all the hells, this is guesswork, since even the saints who just watched could still feel the cosmos of shura, saga and deathmask.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

• "Galaxian Explosion of Episode G is Multi-Galaxy, the Galaxian Explosion of the classic is said to only be capable of destroying the stars of the galaxy"

Being "capable of destroying the stars of the galaxy" doesn't strictly mean it can't destroy "multiple galaxies" again that is an issue with range. DC =/=AP

• "Shaka "Khan" in Episode G can withstand even lapeto attacks, while in the classic, the barrier gave way to the 3 renegade saints"
  
  

Thats actually a supporting feat for tier 3/2

• " also have to to mention that the attacks made on him were not of the universal level of the lapeto himself, but of the lives of his planet,"
  
  

Iapeto was a Titan who fought aganist the Olympians. Iapeto also stated that he would have achieved full power with just his planets. this wasn't factoring in the buff he got from his wife

• "even the strongest technique and with a power that rivals a miracle, it cannot stop for less than 1 second lapeto. Shaka's "Tenbu Horin" technique with its eyes open is equivalent if not even stronger than the starlight extinction that mu used against the dimension of the iapet, which was also a miracle"
  

Shakas Tenbu Horin is pure hax, and not neccarsily something AP oriented. Aries Mu though, i do agree wuth the part of it being a miracle, but miracles have a whole lot more context than that when viewing them through the entire series

• "While Mu could perform miracles at will in the universe of Episode G, that of the classic could not even rival Radamanthys with the hades barrier"

Radamanthys also stated that he could have easily handled all 3 of them without the barrier. Radamanthys should also be above baseline Tier 3/2, and Aries Mu cannot pop off miracles like candy the same way Seiya can. i also don't see how this is an anti-feat?

• "As for Athena Exclamation, even if it is able to break or cut the universe, that is, in assassin only, the saints fought at the edge of the underworld, as if they were in the transitory passage from the real world to the underworld, and not really within the underworld to the point of reaching all the hells, this is guesswork, since even the knights who just watched could still feel the cosmos of shura, saga and deathmask."

Shadow of the Underworld is still apart of "The Underworld"

• "the classic itself cites that only shion and dohko survived the previous war."

you do know that the other gold saints were revived right??


again, i still strongly disagree with separating the franchsie as i still see no reason too. I don't see anything about vastly different power levels.

 

[KoolRay]

I disagree with Taurus and somewhat Dragon Shiryu and Milo. Taurus was more of an explanation of how cosmo and the 7th sense works. Dragon was more Him directing the force with his cosmo. Milo I believe rather than just defend against GE he defended and avoided part of it.

Ikki awakens the 7th sense plus having all of his senses removed to heighten his cosmo to that level.

As for the Hypermyth, it should not be taken as anything more than lore and complementary material. Future works if contradicts are of course the real cano.

Everything else makes sense to me.

 

[Archaron]

1. Being "capable of destroying the stars of the galaxy" doesn't strictly mean it can't destroy "multiple galaxies" again that is an issue with range. DC =/=AP

• In fact both contradict each other, one implies destructive level X, while the other is Y, they have no correlation outside the technique itself, so you point out that, being weaker does not imply that it is not equal to the stronger it is a fallacy.

1. Thats actually a supporting feat for tier 3/2

• Tier 3 at most

1. Iapeto was a Titan who fought aganist the Olympians. Iapeto also stated that he would have achieved full power with just his planets. this wasn't factoring in the buff he got from his wife

• His full power would only come with the success of the titans in his plan with the help of pontus, even though he can buff himself, it is still not enough to put him on a level with him in the age of the gods.

1. Shakas Tenbu Horin is pure hax, and not neccarsily something AP oriented. Aries Mu though, i do agree wuth the part of it being a miracle, but miracles have a whole lot more context than that when viewing them through the entire series

• Tenbu Horin mixes both attack and defense, and even saga, shura and camus were unable to face this technique, it does imply in AP, not because it is destructive, but because it is superior both in attack and in defense to various techniques, this includes the Galaxian Explosion. Miracle from G /=/ Miracles from another series

1. Radamanthys also stated that he could have easily handled all 3 of them without the barrier. Radamanthys should also be above baseline Tier 3/2, and Aries Mu cannot pop off miracles like candy the same way Seiya can. i also don't see how this is an anti-feat?

• Should I mention that ikki hit one of the 3 judges from hell without using his seventh sense? Should I mention that canon said that without the barrier, Radamanthys would not have beaten even one of the Three? You forgot that in Episode G, it is only your will that the saints perform miracles, especially the golds.

1. Shadow of the Underworld is still apart of "The Underworld"

• This you have to prove, since even deathmask with your technique can access this place.

1. you do know that the other gold saints were revived right??

• Izo trained shura, at that time saga was still a good saint, before he was corrupted, shura was a child, this comes even before Episode G, he was not revived, he was already alive, this implies that my claim to be different timelines and universes with similar yet different events is true.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

i'll respond a bit later on. irl stuff

 

[Alonik]

@TheUpgradeManHaHaxD

If that is what Kurumada uses. Then why doens't he use it? Here for example, Kurumada uses "Õ░ÅÕ«çÕ«Ö" [1] There also isn't a word for "Microuniverse/Micro-universe" in japanese [2] [3]

What a more contradictory comment. First you claim that Kurumada uses the word at one point, and then you say that the word doesn't even exist in japanase, and it's there in your own chapter 1 raw scan. Make up your mind, you're very confused.

About Kurumada's statement, you don't have to question how he used it in X local or not for me, you need to ask to him. I just brought the interview that he tell the reader of Saint Seiya to read "Cosmo" as "microunierse/microcosm"

The scans contradict what your saying. The scene with Aldy he uses the symbols "ÒâôÒââÒé░ÒâÉÒâ│" This means he isn't talking about just "Cosmo" Seiya achieved a literal big bang in attack potency. He was comparing the awakening of the 7th sense as a big bang which mean he was comparing Seiya's power to the big bang. Cosmo = Attack potency = power.

