This time I think it's alright

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

ARGUMENT No. 1

THE MIND

In Black clover the mind appears to be a separate dimension from the physical world and this is clear almost every time someone's mind appears as we can see in these cases here:





And this is further deepened with Dorothy/Reve's magic, the magic itself consists of a BRF from the opponents to a space isolated from the outside world and physically non-existent, this space is composed of dreams and is under the control of the user's imagination:




This space is also connected to the user's soul, so much so that Dorothy was able to appear there even while being controlled by another user's soul:

https://imgur.com/a/U4oFriu

And as we know, the mind has the soul as its source, that is, it is quite relevant that the world of glamor is basically something like Dorothy's mind, and the mind would fit our standards of type 3 concept, since it is something made purely of dreams/imagination, has no physical form, and is not connected to the biological part of a being.
I know that several verse could fit these descriptions, but BC has something that other verse don't and that is a statement in chapter 311 made by Morris, who is one of the smartest characters in the series, who calls this invincible magic composed of dreams concept

https://imgur.com/a/xopG3yA

This would affect both mind and soul, mind being a type 3 concept, its source the soul should be of the same nature but even deeper.
Since it takes a layer of CM 3 to affect the soul, and this is supported by the verse, characters with spells that can affect the mind (Dorothy, Morris, Marx) do not affect the soul, but spells that affect the soul, consequently affect the mind

ARGUMENT No. 2

MAGIC POWER (魔力 Maryoku) AND MAGIC (魔法 Mahō)

In the SBS of BC volume 4 we are revealed by Tabata that magic is simply the refinement of magical power to perform a specific function.

https://imgur.com/a/tWqMJpW

Which means that the spells cast are simply a product that uses magic power as raw material, i.e. Spells like , monument of atonement, world of glamour, rouge that are considered concepts, are also just products of magic power

https://imgur.com/a/cALDEEA
https://imgur.com/a/xopG3yA
https://imgur.com/a/RmL3Cc4

And like the mind, magical power also has its source in the soul.

https://imgur.com/a/P0SXti3


Mana (マナMana)

Mana is the fundamental energy that is in absolutely all nature of the verse, it is also known as the origin of the soul by the elves and the dryad

https://imgur.com/a/S7Q5Hfg

And this is consistent with the work since if you exchange a being's natural Mana for negative Mana of darker origin, it will make his whole being corrupt (soul, mind, body and magic power)

https://imgur.com/a/tWqMJpW
https://imgur.com/a/SAylotD

Mana is responsible for giving people magical powers, and it itself forms those magical powers/attributes.

https://imgur.com/a/NVSUTbs

Conclusion, Mana exists on a fundamental/conceptual level and exists throughout the universe and in everything even things like space and time (Julius Novachrono/Lucius , Zenon, Bezebull , Langris , Finral , etc…), which is our definition for universal concept perhaps type 1, and certainly type 2

Reference topics:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/conceptual-manipulation-clarifications-revisions.128012/https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-small-upgrade.144546/#post-5221634https://vsbattles.com/threads/tensura-upgrade-abilities-conceptual-manipulation-types-2.144592/https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-high-godly-and-concept-hax.150341/page-5

Argument No. 1:
agree =
Neutral =
disagree =

Argument No. 2:
agree =
Neutral =
disagree =

Mana:
agree =
Neutral =
disagree =

 

[Dragoonseraphim]

@chosen ,@CloverDragon03 ,@Arnoldstone18 , @Deceived3596

redid this but with better arguments

https://vsbattles.com/threads/conceptual-manipulation-and-information-type-2-black-clover.148780/

Just letting you know you can’t send notifications like this if you aren’t staff. You have to comment on their message wall.

 

[Excellence616]

What is this?

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

What is this?

argument for CM Black clover

 

[Excellence616]

argument for CM Black clover

Reference topics:
https://vsbattles.com/threads/conce...each-high-godly-and-concept-hax.150341/page-5

Try sperating them

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Try sperating them

they are not the same arguments, I just used them for reference

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Try sperating them

Everything seems to be going well with the Bleach thread, and I think I can start to argue how serious the scaling of conceptual things is in BC, which would go something like this

Spells that can affect concepts are just a refinement of magical power, which means that magical power itself exists on a conceptual level, magical power has its source in the soul, the soul governs all aspects/information of a mage (body/mind /attribute/life ) on a conceptual and fundamental level for the same, when altering the soul all aspects of a mage are affected as well as shown with negative mana and now with Lucius' magic

In other words, the soul fits as a type 2 concept since it fundamentally and conceptually governs its reality/object (mage)

Could someone tag any BC supporters and someone to evaluate this?