The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

[Tomfer]

I finally finished 10 profiles entirely! I have dozens to go, but it's definitely a start!

Good job bro.

 

[Excellence616]

I finally finished 10 profiles entirely! I have dozens to go, but it's definitely a start!

Nice work .

Your love for Tier 1 characters

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Wanna see an infinite fight between a eternity mask user and Saitama or Garou

 

[Tomfer]

Wanna see an infinite fight between a eternity mask user and Saitama or Garou

Mask stomps, OPM has a rule that Saitama and Garou cannot copy above 3-A or something like that.

 

[Excellence616]

Mask stomps, OPM has a rule that Saitama and Garou cannot copy above 3-A or something like that.

Even without the rule, any argument of going above High 3-A would be NLF

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Mask stomps, OPM has a rule that Saitama and Garou cannot copy above 3-A or something like that.

The mask grants powers equal to those of the opponent, so the limits of this ability doesn't really apply, since the mask cannot grant more than the current power of Saitama or Garou. The fight would be always equal

 

[Tomfer]

Even without the rule, any argument of going above High 3-A would be NLF

But why specifically High 3-A? Why is that tier considered the limit?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

What exactly are the rules for items in versus threads? Can I make a fight with Naruto using the infinity gauntlet against Goku? And if there is a winner can it go to the profiles.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

But why specifically High 3-A? Why is that tier considered the limit?

Suppose it's because High 3-A is infinite power since you cannot guarantee his power can go beyond infinite

 

[Tomfer]

The mask grants powers equal to those of the opponent, so the limits of this ability doesn't really apply, since the mask cannot grant more than the current power of Saitama or Garou. The fight would be always equal

Doesn't matter because, in any vs thread, the mask will start as High 1-A, no matter the opponent, since that's the only tier available in the profile.

For example, Moon Knight has a Varies tier between 9-B to 8-B, he cannot fight High 8-C people since he does not have that tier in the profile, even if he has fights of that said tier. He can only fight 9-B and 8-B characters.

 

[Tomfer]

Can I make a fight with Naruto using the infinity gauntlet against Goku?

No, only in-canon wielders. That match would go to fun and games.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Doesn't matter because, in any vs thread, the mask will start as High 1-A, no matter the opponent, since that's the only tier available in the profile.

For example, Moon Knight has a Varies tier between 9-B to 8-B, he cannot fight High 8-C people since he does not have that tier in the profile, even if he has fights of that said tier. He can only fight 9-B and 8-B characters.

As far as I saw the mask has a varies rating because it copies the opponents power, if let's say captain America fights Garou, captain America will become 3-C like Garou, unless he fights a 1-A user the mask will just be the current power of the enemy

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

No, only in-canon wielders. That match would go to fun and games.

Bummer, but does it require to be in the gear section of that character? Or as long as that character used it once will it count? For example Captain America used the infinity gauntlet once in comics but he obviously doesn't have that on his profile

 

[Tomfer]

Bummer, but does it require to be in the gear section of that character? Or as long as that character used it once will it count? For example Captain America used the infinity gauntlet once in comics but he obviously doesn't have that on his profile

Only characters that have them in the equipment section, be standard or optional. I'd say that people in the wielders section can do too but in the Infinity Stones profile, they put Reed and T'Challa as wielders, so no.

 

[Tomfer]

if let's say captain America fights Garou

Before anything, please do NOT make any cap matches, his profiles is WICKED HORRIBLE.

As far as I saw the mask has a varies rating because it copies the opponents power, if let's say captain America fights Garou, captain America will become 3-C like Garou, unless he fights a 1-A user the mask will just be the current power of the enemy

Varies does not give permission to fight anyone of any tier, even tiers in-between like I said before.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Only characters that have them in the equipment section, be standard or optional. I'd say that people in the wielders section can do too but in the Infinity Stones profile, they put Reed and T'Challa as wielders, so no.

Bruh, I know America Chavez used the mask once

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Before anything, please do NOT make any cap matches, his profiles is WICKED HORRIBLE.

It was just an example.