No, the scan doesn't contradict what i say, if you paid more attention to what i say, and not to those kanji you're wanting to impose by other people's mouths...

The mainly question here, is that you think just the word "ÒâôÒââÒé░ÒâÉÒâ│" will change something, this as not proven exactly anything, because the word "Big Bang" exists in all translations whether official or even fan. And the context only gave us one thing, Seiya made a "Big Bang" with his cosmos, after punching at the speed of light with Pegasus Ryu Sei Ken. So Aldebaran said "N-No" his blows have created a big bang! With his senses weakened, his cosmo has grown stronger! When he lost the feeling in his body... His Cosmo--His Sevenseth Sense-- Became more powerful!"






Your mainly argue is just "In Raw scan Aldebaran scream Big Bang", but as already i said, in any translation is said this. That's all, anything will be not changes just by you pick the kanjis, if the thing still the same.


Plus, at absolutely no time does he compare to the power that created the universe (Big Bang), he just sees the pegasus ryu sei ken in front of him staying in the shape of a big bang, so much so that he says "He created a big bang" and not something like you said "His power is like the power that created the universe, the big bang"

And about you staying forcing the kanji of a single balloon, i ask you to look closely at scan, because here where i'll gently mark in red, where have the kanji that i had spoken and you just ignored and throw the only kanjis that you can transcribe.

Õ«çÕ«Ö

No, its not only manga content. it has anime only filler content too [4]

that's not hypermyth, it's the encyclopedia of the anime, that's all.

That would make no sense. The Big Bang gave birth to Time Alongside The Universe. Even if its a small scale, it would still be Low 2-C. it wouldn't be Uncountablely infinitely times inferior simply because "Small scale" also the "Small scale" is becuase its a focused and concentrated attack at a single point. So the range of the ability isn't going to be Tier 3, or tier 2. That is an issue with range

It has nothing to do with being a fosuced in a single point, on the scan that said about the power, Shiryu explain that is a micro size in power compared to the big bang.

Listen to the sentence:

• Is destructive power rival a smaller version of the big bang

I think you know what dot is because the sentence changes when the end point begins.

The sentence makes it clear, "its destructive power rivals w a smaller version of the Big Bang"

"Uncountablely infinitely times inferior"

First, there is no for energy variations, this is only with higher dimensions. No one spoke of range, but of energy variation.

Hades says "All of it!" he also says "My realms! You will also be swept away in my realms destruction!"[5]

And it just proved that the was of him. Nothing that i have not already said. The realm being of him, does not refer to: I created the space of this realm.

profound context? that sounds silly. I see only speculation, and an unreliable "Book" that is exactly what its title is a "Hyper Myth"

But doesn't have any theory, i presented the proof that he did not create the realm, just took to him. And how is unrealiable?

You're only saying that because is contradicting a point that supports you. In the hypermyth itself, Kurumada gives a note that he is the absolute guide, so is canonical.


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Translation
To all the fans,

For the fans of "Saint Seiya" the birth present will be delivered to the characters appearing in. While he is cautious about data that you do not remember, he always feels sorry for those who love his character. I thought, "i will have announce the data of each character someday...", but this serialization was more difficult, and i couldn't get enough of it. I was able to put it all together. For the time being, this is the definitive version of the databook (character data), so thank you.

July 27, 1988

Masami Kurumada (signature)

If you do not want to accept hypermyth, that same argument exists in taizen itself, but it will bring much more reasons to separate the works of saint seiya.


Dos dois irmãos que junto com Zeus, Poseidon recebeu os mares para governar e Hades, o Mundos dos Mortos.

Of the two brother who together with Zeus, Poseidon received the seas to rule and Hades the World of the Deads.

It both Taizen and Hypermyth, there is the same claim that Hades did not create the underworld, he only WON the world of the dead to rule, equal poseidon won the seas.

However keep in mind that hypermyth matches the history of chronos ND, but Taizen says that Athena's father (Chronos ND) has the same plot as the episode G Cronos, of being sealed in Tartarus.

And don't forget, regardless of the version you use, we have an absolute truth; Hades did not created the underworld, he won.

 

[KoolRay]

Have to agree with Alon a bit, scaling the big bang comment simply mkes no sense in context.


I would also suggest not cross-scaling to much it creates a lot of confusion. That being said Hades did create the underworld, he stated that himself and it was going to fall apart without him.

 

[Alonik]

But both in Hypermyth and Taizen it is said that he only conquered, and the other he won by battle alongside Zeus, to have the underworld.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

So then why is it sustained by his existence? If we take that into account we'd have to infer other stuff.

 

[Alonik]

But what is sustained by his existence is only the buildings. The underworld is an extradimensional realm, even after Hades death, souls need keep going there.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

We don't know the aftermath besides Hades' statement though. There's a strong implication that what he said was correct. Athena wanted them to leave quickly. Isn't there more than Hades' afterlife that the dead can go to?

 

[Alonik]

I mean, I know that, I even talked there, but it just shows the buildings being destroyed there.

However, there are other Gods in the underworld and elysium, but it is the only place where souls go, according to Taizen, Hypermyth and classic manga, even next dimension.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I see. That does seem like a contradiction. If it's the only place where souls go and it was destroyed. Where else would they go?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

As for "Shakka holding Big Bangs" and Hades' soul being the universe. I disagree. Shakka is just flaring his cosmo. The Hades' soul being the universe was stated by an ignorant Ikki who thought it was the universe based on visuals.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

@Archaro

• "In fact both contradict each other, one implies destructive level X, while the other is Y, they have no correlation outside the technique itself, so you point out that, being weaker does not imply that it is not equal to the stronger it is a fallacy."

An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces.

We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.

Also, kindly remember that Attack Potency is the measure of Destructive Capacity of an attack, and as such, is measured via its energy damage equivalent. Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack. [1]

• "Tier 3 at most"

That seems fine, i agree

• "His full power would only come with the success of the titans in his plan with the help of pontus, even though he can buff himself, it is still not enough to put him on a level with him in the age of the gods."

