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The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

Eseseso said:
And the work shall very much continue.

Thank you, broskie.

I mean if Ant's ok with it, especially since the 2-A range is probably an outdated thing from before Ultima's revisions.
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Antvasima said:
I am not so good at evaluating content revisions. My apologies. 🙏
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No worries, I'll just slap that onto my upcoming CRT.

Yeah expect a few minor threads with varying connections to Marvel Magic.

First CRT is covering some extra magic stuff (plus bonus justifications for magic stuff that is already accepted because why not).

Second CRT is a physiology page for Gods.

May or may not release a 3rd CRT upgrading the smurf potency of magic even further beyond, just not sure whether or not to wait for part 3 of Ultima's revisions.
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
I finally finished 10 profiles entirely! I have dozens to go, but it's definitely a start!


Click to expand...
We have two Limbo here. One where its was the Qlippoth of Malkuth, which is High 1-A and other one is a Hellish Magical / Netherworld whose nature being pan-dimensional realm which is High 1-B. Are both the same realm or different from each other?

And this scan is used to justified High 1-B one. I think it cant be used as "All Realities" probably refer to Omniverse where you can accesed every universe. Even if its not, then it will be likely Low 1-A for transcends all realities in the universe.
 
Yuhady123 said:
We have two Limbo here. One where its was the Qlippoth of Malkuth, which is High 1-A
Click to expand...
Ultima says that Limbo is just one High 1-A realm based on the Venom comics.

But that'll be covered in Part 3 of his revisions in 5 years.
Yuhady123 said:
And this scan is used to justified High 1-B one. I think it cant be used as "All Realities" probably refer to Omniverse where you can accesed every universe. Even if its not, then it will be likely Low 1-A for transcends all realities in the universe.
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Uh funny you should say that.

Because I found a scan similar to this in The Marvel Book: Expand Your Knowledge Of A Vast Comics Universe:



Basically, time functions differently in higher dimensions, though all physical events in all dimensions occur in the same causal continuum. This causal continuum is surrounded by Limbo.

So Limbo is at minimum Low 1-A due to it surrounding the causal continuum (aka hypertimeline) of all higher dimensions.

However, when I brought this stuff up (since it'd make the Abstracts 1-A unless the new 1-A revisions for BDE2 do it first), Ultima said that Limbo is High 1-A for your reasoning.
 
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G33kedzinx said:
Iirc the qlippoth of malkuth isn’t high-1a it’s the un-beyond, which is deeper layers into the qlippoth that is.
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The Tree Of Life and Qlippoth shared the same level of existence. While Un-Beyond was to The Beyond, Limbo is to The Neutral Zone.
Eseseso said:
Ultima says that Limbo is just one High 1-A realm based on the Venom comics.

But that'll be covered in Part 3 of his revisions in 5 years.

Uh funny you should say that.

Because I found a scan similar to this in The Marvel Book: Expand Your Knowledge Of A Vast Comics Universe:

Basically, time functions differently in higher dimensions, though all physical events in all dimensions occur in the same causal continuum. This causal continuum is surrounded by Limbo.

So Limbo is at minimum Low 1-A due to it surrounding the causal continuum (aka hypertimeline) of all higher dimensions.

However, when I brought this stuff up (since it'd make the Abstracts 1-A unless the new 1-A revisions for BDE2 do it first), Ultima said that Limbo is High 1-A for your reasoning.
Click to expand...
Which is why I brought this up, Profectus has been making profiles that scale / has connection to Limbo like this one, if we agree this both Limbo are the same realm, then it will be High 1-A. and he pretty much will be scale to it along with others. Which I think make some inconsistent there as it stated that he only being on the level as Hell Lords.
 
Yuhady123 said:
Which is why I brought this up, Profectus has been making profiles that scale / has connection to Limbo like this one, if we agree this both Limbo are the same realm, then it will be High 1-A. and he pretty much will be scale to it along with others. Which I think make some inconsistent there as it stated that he only being on the level as Hell Lords.
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Ultima would know more on that, especially since I first heard of High 1-A Limbo after talking with him on discord.

RIP Low 1-A Limbo

Funnily enough, Limbo being High 1-A would be very helpful in giving magic High 1-A potency, since the realm is stated to be entirely forged and shaped by magic.