Varies does not give permission to fight anyone of any tier, even tiers in-between like I said before.

It should in the specific circumstances of the eternity masks powers, the mask 1-A rating is of characters who were fighting 1-A opponents

 

[Tomfer]

Bruh, I know America Chavez used the mask once

After the profile of the Mask is published, you can make a CRT to put in Optional Equipment. If that doesn't affect her tier, it'll probably go through.

It should in the specific circumstances of the eternity masks powers, the mask 1-A rating is of characters who were fighting 1-A opponents

The mask will be treated as 1-A by versus rules and Saitama/Garou won't be able to copy the mask user.

 

[Eseseso]

I finally finished 10 profiles entirely! I have dozens to go, but it's definitely a start!

Excellent work my dude!

Though for the Tiger God, he should probably have Type 5 Acausality since he's on the same level as the True Phoenix Force.

In addition, he should probably have some other abilities similar to the TPF, such as:

Nonexistent Physiology (Nature 2, Aspect 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5; The White-Hot Room is in the Mystery outside all that exists,[12] in which it is even less manifest than the Beyond, which is itself less manifest than the Far Shore, a plane of pure absence that is prior to, and above, even the concept of existence[13] and of reality[14] as a whole[15]), especially since the Tiger God predates the TPF and exists beyond its reach.

Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 2)

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

The mask will be treated as 1-A by versus rules and Saitama/Garou won't be able to copy the mask user.

That makes no sense, that's literally the mask's main power, that's like saying Naruto can't use shadow clones. The mask has the potencial to reach 1-A but the mask normal state is the power of the enemy. Then why does Garou have the H3-A thing if he can't use it because he is stuck to 3-C?

 

[Tomfer]

That makes no sense, that's literally the mask's main power, that's like saying Naruto can't use shadow clones.

These comparisons make no sense and are unrelated.

Then why does Garou have the H3-A thing if he can't use it because he is stuck to 3-C?

3-C is Garou peak showed IN-CANON, the 3-A rule is a VSBattle's rule to avoid NLF, the two are also unrelated.

If you want that badly, you can go ahead and make the match when the profile is published, I'm not the one holding you back, lmao.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

In addition, he should probably have some other abilities similar to the TPF, such as:

Nonexistent Physiology (Nature 2, Aspect 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5; The White-Hot Room is in the Mystery outside all that exists,[12] in which it is even less manifest than the Beyond, which is itself less manifest than the Far Shore, a plane of pure absence that is prior to, and above, even the concept of existence[13] and of reality[14] as a whole[15]), especially since the Tiger God predates the TPF and exists beyond its reach.

Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 2)

Thanks, appreciate the feedback!

After the profile of the Mask is published, you can make a CRT to put in Optional Equipment. If that doesn't affect her tier, it'll probably go through.

Adding onto this, Doctor Strange could potentially get the mask as optional equipment since I believe he was its owner for the whole several months between Defenders (2021) and Defenders: Beyond. The only character who would have the mask as standard equipment is Carl Zota. And of course, God of Stories Loki is the mask's current owner.

That makes no sense, that's literally the mask's main power, that's like saying Naruto can't use shadow clones. The mask has the potencial to reach 1-A but the mask normal state is the power of the enemy. Then why does Garou have the H3-A thing if he can't use it because he is stuck to 3-C?

If the mask's High 1-A rating would stunt its matchup potential that much, maybe I could change its rating to Varies, from 10-B, up to High 1-A with reactive evolution? Either way, couldn't you start a match with the battle assumption that the mask's user has copied their opponent before fully engaging?

 

[Tomfer]

maybe I could change its rating to Varies, from 10-B, up to High 1-A with reactive evolution? Either way, couldn't you start a match with the battle assumption that the mask's user has copied their opponent before fully engaging?

You'll need to show 10-B feats, and even with that, you cannot fight characters with tiers in-between those. Only 10-B or High 1-A matches.

"Even if a character has the potential to reach a certain tier, the use of any tier between that tier and the one it scales to is not allowed. For example, Avatar of Calamity cannot be used in a vs thread with a tier between High 7-A and 2-A or Unknown and 2-A depending on the used key."