Their full power is restricted to only Tartarus [https://s41.mkklcdnv41.com/************/r1/read_saint_seiya_episodeg/chapter_48_the_one_who_carries_the_universe/16.jpg]

A titan has their true power after they absorb their planets only [2]

• "Tenbu Horin mixes both attack and defense, and even saga, shura and camus were unable to face this technique, it does imply in AP, not because it is destructive, but because it is superior both in attack and in defense to various techniques, this includes the Galaxian Explosion"

Tenbu horin's offense and defense comes through hax. The offense and defense hax are BFR, Law Manipulation, Perception Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Pocket Reality Creation, and naturally the other stuff cosmo brings. Its Offensive through the use of Hax, and Defensive through the use of hax.

• "Miracle from G /=/ Miracles from another series"

Unforunately for that statement, miracles are equally represented throughout the entire franchise. Their concept has remained the same, and the way it is represented has remained the same.

• "Should I mention that ikki hit one of the 3 judges from hell without using his seventh sense? "
  

What evidence is there that he didn't use the 7th sense? Also, his is the saint of the phoenix, he grows stronger with every reincarnation, and grows stronger as the battle continues. How is this an anti-feat?

• "Should I mention that canon said that without the barrier, Radamanthys would not have beaten even one of the Three?"

And Rhadamanthys while using Libra Dohko in the same sentence he called Canon "Unfathomablely Powerful" [3], and Canon only says they wouldn't have been beaten so easily. he doesn't say anything about Radamanthys not being able to defeat them [4]

• "you forgot that in Episode G, it is only your will that the saints perform miracles, especially the golds."

What exactly is your point here??

• "This you have to prove, since even deathmask with your technique can access this place"
  

They were at the Entrance to the Underworld [5]


The Entrance of the Underworld is Yomotsu Hirsaka, and its still considered a part of "The Realm of the Dead" and part of "The Underworld"

Deathmask aslo says that this place IS Yomotsu Hirsaka, and the power of Hades is running out of control [6]

• "Izo trained shura, at that time saga was still a good saint, before he was corrupted, shura was a child, this comes even before Episode G, he was not revived, he was already alive, this implies that my claim to be different timelines and universes with similar yet different events is true."

The Shura that appears in Assassins is is a "World Jumper." He came from another Universe/Timeline, and came to the "Main Timeline" So naturally that shura's past will be different from the one in the classic series.


@Alonik

• "What a more contradictory comment. First you claim that Kurumada uses the word at one point, and then you say that the word doesn't even exist in japanase, and it's there in your own chapter 1 raw scan. Make up your mind, you're very confused.
  

About Kurumada's statement, you don't have to question how he used it in X local or not for me, you need to ask to him. I just brought the interview that he tell the reader of Saint Seiya to read "Cosmo" as "microunierse/microcosm"


The Word "Microuniverse/Micro-Universe' that you used doens't exist but "Microcosmo" does exist. The Japanese symbols for microcosmo are "Õ░ÅÕ«çÕ«Ö" I provided links to help understand this. I also said that Kuru used Õ░ÅÕ«çÕ«Ö. why would Kuru use a word that doesn't exist? This feels like a trap to bait me into saying a mistake.


Unforunately Interview statements are considered Word of God (WoG) which is considered Teritary canon, and it doesn't affect the primary canon.

• "No, the scan doesn't contradict what i say, if you paid more attention to what i say, and not to those kanji you're wanting to impose by other people's mouths... The mainly question here, is that you think just the word "ÒâôÒââÒé░ÒâÉÒâ│" will change something, this as not proven exactly anything, because the word "Big Bang" exists in all translations whether official or even fan. And the context only gave us one thing, Seiya made a "Big Bang" with his cosmos, after punching at the speed of light with Pegasus Ryu Sei Ken. So Aldebaran said "N-No" his blows have created a big bang! With his senses weakened, his cosmo has grown stronger! When he lost the feeling in his body... His Cosmo--His Sevenseth Sense-- Became more powerful!"

I don't see what our implying here. it sounds like your agreeing with me. that Seiya achieved a tier 3/2 attack, a big bang. Which also has other supporting feats in the classic series, and outside of it.

• "Plus, at absolutely no time does he compare to the power that created the universe (Big Bang), he just sees the pegasus ryu sei ken in front of him staying in the shape of a big bang, so much so that he says "He created a big bang" and not something like you said "His power is like the power that created the universe, the big bang""

This makes absoultely no sense. this seems like a contradiction of your own words again. "He created a Big Bang" is the same kind of statement that you mentioned later. It is a comparison of power.

• "And about you staying forcing the kanji of a single balloon, i ask you to look closely at scan, because here where i'll gently mark in red, where have the kanji that i had spoken and you just ignored and throw the only kanjis that you can transcribeÕ«çÕ«Ö

It wasn't ignored. your cherrypicking the scan. You seemd to have missed the highlighted part for the kanji of the big bang. Again, this is a comparison of power, that has other supporting scaling feats

• "that's not hypermyth, it's the encyclopedia of the anime, that's all"

you sent me that link..... [7] which link number 2 going from bottom to up has the scans you used... [8] [9]

• "It has nothing to do with being a fosuced in a single point, on the scan that said about the power, Shiryu explain that is a micro size in power compared to the big bang."

An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces.

We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.

Also, kindly remember that Attack Potency is the measure of Destructive Capacity of an attack, and as such, is measured via its energy damage equivalent. Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack. [10]


The attack is focused, and controlled. You can make a comparison to something like "Ki Control"
"focused on a single point" Your own scans also say the same thing. [11]

• "First, there is no for energy variations, this is only with higher dimensions. No one spoke of range, but of energy variation."

There is higher dimensions involved here. The big bang gave birth to time alonside the universe, and yes range is an issue here. otherwise you would have a universe created inside another already existing universe. So it didn't just give birth to just 3D space, but 3 + 1 D = 4D space. Infact it seems chronos gave birth to time alongside the Universe here, and with the Author statement [12]

"What can you tell us about C [h] ronus during Hypermythe?