There's other stuff, but that helps.
 
Yuhady123 said:
Dont forget The Waiting Room which Wanda carved out by using magic.
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That's High 1-A?

I was referring to stuff like Yggdrasil being made of magic, magic being across the high 1-A multiverse in all realities, and how the 5th multiverse wasn't just the creator of magic but (IIRC) was also made of it since Strange calls the 5th multiverse itself "a world of magic".
 
Eseseso said:
That's High 1-A?

I was referring to stuff like Yggdrasil being made of magic, magic being across the high 1-A multiverse in all realities, and how the 5th multiverse wasn't just the creator of magic but (IIRC) was also made of it since Strange calls the 5th multiverse itself "a world of magic".
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Yes
Yuhady123 said:
The Well Beyond The Worlds is stated to be The Waiting Room in Ewing recent runs on Resurrection Of Magneto, and it was placed beyond the multiverse taking from this twitter.
Click to expand...
 
nearly done with reading all Annihilus appearances for the Annihilus and 4-B guys revision but decided to do a quick minor revision thread for his profile
vsbattles.com

Annihilus you're the wrong kind of immortal

I'm already planning to revise Annihilus in the future but I've decided to do a quick revision for it because this part is quit baffling Annihilus is listed as having type 6 immortality with no scans of it on the profile, presumably it was meant to be type 4 since his profile already has...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
also we currently don't consider Thanos vs Hulk to Infinity End to be in the main continuity right?
 
Eseseso said:
Wait, the WBtW is outside the multiverse?! Wow!

Huh, maybe the Astral Plane being at the end of Eternity isn't contradicted.
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What do you mean by that?

Although Ewing is a contiunity guy, he might had retcon something like Overspace, its was a realm of Abstract Entity but now replaced with The Superflow and was placed in The Mystery which is beyond Eternity / The Abstract influence.
Yokoahh5743 said:
Is the waiting room on the same level as the white hot room?
Click to expand...
Nah, but its on the same level with Overspace. read the twitter if you want to know more.
 
Yuhady123 said:
What do you mean by that?

Although Ewing is a contiunity guy, he might had retcon something like Overspace, its was a realm of Abstract Entity but now replaced with The Superflow and was placed in The Mystery which is beyond Eternity / The Abstract influence.
Click to expand...
As Profectus mentioned a while back, there was a map of mystic realms in Earth-616 in this one book called "Marvel Tarot", with the WBtW being the top magic realm and the Astral Planes being one of the lower realms, which would contradict it being at the edge of Eternity.
 
Eseseso said:
As Profectus mentioned a while back, there was a map of mystic realms in Earth-616 in this one book called "Marvel Tarot", with the WBtW being the top magic realm and the Astral Planes being one of the lower realms, which would contradict it being at the edge of Eternity.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Ultima revision mostly looking at Marvel side of Science and modern thinking, which has some contradiction from Supernatural / Mythological side of Marvel.
 
Yuhady123 said:
though Ewing is a contiunity guy, he might had retcon something like Overspace, its was a realm of Abstract Entity but now replaced with The Superflow and was placed in The Mystery which is beyond Eternity / The Abstract influence.
Click to expand...
You misunderstood, in the new book it is described as the coast of the white hot room, so it is not overspace (Abstract realm), but a higher plane outside the Eternity Eight cosmos and Waiting room is High1-A

Overspace is in Eternity eight cosmos (Living Tribunal live in overspace) it not mystery

Scan
Spirits without number. Here. Pilgrims to the edge of the White Hot Room...

...these are the mutants from the Waiting Room, yes?
Click to expand...
 
Yuhady123 said:
Yeah, Ultima revision mostly looking at Marvel side of Science and modern thinking, which has some contradiction from Supernatural / Mythological side of Marvel.
Click to expand...
Part 3 is supposed to look at the mystic and mythic side of the cosmology. Of course we have no idea when or if part 3 will ever come out.
 
Hirotoswnn1x said:
You misunderstood, in the new book it is described as the coast of the white hot room, so it is not overspace (Abstract realm), but a higher plane outside the Eternity Eight cosmos and Waiting room is High1-A

Overspace is in Eternity eight cosmos (Living Tribunal live in overspace) it not mystery

Scan
Click to expand...
I'm talking about the Resurrection Of Magneto latest run. Overspace had evidence for being outside the multiverse... and no... Living Tribunal reside on The Superflow which is still in Eternity.