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

3-C is Garou peak showed IN-CANON, the 3-A rule is a VSBattle's rule to avoid NLF, the two are also unrelated.

If you want that badly, you can go ahead and make the match when the profile is published, I'm not the one holding you back, lmao.

It's not about wanting that badly I just think it makes no sense.

If the mask's High 1-A rating would stunt its matchup potential that much, maybe I could change its rating to Varies, from 10-B, up to High 1-A with reactive evolution?

Technically true, if a 10-B uses the mask he can fight High 1-A that's fun to think about

Either way, couldn't you start a match with the battle assumption that the mask's user has copied their opponent before fully engaging?

I don't think it matters the mask copies the opponent, there is no time delay so I don't see a point in "copying before the fight", also the reason I even mentioned this fight it's because the mask basically nulls Garou's reactive evolution, because he can't ever be superior to the mask so unless the mask copies Garou's powers constantly everytime he evolves there is no point in making this fight

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

You'll need to show 10-B feats, and even with that, you cannot fight characters with tiers in-between those. Only 10-B or High 1-A matches.

"Even if a character has the potential to reach a certain tier, the use of any tier between that tier and the one it scales to is not allowed. For example, Avatar of Calamity cannot be used in a vs thread with a tier between High 7-A and 2-A or Unknown and 2-A depending on the used key."

I don't think this rules takes this specific circunstance into account, also that rules doesn't really take "varies" into account either

 

[Antvasima]

Can we skip featuring Cal-Horra? He doesn't make any sense as a character as the hack writer who created him wantonly destroyed the wonderful continuity that Al Ewing had created for the Celestials and The Beyonders, and the great setup that Ewing created for the original Beyonder after the latter broke free of the story of The One Above All was also wantonly ignored and destroyed for no good reason.

The more we and other indexing sites ignore that abomination, the greater the chance that other writers will also consider that story out of continuity, or retcon it as a hallucination, or somesuch.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Can we skip featuring Cal-Horra? He doesn't make any sense as a character as the hack writer who created him wantonly destroyed the wonderful continuity that Al Ewing had created for the Celestials and The Beyonders, and the great setup that Ewing created for the original Beyonder after the latter broke free of the story of The One Above All was also wantonly ignored and destroyed for no good reason.

The more we and other indexing sites ignore that abomination, the greater the chance that other writers will also consider that story out of continuity, or retcon it as a hallucination, or somesuch.

Sure. Honestly speaking, I was pretty annoyed after reading that full run because of how dirty they did The Beyonder.

 

[Hirotoswnn1x]

I finally finished 10 profiles entirely! I have dozens to go, but it's definitely a start!

Eternity mask should have amp ? Chavez can scale equal taaia phoenix and beyonder

 

[Yuhady123]

Another evidence for The House of Ideas and Toaa being on meta-narrative level. When Vision attempt to banish Nyx, he is drawn similar to Human Torch from Marvel Comics (1939).

 

[Eseseso]

After looking at Storm's profile, considering her speed section flat out mentions her dodging Cyclops's optic beams (which are SoL) as well as reacting to Quicksilver (who is FTL), I very much think her speed should be upgraded accordingly, or at least her reaction speed.

Her being slower on this wiki than Korra is absurd.

 

[Antvasima]

After looking at Storm's profile, considering her speed section flat out mentions her dodging Cyclops's optic beams (which are SoL) as well as reacting to Quicksilver (who is FTL), I very much think her speed should be upgraded accordingly, or at least her reaction speed.

Her being slower on this wiki than Korra is absurd.

That seems reasonable, but we likely need calculations for the feats.

 

[Eseseso]

That seems reasonable, but we likely need calculations for the feats.

Maybe for the optic beam stuff, but her reacting to Quicksilver is just scaling.

 

[Tomfer]

Scaling Storm to Quicksilver seems a bit iffy to me, maybe if you calculate the beam stuff and the value is also FTL (or closer to it), then maybe it can work.

 

[Eseseso]

Sadly I really don't do calcs.