Kurumada:I need to explain a few things that were actually excluded from the Hypermythe. C [h] ronus is not only the God of all times, and space. He is the God of all of existence and creation. When I created him I said to myself "I need a god who is above everything. I need a god who is the embodiment of everything. I do not wish for him to to be omnipotent, but one who is above all abstract concepts without a physical or spiritual form. I even wanted a god who transcends all of the above concepts of concepts. C [h] ronus started all of existence. He made a "big bang." Even though, it was a very special big bang. It was the first big bang that would become the first creation of the first existence. Thus, the first series of a large multitude of parallel universes were made. If I were to describe C [h] ronus. C [h] ronus would be a being who has been close to omnipotence without being omnipotent. I needed such a character who would go above and beyond. "A being who goes beyond all of existence." C [h] ronus being so special that it can create several other series to separate, and infinite expansion of other parallel universes. He is very powerful. Still, I just want to interfere with my plans for the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipotent Zeus. C [h] ronus would be a being who has been close to omnipotence without being omnipotent. I needed such a character who would go above and beyond. "A being who goes beyond all of existence." C [h] ronus being so special that it can create several other series to separate, and infinite expansion of other parallel universes. He is very powerful. Still, I just want to interfere with my plans for the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipotent Zeus. C [h] ronus would be a being who has been close to omnipotence without being omnipotent. I needed such a character who would go above and beyond. "A being who goes beyond all of existence." C [h] ronus being so special that it can create several other series to separate, and infinite expansion of other parallel universes. He is very powerful. Still, I just want to interfere with my plans for the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipotent Zeus."

[13]

Though i prefer not to use secondary, and teritary canon as fact.

• "But doesn't have any theory, i presented the proof that he did not create the realm, just took to him. And how is unrealiable?"

and i provided proof that he did create them which comes from primary canon, and the official website would be secondary canon.

• "You're only saying that because is contradicting a point that supports you. In the hypermyth itself, Kurumada gives a note that he is the absolute guide, so is canonical."

This feels like an attack on me. i forgot what the word was, was it starwman? all i been doing is defending my points from mostly the primary canon.

• "July 27, 1988"

The time gap between 1988 to next dimension, Zero, and Destiny is huge MASSIVE actually. This just gives us more reason to ignore the Hypermyth as it not only contradicts the primary canon, but also many new works have been pushed out since therefore retcons appear.

• "It both Taizen and Hypermyth, there is the same claim that Hades did not create the underworld, he only WON the world of the dead to rule, equal poseidon won the seas."

This is again secondary canon that contradicts the primary canon.

• "However keep in mind that hypermyth matches the history of chronos ND, but Taizen says that Athena's father (Chronos ND) has the same plot as the episode G Cronos, of being sealed in Tartarus."

Techinically Abzu of Omega should predate Chronos the primordial god. Who also is a God that "Created The world"

• "And don't forget, regardless of the version you use, we have an absolute truth; Hades did not created the underworld, he won."

Seems more like a stretch, and speculation from secondary, and teritary canons.


@EmperorRorepme

• "As for "Shakka holding Big Bangs" and Hades' soul being the universe. I disagree. Shakka is just flaring his cosmo. The Hades' soul being the universe was stated by an ignorant Ikki who thought it was the universe based on visuals."

there is still supporting evidence besides just that.

• "I see. That does seem like a contradiction. If it's the only place where souls go and it was destroyed. Where else would they go?"

the wiki has strict standards on secondary, and teritary canons which the Tiazen, and Hypermyth are classified as just that.

 

[Archaron]

I see. That does seem like a contradiction. If it's the only place where souls go and it was destroyed. Where else would they go?

In the assassin saga, the underworld is nothing more than a realm for the dead, and even with hades being dead, the souls are still there, the difference is that they were in disarray and the underworld now is nothing more than pure wreckage, as already it has been said, it is own extradimensional realm, it does not need hades to support itself, souls gather there naturally even without their own underworld.

I am in favor of the separation of saint seiya, but I am only quoting this, because the supervisor of the assassin saga is nothing more than kurumada himself, so the same logic can support the classic and the Next Dimension at best.

 

[KoolRay]

What's stated in the manga>>>>>>>>>>old Databooks and side material, it's just kinda that simple.


As for where the soul goes it seems it goes to a underworld of the past or other universe as you can see Seiya in ND.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

What's stated in the manga>>>>>>>>>>old Databooks and side material, it's just kinda that simple.


As for where the soul goes it seems it goes to a underworld of the past or other universe as you can see Seiya in ND.

The underworld is outside of time, and space. All souls go there including the past, present, and future.

 

[KoolRay]

What's stated in the manga>>>>>>>>>>old Databooks and side material, it's just kinda that simple.

As for where the soul goes it seems it goes to a underworld of the past or other universe as you can see Seiya in ND.

The underworld is outside of time, and space. All souls go there including the past, present, and future.

Where is this stated?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The underworld on the official website (secondary canon) stated that the 6th prison is outside of space-time.

in next dimension Shun who was sent to the past was able to see Seiya who was from the future/present. Tenma was with Shun at the time.

In Omega, it was stated that the Underworld was "Packed full of souls not only belowing to the world of the dead, or the living world"

in Episode G, pontos has to walk "out of time itself' to enter tartarus


but this is considered derailing imo.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

@Archaro

• "In fact both contradict each other, one implies destructive level X, while the other is Y, they have no correlation outside the technique itself, so you point out that, being weaker does not imply that it is not equal to the stronger it is a fallacy."

An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces.

We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.

Also, kindly remember that Attack Potency is the measure of Destructive Capacity of an attack, and as such, is measured via its energy damage equivalent. Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack. [1]

• "Tier 3 at most"

That seems fine, i agree

• "His full power would only come with the success of the titans in his plan with the help of pontus, even though he can buff himself, it is still not enough to put him on a level with him in the age of the gods."