Interesting, whats the name of comic?
Eseseso said:
Part 3 is supposed to look at the mystic and mythic side of the cosmology. Of course we have no idea when or if part 3 will ever come out.
Click to expand...
Probably after the next thread where he introduce tier-12 which likely take another 5 month to completed
 
Something worth mentioning about Overspace...

Under the new Tiering System, Qualitative Superiorities (e.g. R>F gaps) are contradicted when unreal beings reach more real realities through their own power.

Q: Are there any disqualifiers for qualitative superiority?​

A: The potential disqualifiers largely revolve around the aforementioned aspect of inaccessibility: A qualitative superiority is completely irreducible to anything lesser than itself, and conversely, it cannot be reached by any additive process whatsoever.

The first practical effect of this fact is that the power of a 1-A character cannot be dispersed so much that it reaches into a lower tier. Since there is no conceivable extension of any lower tier that can yield equality to a 1-A structure, neither can there be any subdivision (Even an infinite subdivision) of 1-A that reduces down into such tiers. Unless, of course, this division is somehow non-quantitative in nature (i.e. The results of the division are not actually numerical "chunks" of the character's power); however, this should be made reasonably clear by statements or through background context.

Secondly, a 1-A level cannot be attained by a process in which the lower level somehow "adds up" to itself to break through into the higher one, due to the total lack of structural continuity between the two; the higher level cannot be attained, nor expressed by, any expansions of the lower one, and therefore things from the latter cannot interact with the latter by means of their own lower existences. Put simply: A non-1-A cannot reach 1-A by appealing to another non-1-A

However, there are ways to bypass this barrier. For example, a non-1-A can be empowered by a higher entity into being able to influence things on a qualitatively superior level. This can happen either by a straightforward power boost, or by means of some innate metaphysical potential rooted in something from a higher reality. In neither case is the capability to reach into the higher level something emergent from the structure of the lower level, and therefore they are acceptable ways to get around the above hurdles.
Click to expand...
The fact that Overspace has been contextualized recently as existing on the level of Multiversal Abstracts, and you can reach it just by enlarging yourself (e.g. an "additive process" as mentioned here in the FAQ) would potentially be a huge disqualifier. I also saw some guys on the Commoners' Thread For Ultima's Tiering System Overhaul saying they wanted to downgrade the House of Ideas based on Nyx and Vision entering it and "the House just being some place in Connecticut" to which Ultima said the arguments were bad and he'd respond to them if the situation called for it.

Anyway, I was just looking into Mysterium on the Marvel Wiki and stumbled upon an interesting page:
dHyxlC9.png
Click to expand...
nQUXrqs.png
Click to expand...
Apparently, Pym Particles and Mysterium are constructed from a mineral called Kirbons harvested from the White Hot Room and greater Mystery, which resolves that contradiction in particular. Pym Particles containing the essence of the Mystery also provides extra reasoning for Hank Pym's High 1-A at maximum size justifications.
 
Yuhady123 said:
I'm talking about the Resurrection Of Magneto latest run. Overspace had evidence for being outside the multiverse... and no... Living Tribunal reside on The Superflow which is still in Eternity.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid you misunderstood. The ROM is older than this one. This is the latest information I have that the Waiting room is on the same plane as the White hot room.

Yuhady123 said:
Interesting, whats the name of comic?
Click to expand...
This book is Rise Of The Power Of X #5
 
Genericstickman said:
nearly done with reading all Annihilus appearances for the Annihilus and 4-B guys revision but decided to do a quick minor revision thread for his profile
vsbattles.com

Annihilus you're the wrong kind of immortal

I'm already planning to revise Annihilus in the future but I've decided to do a quick revision for it because this part is quit baffling Annihilus is listed as having type 6 immortality with no scans of it on the profile, presumably it was meant to be type 4 since his profile already has...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
also we currently don't consider Thanos vs Hulk to Infinity End to be in the main continuity right?
Click to expand...
just checked and Infinity Relativity and Infinity End are indeed not used for mainline profiles which would also include Thanos vs Hulk
damn
 