 

[Excellence616]

After looking at Storm's profile, considering her speed section flat out mentions her dodging Cyclops's optic beams (which are SoL) as well as reacting to Quicksilver (who is FTL), I very much think her speed should be upgraded accordingly, or at least her reaction speed.

Her being slower on this wiki than Korra is absurd.

Scaling Storm to Quicksilver seems a bit iffy to me, maybe if you calculate the beam stuff and the value is also FTL (or closer to it), then maybe it can work.

Yeah

 

[AcidSilver]

I am mainly referring to that the X-Men have let many irredeemably satanically evil psychopathic and genocidal characters who are morally comparable to some of the absolutely worst people in real world human history into the leadership of their team, including Apocalypse, Mister Sinister, Mystique, and Sebastian Shaw,

They kind of have to do that if they wanted Krakoa to exist. Shaw basically bankrolled them and used his connections to sell their pharmaceuticals, Sinister was responsible for supplying all of the DNA to make resurrection possible, and the others like Apocalypse and Mystique were placed on the council because it gave them a reason to be invested in Krakoa's success while also being outnumbered by the X-Men when it came to voting.

 

[Tomfer]

Sadly I really don't do calcs.

I wish I did. If I knew how, I'd be almost a calculation group member but only for the marvel verse, lmao.

 

[Antvasima]

They kind of have to do that if they wanted Krakoa to exist. Shaw basically bankrolled them and used his connections to sell their pharmaceuticals, Sinister was responsible for supplying all of the DNA to make resurrection possible, and the others like Apocalypse and Mystique were placed on the council because it gave them a reason to be invested in Krakoa's success while also being outnumbered by the X-Men when it came to voting.

I do not consider those to be valid rationales for including people who are morally equivalent to Adolf Hitler into their leadership. It read more like handwaves from Hickman to logically deconstruct the entire concepts that comprise the X-Men narrative (considering that they have let the White Queen and Magneto into their team earlier, who are also completely morally out there) combined with making political satire about "us versus them" ruthlessly murderous, entitled, and self-righteous tribalism.

Also, why do writers sometimes try to use Mystique as some sort of representative character for the LGBTQIA+ community? She is an extremely sadistically and casually mass-murdering, treacherous, lying, insincere, manipulative, genocidally bigoted psychopath, and gleefully degenerate serial-rapist.

How in the world is that supposed to be a good way to get LGBTQIA+ people more accepted into society as harmless and just wanting to be themselves? She reads like the most bigoted and morbid interpretation possible of the "depraved bisexual" trope.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

I do not consider those to be valid rationales for including people who are morally equivalent to Adolf Hitler into their leadership. It read more like handwaves from Hickman to logically deconstruct the entire concepts that comprise the X-Men narrative (considering that they have let the White Queen and Magneto into their team earlier, who are also completely morally out there) combined with making political satire about "us versus them" ruthlessly murderous, entitled, and self-righteous tribalism.

Also, why do writers sometimes try to use Mystique as some sort of representative character for the LGBTQIA+ community? She is an extremely sadistically and casually mass-murdering, treacherous, lying, insincere, manipulative, genocidally bigoted psychopath, and gleefull degenerate serial-rapist.

How in the world is that supposed to be a good way to get LGBTQIA+ people more accepted into society as harmless and just wanting to be themselves? She reads like the most bigoted and morbid interpretation possible of the "depraved bisexual" trope.

My guess is that Hickman wanted to make krakoa more realistic in its poltics and how countries work. Horrible people in real life and have gotten away and been offered positions of power due to their skills (e.g operation paperclip)so he probably wanted to include that in his story.

 

[Antvasima]

Possibly, yes, but I think it was intended to be satire, both of the worst excesses of real world politics and tribalism, and as a deconstruction of many of the flaws of the entire concept of the X-Men themselves.

I mean, even Chris Claremont recurrently read like an unintentional parody, given how he very blatantly heavily lived out his torturing amoral supremacist female dominatrix in fetish wear fantasies through much of his old work with the comic book. Not exactly healthy concepts to place into the minds of millions of children.