Their full power is restricted to only Tartarus [https://s41.mkklcdnv41.com/************/r1/read_saint_seiya_episodeg/chapter_48_the_one_who_carries_the_universe/16.jpg]

A titan has their true power after they absorb their planets only [2]

• "Tenbu Horin mixes both attack and defense, and even saga, shura and camus were unable to face this technique, it does imply in AP, not because it is destructive, but because it is superior both in attack and in defense to various techniques, this includes the Galaxian Explosion"

Tenbu horin's offense and defense comes through hax. The offense and defense hax are BFR, Law Manipulation, Perception Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Pocket Reality Creation, and naturally the other stuff cosmo brings. Its Offensive through the use of Hax, and Defensive through the use of hax.

• "Miracle from G /=/ Miracles from another series"

Unforunately for that statement, miracles are equally represented throughout the entire franchise. Their concept has remained the same, and the way it is represented has remained the same.

• "Should I mention that ikki hit one of the 3 judges from hell without using his seventh sense? "
  

What evidence is there that he didn't use the 7th sense? Also, his is the saint of the phoenix, he grows stronger with every reincarnation, and grows stronger as the battle continues. How is this an anti-feat?

• "Should I mention that canon said that without the barrier, Radamanthys would not have beaten even one of the Three?"

And Rhadamanthys while using Libra Dohko in the same sentence he called Canon "Unfathomablely Powerful" [3], and Canon only says they wouldn't have been beaten so easily. he doesn't say anything about Radamanthys not being able to defeat them [4]

• "you forgot that in Episode G, it is only your will that the saints perform miracles, especially the golds."

What exactly is your point here??

• "This you have to prove, since even deathmask with your technique can access this place"
  

They were at the Entrance to the Underworld [5]


The Entrance of the Underworld is Yomotsu Hirsaka, and its still considered a part of "The Realm of the Dead" and part of "The Underworld"

Deathmask aslo says that this place IS Yomotsu Hirsaka, and the power of Hades is running out of control [6]

• "Izo trained shura, at that time saga was still a good saint, before he was corrupted, shura was a child, this comes even before Episode G, he was not revived, he was already alive, this implies that my claim to be different timelines and universes with similar yet different events is true."

The Shura that appears in Assassins is is a "World Jumper." He came from another Universe/Timeline, and came to the "Main Timeline" So naturally that shura's past will be different from the one in the classic series.


@Alonik

• "What a more contradictory comment. First you claim that Kurumada uses the word at one point, and then you say that the word doesn't even exist in japanase, and it's there in your own chapter 1 raw scan. Make up your mind, you're very confused.
  

About Kurumada's statement, you don't have to question how he used it in X local or not for me, you need to ask to him. I just brought the interview that he tell the reader of Saint Seiya to read "Cosmo" as "microunierse/microcosm"


The Word "Microuniverse/Micro-Universe' that you used doens't exist but "Microcosmo" does exist. The Japanese symbols for microcosmo are "Õ░ÅÕ«çÕ«Ö" I provided links to help understand this. I also said that Kuru used Õ░ÅÕ«çÕ«Ö. why would Kuru use a word that doesn't exist? This feels like a trap to bait me into saying a mistake.


Unforunately Interview statements are considered Word of God (WoG) which is considered Teritary canon, and it doesn't affect the primary canon.

• "No, the scan doesn't contradict what i say, if you paid more attention to what i say, and not to those kanji you're wanting to impose by other people's mouths... The mainly question here, is that you think just the word "ÒâôÒââÒé░ÒâÉÒâ│" will change something, this as not proven exactly anything, because the word "Big Bang" exists in all translations whether official or even fan. And the context only gave us one thing, Seiya made a "Big Bang" with his cosmos, after punching at the speed of light with Pegasus Ryu Sei Ken. So Aldebaran said "N-No" his blows have created a big bang! With his senses weakened, his cosmo has grown stronger! When he lost the feeling in his body... His Cosmo--His Sevenseth Sense-- Became more powerful!"

I don't see what our implying here. it sounds like your agreeing with me. that Seiya achieved a tier 3/2 attack, a big bang. Which also has other supporting feats in the classic series, and outside of it.

• "Plus, at absolutely no time does he compare to the power that created the universe (Big Bang), he just sees the pegasus ryu sei ken in front of him staying in the shape of a big bang, so much so that he says "He created a big bang" and not something like you said "His power is like the power that created the universe, the big bang""

This makes absoultely no sense. this seems like a contradiction of your own words again. "He created a Big Bang" is the same kind of statement that you mentioned later. It is a comparison of power.

• "And about you staying forcing the kanji of a single balloon, i ask you to look closely at scan, because here where i'll gently mark in red, where have the kanji that i had spoken and you just ignored and throw the only kanjis that you can transcribeÕ«çÕ«Ö

It wasn't ignored. your cherrypicking the scan. You seemd to have missed the highlighted part for the kanji of the big bang. Again, this is a comparison of power, that has other supporting scaling feats

• "that's not hypermyth, it's the encyclopedia of the anime, that's all"

you sent me that link..... [7] which link number 2 going from bottom to up has the scans you used... [8] [9]

• "It has nothing to do with being a fosuced in a single point, on the scan that said about the power, Shiryu explain that is a micro size in power compared to the big bang."

An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces.

We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.

Also, kindly remember that Attack Potency is the measure of Destructive Capacity of an attack, and as such, is measured via its energy damage equivalent. Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack. [10]


The attack is focused, and controlled. You can make a comparison to something like "Ki Control"
"focused on a single point" Your own scans also say the same thing. [11]

• "First, there is no for energy variations, this is only with higher dimensions. No one spoke of range, but of energy variation."

There is higher dimensions involved here. The big bang gave birth to time alonside the universe, and yes range is an issue here. otherwise you would have a universe created inside another already existing universe. So it didn't just give birth to just 3D space, but 3 + 1 D = 4D space. Infact it seems chronos gave birth to time alongside the Universe here, and with the Author statement [12]

"What can you tell us about C [h] ronus during Hypermythe?