Loki's profile is a mess but "basic magic"?
vsbattles.fandom.com

Loki (Marvel Comics) (Classic)

"After Odin, All-father of the Norse pantheon, slew the evil frost giants, he discovered they hid a human-sized baby in their midst. Odin took the child back with him to the gods' home of Asgard and adopted him, under the name of Loki. The boy grew into a skilled sorcerer, shape-shifter, and one...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
Loki's profile is a mess but "basic magic"?
vsbattles.fandom.com

Loki (Marvel Comics) (Classic)

"After Odin, All-father of the Norse pantheon, slew the evil frost giants, he discovered they hid a human-sized baby in their midst. Odin took the child back with him to the gods' home of Asgard and adopted him, under the name of Loki. The boy grew into a skilled sorcerer, shape-shifter, and one...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Ikol Loki is absolutely a high-tier Sorcerer (especially as he once took Strange's spot as Sorcerer Supreme after the Vishanti got pissed at Strange and briefly gave Loki the role), but as Classic Loki's profile itself states, Ikol Loki is different from Classic Loki.

Classic Loki has his own Asgardian spells, not the standard spells.
 
Eseseso said:
Ikol Loki is absolutely a high-tier Sorcerer (especially as he once took Strange's spot as Sorcerer Supreme after the Vishanti got pissed at Strange and briefly gave Loki the role), but as Classic Loki's profile itself states, Ikol Loki is different from Classic Loki.

Classic Loki has his own Asgardian spells, not the standard spells.
Click to expand...
It's pretty bad that we don't even have a proper Loki's profile, I thought he was popular enough to get someone to update his profile
 
I have to clarify something, since I’ve seen the term “Elder God” come up quite a bit in recent CRT’s, though many of you are probably aware of this.

The Elder Gods we speak of when we’re talking about Gaea, Oshtur, Set, and Chthon belong to a specific class of Elder Gods often known as the “Elder Gods of Earth.”

“Elder God” in a broader sense is used to describe many groups of ancient deities who don’t necessarily have a shared physiology or origin. The Great Old Ones have been called Elder Gods, certain Abstract Entities have, certain Gods of Olympus and Egypt, the Demon Gods of Limbo, even the Dweller-In-Darkness.

So if you’re tiering someone based off scaling to supposed “Elder Gods,” be sure that the term is used in reference to Elder Gods of Earth, or the deity in question is listed as an Elder God of Earth on the Marvel Wiki, or “Elder God” is outright used in comparison to entities like Gaea or Chthon in context.
 
Genericstickman said:
I just realized we don't have a classic Wanda key for her profile, what classification of magic would she even get?
Click to expand...
Why would we need to give SW a Classic key?

Ultima's cosmology stuff has broken down the barriers between Classic and Modern, hence why I axed the Classic-Modern split for Shuma Gorath and also had the "Classic" removed for Dormammu's page.
 
Hirotoswnn1x said:
I'm afraid you misunderstood. The ROM is older than this one. This is the latest information I have that the Waiting room is on the same plane as the White hot room.
Click to expand...
No It's not. Jean specifically stated the crowd of mutants at the edge of WHR was from The Waiting Room. And she's not wrong.

When Ororo traveled to The WR in Resurrection of Magneto, she stumbled upon Tarn and asked where are all mutants which he answered by saying all the mutants go to their next afterlife which means The White Hote Room.

And I'm not saying Overspace and Waiting Room are in the same plane but exist on same level of existence.
 
I was just looking over our magic pages, and noticed this:
Even Advanced Sealing: Doctor Strange, with the support of Clea and Rintrah, sealed away the Fear Lord D'Spayre
Click to expand...
That scan states that they're sealing him away from all human sense, sight, touch, and sound. Knowing the nature of Fear Lords:
Click to expand...
Could this be interpreted as a sort of "Abstract Existence Negation?"
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
I was just looking over our magic pages, and noticed this:

That scan states that they're sealing him away from all human sense, sight, touch, and sound. Knowing the nature of Fear Lords:

Could this be interpreted as a sort of "Abstract Existence Negation?"
Click to expand...
Maybe...just seems to me like very potent NPI and an example of magic interacting with and affecting an abstract concept.
 
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