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The VS Battles Wiki and Undertale (spoilers)

Good point.

And while this might be useless in the long run, Frisk is able to survive in temperatures hot enough to evaporate a full cup of water...and the cup itself, too. Is the heat needed to evaporate a paper cup quantifiable?
 
I think it's well enough to note that Sans wasn't exactly "defeating" genocide Frisk by pure skill but by more or less cheating the very system of the game to extents that no foe on that path is able to do. I'm not sure what that would qualify or scale as but I thought it was worth mention
 
Yeah, Sans takes a "Death by a Thousand Tiny Cuts" approach, but a major thing about that strategy is that you can't use it on something you can't cut. Ergo, Sans should still scale to Frisk to an extent. Sans is also very likely the fastest character in the game.

Undylan, if we have reason to believe we have a good idea for what an Undertale character's stats are, then yeah, I'd say we should make pages ASAP. This thread is basically for discussing such stats. The reason why this thread exists is that it's such a tricky topic.

Oh, and according to a phone call you can make with Undyne, her armor weighs 100 pounds. Despite this, she is able to perform some pretty impressive feats of agility and such in it, but doing well in Hotland is not one of those things. She can survive there just fine in casual wear, though.

She also lifts an entire couch and swings it at Papyrus like she was using a pillow, apparently. I wish we could actually see this happening.

I've seen the Undertale wiki use the Comic Sans and Papyrus fonts. Do Wikis have to specifically allow for this, or can this wiki do it as well?
 
I'll probably make some pages, soon.

If Sans is made, he'll likely be at "unknown", as most of his skills are based on pure hax. Regardless, he does take on endgame genocide Frisk, who shortly after (along with Chara) destroys the universe.
 
I don't like this idea how characters shouldn't scale to others DC wise because they take their health one by one

As long as you can damage them you should scale, no matter how miniscule the damage, because if you weren't anywhere near on their level, it wouldn't hurt them at all.

That being said, I believe Frisk scales to Omega Flowey and Sans scales to Frisk because they can still dodge their attacks and cause damage to them.

Moments where Frisk can't hurt them like with Asriel definitely don't scale though.
 
I think the point with Sans is that his main strength lies in essentially breaking the laws of the universe. It doesn't matter how strong you are or how weak he is, because he can easily kill you by exploiting the fabric of the universe just to make sure you don't proceed.
 
...Isn't that alone kinda universal? I'm not too sciency but I know that the Eds are considered universal for breaking the laws of reality, so shouldn't Sans be the same?

Again I hardly know any stuff about that, but I just wanted to know.
 
I don't know if the Eds should be there, actually. Sans definitely has the ability to (rather easily, in fact) take down universal+ enemies, but that speaks more for the potency of his hax than anything else. I'm also not sure if this was removed in an update, but a counter in his boss fight used to imply the "poison" damage he was doing to you was quite literally murdering you with karma from all the pain you caused.

However, Sans still only has 1 hp and 1 atk, as he exploited the system by dumping everything into speed just so you could never hit him. I'm not sure exactly how fast that makes him, but...the answer is somewhere between really really fast and really f&$#ing fast.
 
Also, this is mostly a theory on my part, but I think Omega Flowey is universal via deleting timelines and such and that when he did mention the true power of 7 human souls, he may have meant a higher scale, but that's just me.
 
Oh Omega Flowey is easily casually universal (likely multi-universal due to the number of timelines he creates, loads, and destroys while you're fighting him). His true form is just much stronger.

Also, if nobody objects, I'm going to make a Flowey profile, really soon.
 
What do you mean recently? Mother 3 was released in 2006, what could have come out recently to change him to multiversal?
 
It's been a while since I've played Earthbound and Mother 3, but Giygas' essence got obliterated at the end of Earthbound, so I don't know if anything could have happened in subsequent games to upgrade him.
 
Yeah, Giygas isn't in Mother 3 as far as I know. I don't know what could have upgraded him.

Isn't it Chara who destroys the universe at the end of the Genocide run, not Frisk? Heck, you're given the option to sell your soul to them just so they won't do it.
 
Chara is the one who destroys the universe (unless you do it together with him), but by the time Sans fights Frisk, Chara is fully in control.
 