Kurumada:I need to explain a few things that were actually excluded from the Hypermythe. C [h] ronus is not only the God of all times, and space. He is the God of all of existence and creation. When I created him I said to myself "I need a god who is above everything. I need a god who is the embodiment of everything. I do not wish for him to to be omnipotent, but one who is above all abstract concepts without a physical or spiritual form. I even wanted a god who transcends all of the above concepts of concepts. C [h] ronus started all of existence. He made a "big bang." Even though, it was a very special big bang. It was the first big bang that would become the first creation of the first existence. Thus, the first series of a large multitude of parallel universes were made. If I were to describe C [h] ronus. C [h] ronus would be a being who has been close to omnipotence without being omnipotent. I needed such a character who would go above and beyond. "A being who goes beyond all of existence." C [h] ronus being so special that it can create several other series to separate, and infinite expansion of other parallel universes. He is very powerful. Still, I just want to interfere with my plans for the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipotent Zeus. C [h] ronus would be a being who has been close to omnipotence without being omnipotent. I needed such a character who would go above and beyond. "A being who goes beyond all of existence." C [h] ronus being so special that it can create several other series to separate, and infinite expansion of other parallel universes. He is very powerful. Still, I just want to interfere with my plans for the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipotent Zeus. C [h] ronus would be a being who has been close to omnipotence without being omnipotent. I needed such a character who would go above and beyond. "A being who goes beyond all of existence." C [h] ronus being so special that it can create several other series to separate, and infinite expansion of other parallel universes. He is very powerful. Still, I just want to interfere with my plans for the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipotent Zeus."

[13]

Though i prefer not to use secondary, and teritary canon as fact.

• "But doesn't have any theory, i presented the proof that he did not create the realm, just took to him. And how is unrealiable?"

and i provided proof that he did create them which comes from primary canon, and the official website would be secondary canon.

• "You're only saying that because is contradicting a point that supports you. In the hypermyth itself, Kurumada gives a note that he is the absolute guide, so is canonical."

This feels like an attack on me. i forgot what the word was, was it starwman? all i been doing is defending my points from mostly the primary canon.

• "July 27, 1988"

The time gap between 1988 to next dimension, Zero, and Destiny is huge MASSIVE actually. This just gives us more reason to ignore the Hypermyth as it not only contradicts the primary canon, but also many new works have been pushed out since therefore retcons appear.

• "It both Taizen and Hypermyth, there is the same claim that Hades did not create the underworld, he only WON the world of the dead to rule, equal poseidon won the seas."

This is again secondary canon that contradicts the primary canon.

• "However keep in mind that hypermyth matches the history of chronos ND, but Taizen says that Athena's father (Chronos ND) has the same plot as the episode G Cronos, of being sealed in Tartarus."

Techinically Abzu of Omega should predate Chronos the primordial god. Who also is a God that "Created The world"

• "And don't forget, regardless of the version you use, we have an absolute truth; Hades did not created the underworld, he won."

Seems more like a stretch, and speculation from secondary, and teritary canons.


@EmperorRorepme

• "As for "Shakka holding Big Bangs" and Hades' soul being the universe. I disagree. Shakka is just flaring his cosmo. The Hades' soul being the universe was stated by an ignorant Ikki who thought it was the universe based on visuals."

there is still supporting evidence besides just that.

• "I see. That does seem like a contradiction. If it's the only place where souls go and it was destroyed. Where else would they go?"

the wiki has strict standards on secondary, and teritary canons which the Tiazen, and Hypermyth are classified as just that.

i am reposting this

for all to see in case it gets burried.

 

[KoolRay]

The underworld on the official website (secondary canon) stated that the 6th prison is outside of space-time.
in next dimension Shun who was sent to the past was able to see Seiya who was from the future/present. Tenma was with Shun at the time.

In Omega, it was stated that the Underworld was "Packed full of souls not only belowing to the world of the dead, or the living world"

in Episode G, pontos has to walk "out of time itself' to enter tartarus


but this is considered derailing imo.

Fair enough. Could parts of tthe underworld still be active while the rest destroyed? Anyway this is another topic.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

The underworld on the official website (secondary canon) stated that the 6th prison is outside of space-time.
in next dimension Shun who was sent to the past was able to see Seiya who was from the future/present. Tenma was with Shun at the time.

In Omega, it was stated that the Underworld was "Packed full of souls not only belowing to the world of the dead, or the living world"

in Episode G, pontos has to walk "out of time itself' to enter tartarus


but this is considered derailing imo.

• yawn*

It's turning into Canonicity Debate.

Next thing I can see is "Hey. That's from Spin-offs. We don't do Cross-Verse scaling here. So those are irrelevant"

Gonna go to sleep now...

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

we do know a few of these series are canon to the main timeline, but i will say this. (Not saying im agreeing to it though)

if somehow the Saint Seiya verse gets split up into separate profiles. Then why stop at saint seiya verse?

Nasuverse should be treated the same way

Digimo

Pokemon (although its already treated that way)

Dragonball hero profiles

whatever verse Reinhard belong in. he got 3-A from cross verse scaling iirc

one punch man and Mob who have 1 WoG statement to scale 2 characters iirc.

those are just a few example off the top of my head.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

In the assassin saga, the underworld is nothing more than a realm for the dead, and even with hades being dead, the souls are still there, the difference is that they were in disarray and the underworld now is nothing more than pure wreckage, as already it has been said, it is own extradimensional realm, it does not need hades to support itself, souls gather there naturally even without their own underworld.

I am in favor of the separation of saint seiya, but I am only quoting this, because the supervisor of the assassin saga is nothing more than kurumada himself, so the same logic can support the classic and the Next Dimension at best.

I see. That makes more sense. So the actual realms isn't destroyed. It's just the structure. So when Hades dies the order and structure are broken but not the realm itself.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

In the assassin saga, the underworld is nothing more than a realm for the dead, and even with hades being dead, the souls are still there, the difference is that they were in disarray and the underworld now is nothing more than pure wreckage, as already it has been said, it is own extradimensional realm, it does not need hades to support itself, souls gather there naturally even without their own underworld.
I am in favor of the separation of saint seiya, but I am only quoting this, because the supervisor of the assassin saga is nothing more than kurumada himself, so the same logic can support the classic and the Next Dimension at best.

