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Exept when mario has the thing that gives him the limitless items, so in character mario uses them the way he has shown to use when using the thing that gives limitless items, basic logic
Not accepted so not relevant
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The star of the ring! Mario vs Sonic in their base (Concluded)
- Thread starter Brogeefrong
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Tbf, regarding the Magic Hands, rather than rendering the opponent unconcious, couldn't it also just be interpreted as paralysis inducement + sealing? It clearly has some second effect given it freezes the target. But I don't think we get confirmation on what.
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And I’m saying there’s nothing that points to passive 1-ups not being infinite if Mario used Bottomless gloves in a game with passive 1-ups.
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The fact that the only time he uses rhe thing that makes it infinite making the mushrooms not passive?
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As for the retry clock thing, I personally don't think it makes sense to assume going back in time undoes BFR. Because you would need to assume it has two powers, not just one. That being time travel and Dimensional Travel. If you use Time Travel in a separate space-time, you can only travel throughout that continuum. Not EVERY continuum. However, if it has been shown to let him jump to other universes, then it'd be fine.
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But in that case it would also depend on the range of it
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Mmmm, yeah, kinda.
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Based on everything said, i will vote for sonic for shake's list reasons
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how high can hedge jump? cuz some of Mario's greater jump feats have him clearing several stories in a single bound
the rest is understandable, but considering Mario is very well-versed in acrobatics, it isn't as one-sided as you think
true, some of them counter his standard arsenal, but Mario's also got Optional Equipment here
I really don't recall hog using speed amps right off the rip as much as you claim he does
I'm very aware it's pretty in character for him to, considering his reputation and all, but he seems to mainly rely on his natural speed at first
could always be wrong tho
scan for that speed and perception amp?
also seems pretty inferior to Mario's own array of revives
I mean, as of right now, Mario's fought two master martial artists, both of whom become increasingly difficult after each bout against Mario (which is up to 3 times)
Mario's also fought and won against Shadoo, someone who went through the trouble of having Mario battle against 200 enemies (as he had him do the Pit of 100 Trials in Flopside twice), just to get a thorough scan and read on his capabilities and proceed to become Mario to fight him
and lastly, he's fought against Bowser Memory M and Bowser Memory L, both of whom are copies of Mario and Luigi based off of how Bowser remembers the duo, and they're capable of using both of the Bros. own moves against them
so I'd say Mario can relatively hold his own, despite being at a disadvantage
true, I don't think any of Mario's rewind options can really save him there, but badges like Pretty Lucky, Lucky Day, and Close Call reduce the chances of that working by quite a bit
touché
I mean, Mario can react pretty easily to both Bowser Memory's utilizing the Super Star, which is pretty consistently depicted to increase speed and more
I'm sure there's other examples, but that's what came off the top of my head
of course though, it still falls short to Sonic's reaction speed
Those probability badges could aid in buying Mario some time to use some of his other moves, since I don't believe Sonic is dumb enough to try an option that won't work more than once
ye
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He can jump above the clouds at least, and into space at his best showings. But generally, several to tens of kilometers into the air.
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holy shit, I gotta have a link to that, if you don't mind
GlaceonGamez471
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oh damn, then nevermind
jumpman gets outperformed in that regard toofor now
jumpman gets outperformed in that regard too
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Glaceon beat me to it
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As for the jumping to space thing. I honestly wouldn't be able to find you a specific clip. It's in Sonic Jump tho. There's some jumps that can send you far into space if you have enough upgrades or smth iirc.
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I did just find out that Mario can also clear cloud height, so he can still compete
but if ya stumble across that space jump vid, then I'm beat
but if ya stumble across that space jump vid, then I'm beat
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What's the timestamp? I just got a vid of Mario in the desert.
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Aight, that one works. Yeah, they seem about relative in the jumping department (I'll assume the feat is a jump rather than smth else due to limitations back then). Tho I do think Sonic is generally far more acrobatic with how nimble and small he is. I think the flexibility and stunts Sonic does is generally far more impressive from a acrobatics pov. I'll see the best jumping feats I can find tho. The absolute best feat might be in shuffle, since I know most of the character's can make ridiculous jumps past stars and constellations, but Shuffle is kinda a weird game.