I think it'd be fair enough to scale Sans with Chara as like you stated Chara was in full control for sure then even reflecting the things he said being from the mouth of Chara and not Frisk. What I do not know is if Frisk/Chara had the power to do that universal feat before or after he was finally awakaned. Even still Sans is likely only below Chara and POSSIBLY Asriel's ultimate weakness is his childish nature for sure. So I think it would go Genocide Frisk (Assuming he is weaker then awkaned Chara)>Sans and possibly Omega Flowery>Chara and Asriel that's just how I see it though and I'm not sure how the other characters will scale
 
I would assume Chara was fully awakened when fighting with Sans, as that's the point of no return in which you cannot back out of a genocide route (barring resetting before initiating the ending, of course). Chara even begins speaking/thinking for Frisk by the time you reach New Home.

The thing I'm having problems with right now is trying to find out how to properly tier Toriel, Asgore, Papyrus, Undyne, and Mettaton.
 
Mm-hmm. I can name impressive-by-IRL-standards feats for Undyne until I'm as blue in the face as she, but actually quantifying these guys would be very difficult. Though fun fact: "Check"ing Toriel will tell you that her Attack and Defense are both 80, which confirms that she's holding back against Frisk since gameplay does not reflect this in the slightest. It also confirms that she is exactly as strong as Asgore, who has these very same stats.
 
Indeed, so we at least know Toriel and Asgore can have similar stats.

For Undyne, her most impressive feat (which is genocide only) is becoming Undyne the Undying, in which she becomes not only the first opponent in the run who can take (waaaay more) than one hit from Chara/Frisk, but also the first character who can easily kill them if the player isn't careful. I have no idea exactly how to quantify this, but taking hits from genocide Frisk is no small feat, and if the soul of every monster is supposed to be equal to one incredibly determined human soul, that should make her very powerful.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
I would assume Chara was fully awakened when fighting with Sans, as that's the point of no return in which you cannot back out of a genocide route (barring resetting before initiating the ending, of course). Chara even begins speaking/thinking for Frisk by the time you reach New Home.
The thing I'm having problems with right now is trying to find out how to properly tier Toriel, Asgore, Papyrus, Undyne, and Mettaton.
Click to expand...

You Are likely right about that so I'm guessing Sans will scale with Chara. Like you said though the hard part is characters like Undyne
 
What about speed? Should we use gameplay feats to determine Frisk's speed (such as dodging lightning attacks and near-missing Tsunderplane) and scale the likes of Sans and Undyne to that?
 
I would assume so. After all, while the damage is being done to Frisk's soul, the attacks are actually happening. I'm trying to think of the most impressive of said dodging feats.
 
It actually is if you involve the infinitely expanding universe. Frisk would have had to literally run toward the end of the universe before it got absorbed in the amount of time that it did. My friend made a calc on this but I'd have to ask him to show me.

Napstablook's powers are rather suspicious to say the least, so it wouldn't surprise me if he pulled some weird strings.
 
Radius of the universe is 46,600,000,000 light years or 46.6 gigaLY

So 46600000000*365*24*60*60/6

=2.449296e17c

AKA around 250 quadrillion times FTL

Credit to this calc goes out to my bro Proto ; )
 
And this is taking the fight with God Asriel into account, correct? As in, right before Flowey becomes Asriel and absorbs the timeline? If so, should we use this as Frisk's regular speed, his reaction speed, or specify that it's for endgame Frisk?
 
Frisk most likely had to outrun it otherwise he/she(?) would have been absorbed as well.

As for whether or not this should be beginning Frisk or Endgame Frisk, I'm going to have to side with the latter.
 
Most likely, yeah. In that case, beginning/midgame Frisk will likely get speed scaled from things such as dodging rays of sunlight and lightning.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Most likely, yeah. In that case, beginning/midgame Frisk will likely get speed scaled from things such as dodging rays of sunlight and lightning.
Click to expand...
Wow...Even in the beginning he's still FTL. This is some kid. I wish determination did this for me...
 
Determination OP. So OP in fact, that it apparently only takes one cruel human soul to become a timeline devouring abomination, six determined human souls to become a save-state abusing god, and seven determined human souls to become all powerful.
 
Determination is also the only super power which can be enhanced by thinking about how a mouse might one day learn to hack into an electronic safe and steal cheese.
 
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