I see. That makes more sense. So the actual realms isn't destroyed. It's just the structure. So when Hades dies the order and structure are broken but not the realm itself.

I posted the scans in my wall of text above. In assassin's. Yomotsu hirsaka was in the verge of collapse.

The Entrance of the Underworld is Yomotsu Hirsaka, and its still considered a part of "The Realm of the Dead" and part of "The Underworld"

Deathmask aslo says that this place IS Yomotsu Hirsaka, and the power of Hades is running out of control [6]

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Ok, I'll go over all this evidence. I think to structure Saint Seiya on the wiki properly you should have a thread on canonicity rather then argue here. If all upgrade threads just devolve into canonicity thread then nothing will ever get through.

I was under the impression that it went from Episode G - Classic - Next Dimension - Assassin G.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

@TheUpgrade Also try use the source editor to structure your arguments.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

zero, and destiny, Classic series, ND, Assassins, reqiuem take place in the same timeline.

Naturally due to the length of time between classic series and all other series inconsistencies will happen due to retcons.

we can turn this thread into a canoncity debate lol. This whole thing seems to revolve around "Inconsistent power levels" which i disagree wtih

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I'll go over the classic manga.

Point 1 - I disagree for these reasons: "As for "Shakka holding Big Bangs" and Hades' soul being the universe. I disagree. Shakka is just flaring his cosmo. The Hades' soul being the universe was stated by an ignorant Ikki who thought it was the universe based on visuals."

Point 2 - This seems feasible but there are multiple arguments against this. For instance every single being has a "miniature universe" within them. A "big bang" could just be a huge flair of this "miniature universe".

Point 3 - This is fine. Though of course there have been multiple arguments against the potency of the Athena Exclamation but if we're only taking manga canon into account then this is fine.

Point 4 - Same as above

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

@TheUpgrade Also try use the source editor to structure your arguments.

i don't quite understand how to use it yet... my ability with code is still below novice, rookie level... im sorry...

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Ok that's fine.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Also I see Saga is a big issue here because from what I know he should definitely scale to the Golden Saints yet his most powerful attack "only destroy galaxies". I mean why can't you just attribute that to Destructive Capacity and the Attack Potency of the attack being much higher because it is a threat to Golden Saints.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Also I see Saga is a big issue here because from what I know he should definitely scale to the Golden Saints yet his most powerful attack "only destroy galaxies". I mean why can't you just attribute that to Destructive Capacity and the Attack Potency of the attack being much higher because it is a threat to Golden Saints.

the taizen can be treated as secondary canon as its an encloypedia source

from episode G to classic series the gold saints should have gotten stronger

 

[Archaron]

I posted the scans in my wall of text above. In assassin's. Yomotsu hirsaka was in the verge of collapse.

The Entrance of the Underworld is Yomotsu Hirsaka, and its still considered a part of "The Realm of the Dead" and part of "The Underworld"

Deathmask aslo says that this place IS Yomotsu Hirsaka, and the power of Hades is running out of control [6]

"The Boundary between this world and the afterlife"

He does not use the term hades realm because he no longer maintains the same order as before, now it is just a post-life and even the underworld where he had found himself, souls like deathtoll, can move around freely, because they no longer there is a ruler over that realm, he just maintains his functions.

And even seiya, uses the term "falling into the Realm of the deads", specifying that because there is no more balance there, there is only the place where souls go after death.

 

[Archaron]

zero, and destiny, Classic series, ND, Assassins, reqiuem take place in the same timeline.

Naturally due to the length of time between classic series and all other series inconsistencies will happen due to retcons.

we can turn this thread into a canoncity debate lol. This whole thing seems to revolve around "Inconsistent power levels" which i disagree wtih

Episode G assassin and requiem does not take place in the same timeline as the classic and ND, it only has similar events, the fact that izo is alive and trains shura at a very old age is a good example of this, and the saga itself is still alive and able of crossing time like aiolos.

That and kanon being the great master of the sanctuary implies that this is a fact, they are just similar events, but they are not the same timeline/dimensional universe.

 

[Alonik]

@TheUpgradeManHaHaxD

Unforunately Interview statements are considered Word of God (WoG) which is considered Teritary canon, and it doesn't affect the primary canon.

Just your opinion. Here we use a lot WoG, and the word of Kurumada will continue to be more valid you thinking it is valid or not.

I don't see what our implying here. it sounds like your agreeing with me. that Seiya achieved a tier 3/2 attack, a big bang. Which also has other supporting feats in the classic series, and outside of it. This makes absoultely no sense. this seems like a contradiction of your own words again. "He created a Big Bang" is the same kind of statement that you mentioned later. It is a comparison of power.

It's just visual, i'm going to need to mark in red that the Ryu Sei Ken started to get spiral in shape and so Aldebaran called him a big bang? Because i said it in the last argue, and it was just ignored.

you sent me that link..... [7] which link number 2 going from bottom to up has the scans you used... [8] [9]

Yes, but you just need attemption just that there are several guides together.

An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well. Also, kindly remember that Attack Potency is the measure of Destructive Capacity of an attack, and as such, is measured via its energy damage equivalent. Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack. [10]

I know all this, and you still don't understand. In scan it is said that it has a smaller power that a smaller version of the big bang, it does not have pottency attack on a smaller range.

Separate the sentences, this has nothing to do with range or conservation energy, but rather about what description shows that it is an energy equal than a smaller energy than 3-A (big bang)

Attack Focused stuff:

I've already aswered that in the last comment. And you keep putting the sentences together, that's a serious grammatical mistake.

4D/Higher Dimension Stuff:

That's the time in saint seiya omega. And you would have to it is uncountably infinite higher. In Omega Abzu is the creator of the Multiverse, and in classic is Chronos.

Chronos Stuff: This here only serve to say that Chronos needs an upgrade. And i had already reported this in my hypermyth comment, but it's not in that scale.

and i provided proof that he did create them which comes from primary canon, and the official website would be secondary canon.

Like i said, you just use what fits best to upgrade the character.

However, does not work that way, i have already shown why they are canonical, and even if you look at the main page of the verse here, we already use this in our profile standards.

