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Thunder McQueen's Incons

I think we should approach this differently. Yes, the other character may have a wincon, but does Thunder?

Most of his matches should, by all rights, be stomps against him, because he has no wincon, being able to force an inconclusive is not a wincon, Thunder just plain cannot win most of his matches.
 
Any fight that is not him fighting something much weaker than him, and somehow getting rid of his depression as a condition of the match will never have him win. By that definition EVERY SINGLE MATCH he would ever have is a stomp against him.
 
GreyFang82 said:
Any fight that is not him fighting something much weaker than him, and somehow getting rid of his depression as a condition of the match will never have him win. By that definition EVERY SINGLE MATCH he would ever have is a stomp against him.
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Exactly.
 
Paul Frank said:
Ichigo could just kill the stand in addition he can also incap by tying him up or something
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Ichigo has Reiatsu and with it, he should passively disintegrate Thunder which then should disintegrate Ichigo.

There's no win-con there.
 
GreyFang82 said:
Any fight that is not him fighting something much weaker than him, and somehow getting rid of his depression as a condition of the match will never have him win. By that definition EVERY SINGLE MATCH he would ever have is a stomp against him.
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You misunderstand. What makes it not fair is that he doesn't have a win condition. There is a difference between having a win condition and using a win condition. Against Naruto, he is a 9-C that's up against someone several tiers higher than him with his only form of durability negation being one that makes him die too. There is no win condition. Now let's say someone made a match for Thunder against a different 9-C. Now, he has a win condition which is beating that person up. Just because the character doesn't want to win does not mean that the existence of a win condition doesn't matter.

Edit: Fixed 10-B to being 9-C
 
The Divine Phoenix said:
I think we should approach this differently. Yes, the other character may have a wincon, but does Thunder?

Most of his matches should, by all rights, be stomps against him, because he has no wincon, being able to force an inconclusive is not a wincon, Thunder just plain cannot win most of his matches.
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He does have a wincon

Albeit he will never use it in character

That is to abuse hth to incap or kill the target without his own death

The condition exists however because of his character he won't take it
 
My opinion: Doesn't HtH's damage reflection only work on suicide attempts? So if he trips accidentally, it wouldn't transfer. However, suicide by combat would certainly trigger the ability. Alternatively, the "cannot be restrained" seems like an over-extrapolation, I see it more like transferring actual harm instead of sensation mimicry or something. He bound himself in wires and dipped himself in water, but Hermes didn't seem encumbered or soaking wet in the approaching suicide attempt. Only when Thunder started shocking himself did the Stand begin to manifest.
 
Paul Frank said:
Pinning him, knocking him out without killing him, tying him up etc
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All of these get reflected.
 
Execpt that is not at all how hth works it's not the encounter or accel's vector shield
 
Paul Frank said:
Execpt that is not at all how hth works it's not the encounter or accel's vector shield
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What?
 
Honestly, it doesn't even matter if that is or isn't how HtH works, all of the matches against him are still stomps against him. Though if HtH does work as described that would make them even bigger stomps.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Luffy has empathic manipulation that he spams that can knock out thousands of people all at once, and in the thread where he fought Thunder someone mentioned that Thunder can transfer that too.
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I don't remember HtH being able to transfer mind manipulation effects.

But seriously, Thunder has been wanked Highway to hell afrom time to time, especially when some people debated that he could reflect Concept-Killing Death Manipulation.
 
Thunder can abuse hth to incap or kill without incap or killing himself via doing something like cutting his wrists and then bandaging those wounds etc
 
Overlord775 said:
The battles are stomps against Thunder as he has no way to win in them
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What about the fights that his enemies have no way to win either?

I am pretty sure having stalemates the vast majority of the time with a few occasional wins for one side is still just inconclusive
 
Overlord775 said:
No, he deosn't have the equipment to do that
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Yes he does

He can tear his clothing to use as bandages

He can use his nails, teeth or even the surrounding to cut himself
 
Maybe a note should be put on his profile for what mentality he is in. Does he want both him and his enemy dead so he doesn't die alone or does he want his enemy dead specifically?
 
@Iapitus

No, that would still be a stomp because he has no way to win, but his oppoenent does even if it's ver farfetched win condictions

@Paul

and the oppoenet could use his cloths as bandages too, so not a win condiction
 
@overlord

The opponent can so that(not all of them tbf) but there is a chance they wouldn't so it is a wincon
 
@Ipapitus

matches have been called decisive instead of stomps even when one of the two characters had chances even lower than that to win, so it's enought
 
Overlord775 said:
Also every opponent he fought would outlast him even with him using bandages
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Not all of them

That was just an example of a way he could abuse hth there are plenty of ways he could abuse it to win it's just his personality and in character actions which stop this
 
@Paul

then tell me more so i can debunk them

@Iapitus

The chances of someone actually winning mean crap in matches even if they are astronomically low
 
What wincon does Thunder have exactly against Son Goku, Superma, Saitama, Thanos and the many other incons he has? Those are the kinds of matches that should be removed, because in those he just dies instantly and takes the opponent with them, meaning he has no chance to win and they should be considered stomps.
 
The Divine Phoenix said:
What wincon does Thunder have exactly against Son Goku, Superma, Saitama, Thanos and the many other incons he has? Those are the kinds of matches that should be removed, because in those he just dies instantly and takes the opponent with them, meaning he has no chance to win and they should be considered stomps.
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The point is that it is unbelievably more likely that they both die. He also does technically have the win condition of stabbing himself and stopping his own bleeding long enough that the other side dies first, but that is out of Character for him obviously.
 
He wouldn't get to stab himself before being instantly vaporized by anything any of those characters do. He cannot win. No matter if it is more likely that both die, no wincon = stomp.
 
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