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I'll look a bit more, but here's some of Sonic jumping through the cosmo's (With Boost, which for what it's worth has shown to significantly increase Sonic's air time in other games). I'll look for the Shuffle stuff. Might take a while tho
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understandable, since Nic's acrobatics also falls in line with his general superior speed over his opponents, such as in Unleashed
again, Mario doesn't fall too short in that department,
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I only think speed is a small aspect of acrobatics. It's just generally how he bends his body and navigates maps by jumps, loop-de-loops, wall running/jumping, running across an enemies entire surface which looks more clean/nimble than what I generally see from Mario (Not gonna say he's bad. I don't think he's infinitely worse. But I do think what Sonic does look substantially more impressive from a neutral PoV).
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Yeah. Not a super big Mario fan (I play his game, they are fun. I don't mean in the he's lame sense, just the I'm not a super big fan of him like I am Sonic), but I am aware of that much. It's just when Sonic does it, it looks more agile/quick and clean.
As an example, look at how Mario jumps off of enemies versus how Sonic leaps on enemies, and circumnavigates their entire surface before leaping forward. It just looks a LOT more impressive. I guess it seems this way since Sonic was essentially made as a speedster version of Mario, so the acrobatics looking more impressive to the general eye is to be expected. I don't think Mario is incapable of acrobatics tho. Just think Sonic's in like a league of his own (He unironically does some of the most impressive acrobatics/parkour of almost any fictional character I know. Tho I admittedly don't look into a bunch of parkour/acrobatic series).
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yeah, understandable
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It is a shame. I'm not even a super big Mario fan and I feel bad for its current state. I've considered helping with little stuff before, tho don't think I'd be of much use.
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honestly, any help would do, but we should probably get back on topic
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Yeah, we did get a bit off track. I think I'll still wait before voting. Wanna hear what others think. If even the Mario fans agree he loses, then it's an easy vote. If not, then I'll hear them out.
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- Thread starter
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Voting Sonic for Shake's reasons, too. Sonic's arguments are more in character versus Mario's logic of mixing multiple games together.
ShakeResounding
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Nah I worded it weirdly, I'm mainly talking about them being moves that Sonic either uses frequently (Spin Dash) or compliments his natural speed (Boost era). You're correct on his natural speed coming first.
Gotchu, man. Here it is. Edit: you meant for Shahra's Ring, I'll get a clip when I wake up again
Yeh it is, I'm only arguing it'd be more of a last-resort necessity should Sonic actually be at-risk of dying. Where Mario's resurrection has the numerical advantage (limitless revives), Sonic's matches it in efficiency (energy to revive so long as he runs to refill it)
100%, I probably made it sound like I was underselling Mario a tad due to my lack of general knowledge.
Fair, that bolsters Mario's capability of evasion and allows him to compete better with Sonic's high-pace style.
Also fair, though I'm uncertain if that'd meaningfully equate to being able to react to Sonic's level of speed amps. He could from afar when they're initially approaching one another, it's if Sonic uses them in close range where it gets far more dangerous.
ShakeResounding
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I don't think Hoghedge would be able to deal any lasting damage, even with his amps, due to badges like Mayo's probability ones reducing the chances of Cinos getting off any particular moves on him, badges like Last Stand and Return Postage being able to halve the damage Jumpman would take should he be in critical condition and also returning half of the damage dealt back to Blue Man respectively. Hell, with items like the Boost Star or the Ruby Star, Malleo wouldn't even need to be near Sunky to damage him
there's also equipment like the Guard Shell series that can completely nullify any physical harm Maurice may land on Red Stache, and numerous healing items (some even passive) that'll constantly heal Mario in the process, making that task hella difficult
so once Mario's primary methods of offense do him barely any good, there shouldn't be any reason to doubt he'd resort to his extensive arsenal
I could honestly see this ending as an incon, since both would constantly be able to revive and have enough time to use either of their more effective options on the other (Sonic potentially BFR with the Chaos Nachos and Mario drawing his deck of Catch Cards or his Sleep Manip options)
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I would agree with incon if Mario didn’t have multiple ways to get rid of Shahra’s ring, either with Plunder Chest or just destroying it as a byproduct of one of his big AOE attacks.
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The ring is durable enough to survive being in a fight with sonic, plus what exactly is stoping sonic from just taking up immeditly afterwards with his blitz instant speed amps? Also even if mario does that, how exactly would he finish sonic? Keep in mind that even without the ring sonic can still revive
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true, since he also had it during his fight with Alf Layla, iirc
but nothing really stops Mario from simply disarming him again
that there is among the reasons why incon makes the most sense to me
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Shahra was dead during the Alf Layla fight.
Also no Sonic can’t revive on his own without the ring, Chaos Emeralds require a wish to revive people from death
Also no Sonic can’t revive on his own without the ring, Chaos Emeralds require a wish to revive people from death
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