This feels like an attack on me. i forgot what the word was, was it starwman? all i been doing is defending my points from mostly the primary canon. No, that was a comment against your "Argument from belief" And now you've made one appeal to emotio

The time gap between 1988 to next dimension, Zero, and Destiny is huge MASSIVE actually. This just gives us more reason to ignore the Hypermyth as it not only contradicts the primary canon, but also many new works have been pushed out since therefore retcons appear.

No matter the date, unless the information has been retconed, it will continue to be valid.

This is again secondary canon that contradicts the primary canon. Seems more like a stretch, and speculation from secondary, and teritary canons.

And is this different from you using the site? Also, WoG and Encyclopedia is widely used here on this wiki, so it remains realiable.

Techinically Abzu of Omega should predate Chronos the primordial god. Who also is a God that "Created The world"

Yeah.

 

[Alonik]

Also I see Saga is a big issue here because from what I know he should definitely scale to the Golden Saints yet his most powerful attack "only destroy galaxies". I mean why can't you just attribute that to Destructive Capacity and the Attack Potency of the attack being much higher because it is a threat to Golden Saints.

And the only place where there is a quote from likely being galaxy is in taizen, which is trying to be discaded now.

 

[Alonik]

we do know a few of these series are canon to the main timeline, but i will say this. (Not saying im agreeing to it though)
if somehow the Saint Seiya verse gets split up into separate profiles. Then why stop at saint seiya verse?

snip

If it fits into the examples, yes. We already have franchises with the same issues as Saint Seiya as:

• JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
• Dragon Ball

There must be others who are already being done this.

 

[Archaron]

• Again I will re-affirm, the fact that a Galaxian Explosion is stronger, naturally, because it has factors like the "supernova" and the pattern of attacks in Episode G being immensely stronger than the classic, does not make the Galactic Explosion of the classic have the same capacity, neither in energy, as in reach, just because you say that a weaker being does not disqualify her from being as strong as the strongest, the point is natural here, the reach and energy are naturally greater in G, and the classic only extends to the limit inside a galaxy, like its stars and only them, while that of Episode G extends to galaxies beyond and all the empty space between them. If you can't prove that they have the same energy and characteristics, then it's just your guess.

1. Their full power is restricted to only Tartarus
2. A titan has their true power after they absorb their planets only

This is not the true power of the titans, just the true maximum to which they can buffer themselves, all the power that iapeto showed against shaka and aiolia, does not even come close to him in the age of the gods, a proof of that is that in the assassin saga, when a human reaches a level of being able to truly confront a god, without the proper protectio (the divine armor) and capacities of it (Probably the only one capable of this is the seiya of the assassin saga), their bodies will be destroyed by the forbidden power.

Translation​

Original: ├ë imposs├¡vel que ele tenha elevado seu cosmo a tal ponto para enfrentar um deus. Translation: It is impossible that he raised his cosmos to such an extent that he faced a god. Original: Um humano que supera os humanos, isso n├úo é lógico. Translation:A human who surpasses humans, this is not logical. Original: Se alcan├ºou esse poder que supera os limites... Translation: If you reached that power that exceeds the limits... Original: N├úo poder├í evitar o sacrif├¡cio que vir├í acompanhado desse poder. Translation: You cannot avoid the sacrifice that will come with that power. Original: Shura... Oque diabos voc├¬ ir├í sacrificar? Translation: Shura ... What the hell are you going to sacrifice?

1. Tenbu horin's offense and defense comes through hax. The offense and defense hax are BFR, Law Manipulation, Perception Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Pocket Reality Creation, and naturally the other stuff cosmo brings. Its Offensive through the use of Hax, and Defensive through the use of hax.

Half of these haxs you mentioned do not exist, I could even say that it is wanker if you did not mix all the works of saint seiya, Tenbu Horin's only function is to seal the enemy's movements, make any attack ineffective and ignore any defense to his effects against the senses, that's all.

1. Unforunately for that statement, miracles are equally represented throughout the entire franchise. Their concept has remained the same, and the way it is represented has remained the same.

It is not, while in Episode G the miracle represents the ability to fight against the destiny imposed by the gods, the classic miracle is only to raise your cosmos to the limit and beyond, the assassin is naturally the ability to do the impossible itself, the same goes for omega and The Lost Canvas, some are similar, but never the same, only with the same effects, to increase the saints's cosmos, thus predicting an increase in all its attributes.

1. What evidence is there that he didn't use the 7th sense? Also, his is the saint of the phoenix, he grows stronger with every reincarnation, and grows stronger as the battle continues. How is this an anti-feat?

This is reversing the burden of proof, if you cannot prove that he used the seventh sense, then he did not. Does the fact that he gets stronger every time he returns and battle doesn't imply anything, how much stronger does he get? How strong is he during the fight against aiacos? If you cannot answer in a concrete way, then it is guesswork.

1. And Rhadamanthys while using Libra Dohko in the same sentence he called Canon "Unfathomablely Powerful", and Canon only says they wouldn't have been beaten so easily. he doesn't say anything about Radamanthys not being able to defeat them

He just says that the barrier is the only explanation for why Radamanthys defeated them so easily, the gold saints have similar levels of cosmos, the same goes for shaka (but without their eyes open) and saga, and without the barrier, they can unleash all their power, so Radamanthys could not predict the level of the 3 gold saints before because of that.

1. What exactly is your point here??

The point is to show the difference between classic and episode G, the golden saints can perform miracles at will in Episode G, even if the enemy is much stronger or they are weakened, they get stronger just because they want to, as Mu vs Iapeto, while in the classic, only seiya was able to perform a miracle against Radamanthys with the barrier, and yet, only managed to push him and break his sapuris (that's because he underestimated the attack of the pegasus).

1. The Shura that appears in Assassins is is a "World Jumper." He came from another Universe/Timeline, and came to the "Main Timeline" So naturally that shura's past will be different from the one in the classic series.

He did not come from another universe or timeline, but from the past of the assassin timeline, he returned to his original time, where he finds himself with others at wall of lamentations.